Okay, so, as everyone who's perused the mecha thread knows, I'm a big ZoE fan.
And I know some folks who are likewise Zone of the Enders fans, who are also SR3 players. Now, the SR3 rules are the best for anything, IMO. So...
How would you go about retooling the SR3 ruleset to function for Orbital Frames? To make them function like they do in the Zone of the Enders computer game, as well as in the animes - especially the ZoE: Dolores, i anime.
Things I'm thinking need to be thunk of:
Melee combat between Frames quite often winds up with each attack being parried by the opponant. In SR3 rules, an opponant who scores more melee successes than you deals melee damage to you. How could I change the rules to reflect that parries often happen?
Melee combat between Frames and other things typically ends in the smack being laid on the nonFrame, so I'm not worried about that. I just imagine that melee damage for a frame should start at Moderate Naval, and be ajusted by the frame's weapon? (IE: Ardjet would deal 9MN, Jehuty and Anubis would deal 12SN and 10SN respectively, with Anubis' spear having a range advantage. Vic Viper and Nephtis' fists would deal about 8LN apiece - but they have rapid-fire fists. How could that be worked in - allow them to make two strikes with each successful shot, requiring two resistance rolls?)
Frames and their shields. Those shields are all but inpenetrable. How would that work? What about the subgauge? It goes down when the Frame absorbs hits with it's shield (though it dosen't stop functioning, even if on empty,) and goes up when a frame successfully lays the smack down with it's melee weapons.
Energy weapons. They tend to be small-fry to the frames, harassment and little more. Good for making a Frame put it's shields up as a prelude to zero-shifting up his butt and letting him have it, but not good at defeating one. How can I strike the right balance - make them tough enough that you don't want to be rolling resistance from them, but not so tough that they become the focus of combat.
Full Version: SR3 to ZoE conversion?
Well, you could houserule melee combat to say that a tie in successes counts as a parry instead of a base success for the attacker. That's something I've always thought of doing, personally.
Alternatively, you could just ignore the rolls and play it out cinematically. Outside of that, I don't think you can fudge up the rules enough to make a decent Orbital Frame.
Alternatively, you could just ignore the rolls and play it out cinematically. Outside of that, I don't think you can fudge up the rules enough to make a decent Orbital Frame.
51 pageviews and only one answer?
Tanka, actually what I was thinking of doing was setting it so that a tie, or only one set of successess (two successess) in either direction was a parry.
As for fudging up the rules, I think it can be done. The SR3 ruleset is, I've found, even mor versitle than d20. What would need to go, I think, is the degrading performance for damage taken. OF fights are heroic, and their performance barely ever degrades. (And then, usually as a function of DM Fiat, followed soon by unlocking ultimate power.)
I'm just not sure how to make it so you can take as much of a beating as you can in the game, but still keep the damage codes. I think the damage meter would need to be expanded... Perhaps giving different frames multiple bars of what we know as the damage meter. IE: A DN wound to your hull would be devestating to, say, a Raptor, representing half of it's total ability to survive, but would only be 1/4th, or even 1/5th of Jehuty's, and a drop in the ocean to Zakat.
Anyway, I thought I oughta share this with you. It's the opening text I've written: "And so it came to pass..."
It is the year 2330.
In the aftermath of the Aumaan Affair, things went from worse to horrible. The Space Force came down on Mars like a hammer, despite the promise of Vice-Admiral Elena Wineburg. Fearful of another BAHRAM, the corrupt UN government whipped it's citizens into a frenzy of terrorist-fearing, siezing more and more power, and becoming more and more brutal with each step. Unwilling to become the terrorists that Earth accused Enders of being, Leo Stenbuck and Dingo Egret refused to commit the atrocities that would have been nessessary to stop the carnage.
Then came the discovery of interstellar travel. Previously, the Urenbek Catapault and compression space had been the only way to travel in any reasonable time. For interplanetary travel, of course, this way fine, as civilization (or a reasonable fascimilie thereof) spread throughout the Solar system. Now, however, it was discovered that wormholes were a reality. Naturally ocurring wormholes, of course, are incredibly rare, and the stable ones even moreso. But an offshoot of Urenbek Catapault technology, the Urenbek Stargate, made travel to other inhabitable solar systems possible.
Mankind spread throughout the stars. In the year 2210, the UN was officially renamed the Imperium of Man. It pursued an agressive, raspicous policy of expanding to find planets that could be terraformed to feed it's growing population, find vast quantities of the ores it needed to feed it's ravenous industrial machine, and of course, exploit what pockets of the all-important material Metatron it could find. Their lack of both foresight and hindsight has lead to the current embroilment.
