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Aku
so i'm the GM of a sunday evening group on openRPG, and i honestly think i'm doing a pretty bad job at it, for a myriad of reasons, but that isn't my issue here.

I come from a dnd background, where it is an easy feat for me to describe some far off battle between gargantuan creatures, to give "life" to the scenario., and the appearence of a dragon isn't un-called for, flying overhead. And that is where my problem lies.

Now maybe it's because i'm under read (which i am), but i just don't get where dragons "fit". i can't personally see my self plopping them into the game (which is currently in the salish-sidhe council, due to a disproportionate number of turndowns by the team or members there of. does anyone else think that having a dragon overhead, even in the seemingly rather wild salish sidhe, let alone seattle to be...silly?
Grinder
You're not forced to let the chars encounter dragons face-to-face. The only time my groups did so was in an Earthdawn-session; while playing Shadowrun we never bothered too much about the dragons.
Saeder-Krupp may be run by a dragon, but on the low end of the scale the faceless corporate thugs of it look like the Renaruk ones.

If you dislike Seattlem just change the location, let your campaign play in another cool city. There are a lot which are described, like Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles or some european cities.
hobgoblin
i would say it depends on the frequnecy, but that realy is an issue with d&d to. if they show up to often then it becomes tiresome soon. dragons get their mystisism from their privacy. ie, seeing one fly across the horizon, much less overhead should be a one in a lifetime happening unless your living right next to their lair.

i never got a good feel for how many active dragons there realy is on the world, great or otherwise. but then that counts for the other metacritters to.

hmm, maybe i should take a new look at the critters2 pdf that was posted on srrpg.com?

but then there is a real problem with all kinds of dangerus critters in fantasy settings or otherwise. if they are as frequent as one get a feel for, then why on earth have they not overrun the settlements long ago?

ok, so i can understand hellhounds and similar sized critters slipping away but what about those that are so big that they can be spotted from aircrafts? and at the same time are very agressive towards metahumans? would not these be actively hunted? or would treehuggers be getting in the way with illusions and lethal methods?
Dog
Bear with me here, I just woke up.

Does you or someone you know own a cat or dog? Do you live anywhere but the wilderness? Good. Imagine that cat or dog getting out of the house and being lost somewhere in the community. It's likely to be an adventure for them, exploring and protecting themselves, and who knows what's around the next corner. It can probably do pretty well interacting with other cats, stealing food and defending its turf.
Meanwhile these superior creatures, humans, are wandering around with their incredible machines, pretty much oblivious to what the animal is doing. That is, until the animal manages to to do something (usually by accident) that attracts the attention of the humans. At that point, when the people turn their attention to the cat, it is pretty much at their mercy. If the cat wants to run, it can usually get away for a while, but only for as long as the people are willing to let it.

This is an analogy for humans in the sixth world, I think. The humans are like cats and dogs in the world of the immortals, great dragons IE's etc. There is plenty of adventure, intrigue and ambition just among the people of the world, but occasionally, one might do well enough or be unlucky enough to draw the attention of the more advanced (?) intelligences.

If your inquiry is about how common dragons and the like are, that's largely up to you. Greater dragons are (probably) all accounted for in the published material, and tend to work in very subtle, but brilliant ways. If the characters see one, it probably wanted them to. As a rule of thumb, I just assume that anything the PCs can think of, a dragon can anticipate.
Lesser dragons though, you can play with. As a GM, you can decide how often you want your runners to encounter them. If you are looking for ideas to justify their presence, I'll start you off with a couple of ideas:

The dragon simply prefers to live in the wild, the simple life and all that.
You could decree that in your world, some dragons are prolific, non-sentient creatures.
The dragon may have taken a liking to a particular small community in the area, or a wilderness location because it likes the magical power aspect, or the scenery, or the people there, or whatever.
It's hiding out.

The best thing about being a GM is that we get to answer questions like your however the hell we want, really.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (Dog)
DROPBear with me here, I just woke up.

Fixed!
Ancient History
If you're in a location where dragons are prevalent - say, Mt. Shasta or Denver - then you shouldn't be surprised to see a dragon at some point. In the Salish-Shidhe, you're probably not going to see many. You might still go to the zoo and visit the dracoforms there, or encounter a wyvern while camping, but that's about it.
Siege
It's like...have you ever seen a tourist stop and gawk at a landmark you've walked by every day and never paused to give it a second thought?