In the year 2245, the simmering embroilment between Earthers (and now the larger "Imperials," to encompass all of those who did not live on Earth, but were loyal to the body politic of the Imperium of Man) and the Enders (now those who lived so far from Earth that they could reasonably pull and chafe against the power of the Imperium,) came to a head when the frustrated citizens of the Jihitsu colony renamed their planet "New Mars" and declared themselves openly rebellious against Earth. New Mars was in a unique position in that it was a chokepoint between the Imperium and it's newest arm. Having scuttled the upstream Stargate, they had severed the Imperium's ability to project their force onto the entire wing of the Imperium that they had severed. The other colonies in their archipellagio had little choice but to turn to New Mars - not that, in truth, any of them objected to the move. The Imperium is even more brutal than the Space Force or BAHRAM ever was. They immideately pursued a policy of fortress gating - the defensive strategy of arming and armoring their wormgates to abusurd levels, and any new wormgates discovered were immideately fortified so that anything unexpected coming downstream could be erased from the skies in a vertiable hailstorm of fire.
Soon, the Imperium found that other arms were following the example of New Mars and it's Enders, though few successfully. Those that did were usually clusters of stars that had a discernable chokepoint, and typically wound up having a backdoor into the New Martian territory.
However, the hours draw night when advanced technology will bring about an end to the Urenbeck Stargate's era of supremecy. It was only a matter of time before stargoing ships were capable of generating their own Compression Space fields, thus rendering fixed Catapaults useful for little more than throwing bulk unmanned cargo from point A to point B. It was only a matter of time before the discovery of hidden gatepoints, indetectable to the usual methods of detection (These could sometimes be detected from one side or the other, or othertimes found only by blind luck.) It is only a matter of time before someone devises a method of interstellar travel that does not rely on the Stargate network at all. And the Imperium of Man intends to crush the rebels once and for all.
But yet, there is still hope. From time before memory, there have been tales, stories. Miraculous machines from the great age of Orbital Frames, a technology now largely lost, and for the most part thought to be too expensive a concentration of Metatron in one location. The return of the Hero, Jehuty, and the other Frames that are unaccounted for has been foretold in many a spacer bar. It is a well-documented fact that even modern weaponry and armor would prove to be of little effect against a true Orbital Frame. These machines have taken on mythical aspect, as objects of reverance bordering on prayer for those who live in the outlands. It is said that when Enders collectively cry out against opression - from their traditional foes, the Earthers, or from their own home-grown tyrants, Jehuty will reappear. Will it?
This is your story. The story of the Third Runner.
Tanka, actually what I was thinking of doing was setting it so that a tie, or only one set of successess (two successess) in either direction was a parry.
As for fudging up the rules, I think it can be done. The SR3 ruleset is, I've found, even mor versitle than d20. What would need to go, I think, is the degrading performance for damage taken. OF fights are heroic, and their performance barely ever degrades. (And then, usually as a function of DM Fiat, followed soon by unlocking ultimate power.)
I'm just not sure how to make it so you can take as much of a beating as you can in the game, but still keep the damage codes. I think the damage meter would need to be expanded... Perhaps giving different frames multiple bars of what we know as the damage meter. IE: A DN wound to your hull would be devestating to, say, a Raptor, representing half of it's total ability to survive, but would only be 1/4th, or even 1/5th of Jehuty's, and a drop in the ocean to Zakat.
Anyway, I thought I oughta share this with you. It's the opening text I've written: "And so it came to pass..."
It is the year 2330.
In the aftermath of the Aumaan Affair, things went from worse to horrible. The Space Force came down on Mars like a hammer, despite the promise of Vice-Admiral Elena Wineburg. Fearful of another BAHRAM, the corrupt UN government whipped it's citizens into a frenzy of terrorist-fearing, siezing more and more power, and becoming more and more brutal with each step. Unwilling to become the terrorists that Earth accused Enders of being, Leo Stenbuck and Dingo Egret refused to commit the atrocities that would have been nessessary to stop the carnage.
Then came the discovery of interstellar travel. Previously, the Urenbek Catapault and compression space had been the only way to travel in any reasonable time. For interplanetary travel, of course, this way fine, as civilization (or a reasonable fascimilie thereof) spread throughout the Solar system. Now, however, it was discovered that wormholes were a reality. Naturally ocurring wormholes, of course, are incredibly rare, and the stable ones even moreso. But an offshoot of Urenbek Catapault technology, the Urenbek Stargate, made travel to other inhabitable solar systems possible.
Mankind spread throughout the stars. In the year 2210, the UN was officially renamed the Imperium of Man. It pursued an agressive, raspicous policy of expanding to find planets that could be terraformed to feed it's growing population, find vast quantities of the ores it needed to feed it's ravenous industrial machine, and of course, exploit what pockets of the all-important material Metatron it could find. Their lack of both foresight and hindsight has lead to the current embroilment.
In the year 2245, the simmering embroilment between Earthers (and now the larger "Imperials," to encompass all of those who did not live on Earth, but were loyal to the body politic of the Imperium of Man) and the Enders (now those who lived so far from Earth that they could reasonably pull and chafe against the power of the Imperium,) came to a head when the frustrated citizens of the Jihitsu colony renamed their planet "New Mars" and declared themselves openly rebellious against Earth. New Mars was in a unique position in that it was a chokepoint between the Imperium and it's newest arm. Having scuttled the upstream Stargate, they had severed the Imperium's ability to project their force onto the entire wing of the Imperium that they had severed. The other colonies in their archipellagio had little choice but to turn to New Mars - not that, in truth, any of them objected to the move. The Imperium is even more brutal than the Space Force or BAHRAM ever was. They immideately pursued a policy of fortress gating - the defensive strategy of arming and armoring their wormgates to abusurd levels, and any new wormgates discovered were immideately fortified so that anything unexpected coming downstream could be erased from the skies in a vertiable hailstorm of fire.
Soon, the Imperium found that other arms were following the example of New Mars and it's Enders, though few successfully. Those that did were usually clusters of stars that had a discernable chokepoint, and typically wound up having a backdoor into the New Martian territory.
However, the hours draw night when advanced technology will bring about an end to the Urenbeck Stargate's era of supremecy. It was only a matter of time before stargoing ships were capable of generating their own Compression Space fields, thus rendering fixed Catapaults useful for little more than throwing bulk unmanned cargo from point A to point B. It was only a matter of time before the discovery of hidden gatepoints, indetectable to the usual methods of detection (These could sometimes be detected from one side or the other, or othertimes found only by blind luck.) It is only a matter of time before someone devises a method of interstellar travel that does not rely on the Stargate network at all. And the Imperium of Man intends to crush the rebels once and for all.
But yet, there is still hope. From time before memory, there have been tales, stories. Miraculous machines from the great age of Orbital Frames, a technology now largely lost, and for the most part thought to be too expensive a concentration of Metatron in one location. The return of the Hero, Jehuty, and the other Frames that are unaccounted for has been foretold in many a spacer bar. It is a well-documented fact that even modern weaponry and armor would prove to be of little effect against a true Orbital Frame. These machines have taken on mythical aspect, as objects of reverance bordering on prayer for those who live in the outlands. It is said that when Enders collectively cry out against opression - from their traditional foes, the Earthers, or from their own home-grown tyrants, Jehuty will reappear. Will it?
This is your story. The story of the Third Runner.
96 pageviews and nobody but one has commented on this thread? 
Extra condition moniters are a bad idea. In SR3's abstract damage system the condition moniter represents realitive level of damage whaere deadly is the ammount of damage required kill or destroy.
Extra durability is best represented through high body, armor, and immunities.
Extra durability is best represented through high body, armor, and immunities.
Yes, but the problem we get there is that the fights are either not long at all - IE, one properly super-staged-up attack will utterly destroy even the best frame - or too long - as in, it's nigh-impossible to deal any damage no matter HOW hard you hit.
The SR3 tests I like, but the condition monitor method of determining how fragged you are dosen't really work for Orbital Frames. I'm trying to figure out how to fix that.
The SR3 tests I like, but the condition monitor method of determining how fragged you are dosen't really work for Orbital Frames. I'm trying to figure out how to fix that.
Maybe no one is responding because this is crazy/stupid. Go get a copy of BESM: Mecha and be done with it.
I'm reading, but not responding because i don't know much about ZoE.
But heres an idea, just to toss out there, given the apparent size of (most) frames, what about doinghit location monitors?
But heres an idea, just to toss out there, given the apparent size of (most) frames, what about doinghit location monitors?