And in the x years I've been playing SR, I've only had a character meet an honest-to-fragging Dragon once. And that was after the game first came out and the GM was a relative newb to the world.

-Siege
Valentinew
QUOTE (Aku)
Now maybe it's because i'm under read (which i am), but i just don't get where dragons "fit". i can't personally see my self plopping them into the game (which is currently in the salish-sidhe council, due to a disproportionate number of turndowns by the team or members there of. does anyone else think that having a dragon overhead, even in the seemingly rather wild salish sidhe, let alone seattle to be...silly?

I don't think I'd call it silly, exactly. It kinda depends on how you define dragon. There are a number of dracoforms in SR. You might check out "Dragons of the 6th World."

It wouldn't be unreasonable, IMO, to have a wyvern fly overhead while you're in the wilds of Salish-Sidhe. It would be unlikely to have a dragon, particularly a great, fly over.

IMO, the dragons of SR are there to be masterminds, mostly. "Never deal with a dragon", etc. Fights are few & far-between. A dragon's main MO is long-term planning & scheming & using the "lesser" races to achieve their goals through manipulation.

Does that help any?
Valentinew
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
QUOTE (Dog @ Nov 6 2005, 10:07 AM)
DROPBear with me here, I just woke up.

Fixed!

LOL!!! biggrin.gif rotfl.gif grinbig.gif
Siege
This begs the question - how many times do your ADD players meet great wyrms like Smaug?

-Siege
Aku
well, the great dragons, i understand, i dont think my players would ever meet them, but for some reason (and i really think it's my dnd heiritage) that makes me think that lesser dragons (inlcuding other dracoforms, wyrvens and the such) would be semi-common, however, it also seems atleast semi-silly to me, within in the SR universe.

I can't explain it, i dont have a problem with elves and trolls and vampires (oh my!), but once i get to dragons, it seems to break to me...
hyzmarca
Bottled Demon - The PCs get their hands on a Horror-corrupted focus (before the horrors were fleshed out, this module was probably the first in the "Enemy" metaplot). The runners see that it is in their best interests to get rid of it, considering that some murderous prime runners are after it andthey saw what it did to the last guy who had it for too long. An adult Western Dragon, the CEO is a small corporation, offers to take it off their hands. He then attempts to use it to augment his own power becomming corrupted himself. A Great Featherd Serpent then meets to runners and tells them to get that focus back or else. This leads to a a confrontation with a rampaging, corrupt, and unnaturally powerful dragon. If the runners have big honking explosives they can survive, if not they are toast. The Geat Feathered Serpent destroys the focus.

And that is how you introduce dragons in the Sixth World. You get the PCs caught up in their power plays.

However, it is important to remember that dragons are people too. They are different than other namegivers but at their core they have the same needs and desires. If you remember that, you coud have some very interesting encounters with minor adult dragons. For example, the runners may be hired by a dragon to steal an item of great sentimental value that was taken from one of his old lairs pre-awakening.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Siege)
your ADD players

It hasn't been called AD&D for 5 years; they dropped the "advanced" one and a half editions ago.
warrior_allanon
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Bottled Demon - The PCs get their hands on a Horror-corrupted focus (before the horrors were fleshed out, this module was probably the first in the "Enemy" metaplot). The runners see that it is in their best interests to get rid of it, considering that some murderous prime runners are after it andthey saw what it did to the last guy who had it for too long. An adult Western Dragon, the CEO is a small corporation, offers to take it off their hands. He then attempts to use it to augment his own power becomming corrupted himself. A Great Featherd Serpent then meets to runners and tells them to get that focus back or else. This leads to a a confrontation with a rampaging, corrupt, and unnaturally powerful dragon. If the runners have big honking explosives they can survive, if not they are toast. The Geat Feathered Serpent destroys the focus.


you also run into them in a couple of other runs, or at least have the potential to, i forget the name of the adventure, "killing glare" i think, but if you do the punch and judy run, you run into a regular dragon, and in Maria Mercurial, it is suggested by the adventure module that you bring the enemies back, my GM likes running things from the beggining of SR and working our way up to SR4, currently running through Harelequinn and Dragon Hunt, another one, this one where the dragon hires the PC's to search into its background because it has a disturbing case of amnesia

just a few examples to look at for dragons in SR
Siege
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 6 2005, 01:27 PM)
your ADD players

It hasn't been called AD&D for 5 years; they dropped the "advanced" one and a half editions ago.

Attention Deficit Disorder players.

-Siege
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