You mean like BTech? That's an interesting notion. But it dosen't really fit, I think. Orbital Frames aren't really taken so seriously as 'logical instriments of war' as 'over-the-top concentrations of Metatron that may as well be magical for all that they can take a beating and keep going.'
Musashi, you can of course feel free to go fuck yourself if all you're gonna do is start flames.
Musashi, you can of course feel free to go fuck yourself if all you're gonna do is start flames.
i don't really know where the inspiration is coming from, but it seems like if you're going to have a giant robot, with multiple weapon systems and modes of movement, you could put a CM on each of those, and as each takes a D wound, it gets disabled.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Frames wouldn't do Navel scale damage. Jehuty blasted away inside of a colony and inside a space station without causing them to depressurize. Furthermore, Jehuty couldn't even scratch the navel vessels in ZOE2 with its vector cannon unless it made a direct hit to the engine.
You could create a seperate damage level above navel if you believe that such vesse
You could create a seperate damage level above navel if you believe that such vesse
Actually, Hzmarca... You didn't spend a lot of time blasting away in the air fight, did you?
Each warship is composed of several segments of the white armor plate. Yes, you CAN blast them away, using any weapon you choose - even the Shot, or Homing Lasers (I prefer the Halberd, but never enough subgauge energy.)
Also, if you hit a battleship with the Vector cannon, even another ship, you will take it down. In one blast. Try it - stand on the stern of one ship, aim at another, shift to Vector Cannon mode and let 'em have it.
And about Deimos station and Antillia Colony? Honestly, I'd say that they have bulwark and hull ratings in the obscene. Like say, 42 or something so stupid that you'd have to employ nothing short of the Vector Cannon to bust through. (Or a strategic nuke.) And only at a critical and vunerable componant, like the Urenbek Catapault.
Remember, those things are built to take punishment like nobody's bisuness. As in, asteroid impacts punishment. If you want to cause actual gross physical damage operation to something like Antillia or Deimos, bring Zakat. Jehuty can certainly destroy or disable everything important inside, but short of setting off an autodestruct or otherwise destabalizing something really huge (like Auumaan), it's not going to be capable of busting the station itself.
Each warship is composed of several segments of the white armor plate. Yes, you CAN blast them away, using any weapon you choose - even the Shot, or Homing Lasers (I prefer the Halberd, but never enough subgauge energy.)
Also, if you hit a battleship with the Vector cannon, even another ship, you will take it down. In one blast. Try it - stand on the stern of one ship, aim at another, shift to Vector Cannon mode and let 'em have it.
And about Deimos station and Antillia Colony? Honestly, I'd say that they have bulwark and hull ratings in the obscene. Like say, 42 or something so stupid that you'd have to employ nothing short of the Vector Cannon to bust through. (Or a strategic nuke.) And only at a critical and vunerable componant, like the Urenbek Catapault.
Remember, those things are built to take punishment like nobody's bisuness. As in, asteroid impacts punishment. If you want to cause actual gross physical damage operation to something like Antillia or Deimos, bring Zakat. Jehuty can certainly destroy or disable everything important inside, but short of setting off an autodestruct or otherwise destabalizing something really huge (like Auumaan), it's not going to be capable of busting the station itself.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Actually, Hzmarca... You didn't spend a lot of time blasting away in the air fight, did you? Each warship is composed of several segments of the white armor plate. Yes, you CAN blast them away, using any weapon you choose - even the Shot, or Homing Lasers (I prefer the Halberd, but never enough subgauge energy.) Also, if you hit a battleship with the Vector cannon, even another ship, you will take it down. In one blast. Try it - stand on the stern of one ship, aim at another, shift to Vector Cannon mode and let 'em have it. And about Deimos station and Antillia Colony? Honestly, I'd say that they have bulwark and hull ratings in the obscene. Like say, 42 or something so stupid that you'd have to employ nothing short of the Vector Cannon to bust through. (Or a strategic nuke.) And only at a critical and vunerable componant, like the Urenbek Catapault. Remember, those things are built to take punishment like nobody's bisuness. As in, asteroid impacts punishment. If you want to cause actual gross physical damage operation to something like Antillia or Deimos, bring Zakat. Jehuty can certainly destroy or disable everything important inside, but short of setting off an autodestruct or otherwise destabalizing something really huge (like Auumaan), it's not going to be capable of busting the station itself. |
Okay, I just did a speed run to get to the sky battle stage. A direct bow hit from the vector cannon did absolutly nothing. The only part of a ship that is vulnerable to the vector cannon is the engine.
Any really, I don't think scratching the pain job can be counted as damage. Jehuty can't cause significant damage to the battleships withion hitting their engines with the vector cannon
Hyzmarca - I'll check that later. I *KNOW* that I blasted a battleship from the back of another with the Vector Cannon and tore it up.
Though, I will grant that it is possible that I scored a long-range tag on the engine core with the cannon.
However, I can garuntee you that it's not 'scratching the paint job' as much as it is 'dismantling the ship piece by piece.' It takes awhile (but that's part of the fun,) but if you hammer all those pieces off, the ship goes down, just like if you tag the engine core with the Vector Cannon. Go on, try it. You have to get all the pieces (don't forget the ones on the underside, by the real engines, not the engine core, and the ones on the conning tower.) They do fall.
And besides, what kind of damage do they do if not Naval scale damage? They're certainly way too strong to be counted as ordinary damage scale. Jehuty can Anubis can demolish whole armored buildings in a single Burst Shot or Burst Blade.
Though, I will grant that it is possible that I scored a long-range tag on the engine core with the cannon.
However, I can garuntee you that it's not 'scratching the paint job' as much as it is 'dismantling the ship piece by piece.' It takes awhile (but that's part of the fun,) but if you hammer all those pieces off, the ship goes down, just like if you tag the engine core with the Vector Cannon. Go on, try it. You have to get all the pieces (don't forget the ones on the underside, by the real engines, not the engine core, and the ones on the conning tower.) They do fall.
And besides, what kind of damage do they do if not Naval scale damage? They're certainly way too strong to be counted as ordinary damage scale. Jehuty can Anubis can demolish whole armored buildings in a single Burst Shot or Burst Blade.
I considered this a little bit after the last thread on this same topic. Frames are inherently plot devices, and as such only need stats to compare them to other plot devices. Unless you want the frames to actually have a real chance at losing to lesser machines, just give them plot device rankings and decree that anything they strike dies.
Now, if you want them to actually need some tactics, give them hardened vehicle armor or something like that. Less that bulwark, but not by much. All their weapons count as AP to normal armor and negate the hardened factor of other frame armor. They can have the occasional Really Big Gun on top of that for the extra-dramatic bulwark piercing damage code, but most should just be in the vehicle combat range.
If you want to make a balance, first build LEV rules, then (re?)play Fist of Mars and see how the power variance is between those Frames and LEVs. Take that as the more normal Frame stat boost, and make your favorite frames twice as superior or a bit furthur.
Now, if you want them to actually need some tactics, give them hardened vehicle armor or something like that. Less that bulwark, but not by much. All their weapons count as AP to normal armor and negate the hardened factor of other frame armor. They can have the occasional Really Big Gun on top of that for the extra-dramatic bulwark piercing damage code, but most should just be in the vehicle combat range.
If you want to make a balance, first build LEV rules, then (re?)play Fist of Mars and see how the power variance is between those Frames and LEVs. Take that as the more normal Frame stat boost, and make your favorite frames twice as superior or a bit furthur.
I've never played FoM, don't have the portable system for it (was it PsP or one of the new Gameboys? I forgot.)
Secondly, we've seen from Anubis: Zone of the Enders that Phantoma LEVs can't hold a candle to a real Orbital Frame, and Vic Viper, even in the hands of the most hot-drek runner ever to pilot the best frame and with personal experiance fighting Anubis can't even challenge an S-rated frame like Anubis or Jehuty, and is of questionable value against a lower-rated Frame like Nephtis and Ardjet.
This is all, of course, assuming a competent Runner. If a Frame just gets pounded upon by LEVs without taking evasive action or slaughtering the whole lot of them, it will (eventually) die. You're probably talking something on the order of nine or ten minutes of being shot at nonstop by Phantomas.
The question is, what constitutes a 'lesser machine.' I'd stat the Vic Viper out on the same framework as an OF, but it would be on the low end of the spectrum of the manned Frames. (Batshit fast, and probably with a negative TN modifier on all dodge tests, though.)
Phantomas are a wild card. They've been seen to hold their own (for a little while) against a major assault on the likes of Raptors (and variants therof,) Naritas, and Leopardos, yet we've all seen that even Phantomas entrenched in a defensive and defensible position will be slaughtered wholesale by a true Orbital Frame (Nine-heads unit Vs. Nephtis. Wiped out with the exception of Taper, who probably did his usual thang and hid during the fight.) This would seem to put them above Raptors on the power scale, but we know that they are completely at the (typically nonexistant) mercy of any true Orbital Frame - and a Raptor can be deadly to a Frame if the runner is incompetent or extremely careless.
Battleships and their like, however, when they fire their main guns, do seem to pose a threat to a Frame, but a minor one. A humanoid frame is inherantly capable of dodging the main gun (you suck if you can manage to get hit without trying,) and their 'anti-aircraft lasers' are just homing lasers, which we know well are blocked without any damage by a humanoid frame's shields. This would suggest that battleships, like Zakat, are siege weapons intended to be employed against non-Frame opponants (static defenses, LEVs, air-superiority fighters, and other battleships.)
I woulden't expect any humanoid frame, or even the Vic Viper, to have any trouble bringing down a battleship except time. If the Frame has the Vector Cannon subweapon, it would be a simple matter to cut it in half, or blast it's engine core. If it didn't, it would take longer, but you could surgically remove the battleship's ability to project any power (blast/bash/hack/chop/stab/rip off all it's guns) and then make a piecemeal job of ruining it's superstructure until it's no longer airworthy, and consequently falls out of the sky. (Or suffers from a catastrophic hull breach in space.)
Secondly, we've seen from Anubis: Zone of the Enders that Phantoma LEVs can't hold a candle to a real Orbital Frame, and Vic Viper, even in the hands of the most hot-drek runner ever to pilot the best frame and with personal experiance fighting Anubis can't even challenge an S-rated frame like Anubis or Jehuty, and is of questionable value against a lower-rated Frame like Nephtis and Ardjet.
This is all, of course, assuming a competent Runner. If a Frame just gets pounded upon by LEVs without taking evasive action or slaughtering the whole lot of them, it will (eventually) die. You're probably talking something on the order of nine or ten minutes of being shot at nonstop by Phantomas.
The question is, what constitutes a 'lesser machine.' I'd stat the Vic Viper out on the same framework as an OF, but it would be on the low end of the spectrum of the manned Frames. (Batshit fast, and probably with a negative TN modifier on all dodge tests, though.)
Phantomas are a wild card. They've been seen to hold their own (for a little while) against a major assault on the likes of Raptors (and variants therof,) Naritas, and Leopardos, yet we've all seen that even Phantomas entrenched in a defensive and defensible position will be slaughtered wholesale by a true Orbital Frame (Nine-heads unit Vs. Nephtis. Wiped out with the exception of Taper, who probably did his usual thang and hid during the fight.) This would seem to put them above Raptors on the power scale, but we know that they are completely at the (typically nonexistant) mercy of any true Orbital Frame - and a Raptor can be deadly to a Frame if the runner is incompetent or extremely careless.
Battleships and their like, however, when they fire their main guns, do seem to pose a threat to a Frame, but a minor one. A humanoid frame is inherantly capable of dodging the main gun (you suck if you can manage to get hit without trying,) and their 'anti-aircraft lasers' are just homing lasers, which we know well are blocked without any damage by a humanoid frame's shields. This would suggest that battleships, like Zakat, are siege weapons intended to be employed against non-Frame opponants (static defenses, LEVs, air-superiority fighters, and other battleships.)
I woulden't expect any humanoid frame, or even the Vic Viper, to have any trouble bringing down a battleship except time. If the Frame has the Vector Cannon subweapon, it would be a simple matter to cut it in half, or blast it's engine core. If it didn't, it would take longer, but you could surgically remove the battleship's ability to project any power (blast/bash/hack/chop/stab/rip off all it's guns) and then make a piecemeal job of ruining it's superstructure until it's no longer airworthy, and consequently falls out of the sky. (Or suffers from a catastrophic hull breach in space.)
About the idea that I've had, I intend for the primary foes of these orbital frames to be the Imperium space fleets. These consist largely of large battleships for siege work, with space-supremecy starfighters as a shield against other starfighters and for use as bombers against capital ships left without an escort, corvettes to stave of smaller enemy capital ships like frigates, and Raptors and Raptor-deriviates to combat enemy Corvettes. The Imperium space fleets are also fond of ginormo-huge armored and armed battlestations, which would make a good interoir fight.
For that to work, of course, these vessels need to present a credible threat, but be largely ineffective against an S-rated Frame. Sure, that battleship-mounted Vector Cannon will hurt like a mother if you take a peg from it, but Jehuty has no reason to be caught napping that badly. Starfighters would be dangerous attacking as a squadron, but homing lasers can clear the skies of them in short order. Raptors, of course, resume their traditional role as the pest enemy that can pose a credible threat if you're careless.
For that to work, of course, these vessels need to present a credible threat, but be largely ineffective against an S-rated Frame. Sure, that battleship-mounted Vector Cannon will hurt like a mother if you take a peg from it, but Jehuty has no reason to be caught napping that badly. Starfighters would be dangerous attacking as a squadron, but homing lasers can clear the skies of them in short order. Raptors, of course, resume their traditional role as the pest enemy that can pose a credible threat if you're careless.
Here's what I've got so far as a start on the OF rules.
Basically, I took the advice and just made another class of damage and armor/body.
Rules Governing Orbital Frames:
Orbital Frames are a breed apart. They ignore all damage from any source that is not suffixed as Naval or Orbital Frame. Damage from Naval sources is treated as having half the power rating against a Frame, but maintains it's deadliness code. Damage from an Orbital Frame source against a target with Hull and Bulwark ratings converts to Naval damage with a damage code of two lower (minimum Light Naval), but retains it's power code. An Orbital Frame can rip a Naval target apart, it just takes time. Whereas a Naval Energy Cannon will rip a Frame apart if the Frame fails to soak the damage or dodge, which are extreme liklihoods given the shielding and manouverability of Orbital frames.
(Some Frames, such as Zakat, will be hybrids; Zakat's weapons will deal Naval-coded damage and have a Hull rating, but have OF armor.)
Any damage from an OF source is an instant destruction against any target that does not have OF or Naval rated hull or shielding.
That's not very clear, is it? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Basically, I took the advice and just made another class of damage and armor/body.
Rules Governing Orbital Frames:
Orbital Frames are a breed apart. They ignore all damage from any source that is not suffixed as Naval or Orbital Frame. Damage from Naval sources is treated as having half the power rating against a Frame, but maintains it's deadliness code. Damage from an Orbital Frame source against a target with Hull and Bulwark ratings converts to Naval damage with a damage code of two lower (minimum Light Naval), but retains it's power code. An Orbital Frame can rip a Naval target apart, it just takes time. Whereas a Naval Energy Cannon will rip a Frame apart if the Frame fails to soak the damage or dodge, which are extreme liklihoods given the shielding and manouverability of Orbital frames.
(Some Frames, such as Zakat, will be hybrids; Zakat's weapons will deal Naval-coded damage and have a Hull rating, but have OF armor.)
Any damage from an OF source is an instant destruction against any target that does not have OF or Naval rated hull or shielding.
That's not very clear, is it? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Here's what I'm planning, see.
Ordinary LEVs (the 2325 update of the Phantoma) will be using Body rating as per SR3 vehicle rules, but have Bulwark ratings, so you'll still have to bash on them a bit. Most of the weapons they carry will be ordinary damage codes, albiet high damage codes, intended for use as antiraptor/antifighter weapons. Some weapons they carry will deal Naval code damage, for use as sappers and such.
LEV V.2 (like Vic Viper, and maybe something else in that line) is the closest that the modern Space Fleet and the Enders come to having Orbital Frames. These are LEVs, but with Metatron enhancements. They use OF rules, but are inferoir to a real Frame.
Naval ships will use mostly Naval rules. Some weapons, primarily those intended as point-defense, will use OF damage codes, but these will tend to be on escort cutters and the like.
I'm still not sure how to handle Homing lasers. The only way to dodge them is to be moving faster than they are and outrun them. Maybe they should automatically generate 3 succcesses? I dunno, advice?
Ordinary LEVs (the 2325 update of the Phantoma) will be using Body rating as per SR3 vehicle rules, but have Bulwark ratings, so you'll still have to bash on them a bit. Most of the weapons they carry will be ordinary damage codes, albiet high damage codes, intended for use as antiraptor/antifighter weapons. Some weapons they carry will deal Naval code damage, for use as sappers and such.
LEV V.2 (like Vic Viper, and maybe something else in that line) is the closest that the modern Space Fleet and the Enders come to having Orbital Frames. These are LEVs, but with Metatron enhancements. They use OF rules, but are inferoir to a real Frame.
Naval ships will use mostly Naval rules. Some weapons, primarily those intended as point-defense, will use OF damage codes, but these will tend to be on escort cutters and the like.
I'm still not sure how to handle Homing lasers. The only way to dodge them is to be moving faster than they are and outrun them. Maybe they should automatically generate 3 succcesses? I dunno, advice?
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| I've never played FoM, don't have the portable system for it (was it PsP or one of the new Gameboys? I forgot.) |
Gameboy advance.
Themain character in FoM pilots a prototype Frame/LEV hybrid. I havn't played enough to know what advantages that has over a regular frame, if any.
Homing lasers could be handled by giving them a targeting pool that augments the gunnery test.
Hyz: Good call on the homing lasers.
Canonically, I'm going to ignore the FoM. The simple fact is that a true Orbital Frame is superior in every way to a LEV. They're seperate machines, and an LEV has no advantages at all, because the OF is the later development in the lineage of humanoid robots. Hybridizing an LEV with an Orbital Frame is like taking the body of an M1A2 Abhrams and grafting on the turret from a 1941 Panzer. (Or vice-versa.) It's a step in the wrong direction.
Canonically, I'm going to ignore the FoM. The simple fact is that a true Orbital Frame is superior in every way to a LEV. They're seperate machines, and an LEV has no advantages at all, because the OF is the later development in the lineage of humanoid robots. Hybridizing an LEV with an Orbital Frame is like taking the body of an M1A2 Abhrams and grafting on the turret from a 1941 Panzer. (Or vice-versa.) It's a step in the wrong direction.
*snipped* because I'm going to be re-posting this all later.
Man, the more I work on this, the more it's becoming an Opus. I'll wind up wit the rules for a lite wargame at this rate. Still working on it. Comments would be appreciated.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Man, the more I work on this, the more it's becoming an Opus. I'll wind up wit the rules for a lite wargame at this rate. Still working on it. Comments would be appreciated. |
Comment
if it's that much work to get the rules, you'd be better off pulling rules from another game, and pulling the SR universe.
But it's the SR3 ruleset that I'm using...
I just needed to make the rules handling naval craft more sensical to me than they were in SR3.
I just needed to make the rules handling naval craft more sensical to me than they were in SR3.
Just a suggestion, since it's pretty much tailor-made for what you want...
Have you looked at Dream Pod 9's RPG "Jovian Chronicles?"
Have you looked at Dream Pod 9's RPG "Jovian Chronicles?"
Never heard o' it. Why?
Here. Take a gander. Jovian Chronicles rocks. From what little I know of ZoE, Jovian Chronicles would be perfect for it.
Also, while you're there, look at Tribe 8, the best RPG nobody plays.
Also, while you're there, look at Tribe 8, the best RPG nobody plays.
| QUOTE (Adarael) |
| Also, while you're there, look at Tribe 8, the best RPG nobody plays. |
Cool concept, tried to play it once back years ago, but the game never took off.
The Eggman
Rules Governing Orbital Frames and Naval Craft:
Orbital Frames are a breed apart. As such, they require special rules to govern them; rules that may not mesh perfectly at all times with the SR3 ruleset. Please, forgive me, and make any constructive comment you can think of.
Damage and Orbital Frames:
Rules Governing Orbital Frames:
Changes to Naval craft:
Ships at Space:
(Grrr... Hate... Spoiler... Tags...)
Orbital Frames are a breed apart. As such, they require special rules to govern them; rules that may not mesh perfectly at all times with the SR3 ruleset. Please, forgive me, and make any constructive comment you can think of.
Damage and Orbital Frames:
[ Spoiler ]
Rules Governing Orbital Frames:
[ Spoiler ]
Changes to Naval craft:
[ Spoiler ]
Ships at Space:
[ Spoiler ]
TN +6(Grrr... Hate... Spoiler... Tags...)
Hello? Guys? Anybody? Any comments?
Looks about as balanced as I remember in the games and movie I have experienced of the setting. Give it a try and see if it works with some playtesting. If it does, consider preparing your work in a format to share with ZOE fanatics and share the joy.
I'm thinking that would involve working with some Adobe inDesign. Ahh, the wonders of having access to my school's graphics computers, eh?
I'm kind of working on a dual system here. The ships I want to be balanced against each other, so that you can play ships and LEVs and fighters as a lite wargame. For roleplaying purposes, when Orbital Frames show up, all bets are off. (Unless you were bright enough to bet on the Frame.)
I'm kind of working on a dual system here. The ships I want to be balanced against each other, so that you can play ships and LEVs and fighters as a lite wargame. For roleplaying purposes, when Orbital Frames show up, all bets are off. (Unless you were bright enough to bet on the Frame.)
If bad comes to worse comes to You-Losing-Your-Sanity, take the final plunge into darkness and read through some RIFT books.
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