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Gomez
Does increasing the grade of a cyberlimb effect it's capacity or the size (capacity) of cyberlimb accessories?

I am just asking this because a standard cyberlimb would have the same maximum enhancements than an deltaware cyberlimb would.
blakkie
The Deltaware limb still has the same Capacity, however it requires that all the accessories put into it to be Detaware. This is why you can have the same number of accessories in the limb for the 50% less Essense cost. Everything cost 10x as much.
Gomez
So Deltaware cyberlimb can be no more stronger than a standard ware limb. It is just more expensive and cost less essence.
Gothic Rose
Ayup. The point of Delta is that it takes less space, Essence-wise.
Drace
As already mentioned, only thing that deltaware does is have a shorter signal range than normal cyberware, cost less essense, harder to find in scans and detectors, and take up all your hard earned money. Capacity is only increased by having a higher rating part, in the case for ears and eyes, or by having

The Major problem with Deltaware is that the bioware versions are actually cheaper in money and essense most of the time, and are just as effective and cant be found by a simple metal detector on a bad day.

e.g. Delta Wired III = 2.5 essense and 1 million nuyen
Synaptic Booster III = 1.5 essense and 240,000 nuyen

The only redeeming thing for Deltaware is when you lose a limb, and want to have something big, metal, and can dish out alot of damage when upgraded
Azralon
QUOTE (Drace)
only thing that deltaware does is have a shorter signal range than normal cyberware

Howzat?
blakkie
Er, ya. In fact Deltaware has a device rating 6 according to page 214.

Although admittedly the more you look at that table the more extrapolating Signal from it like it says to do is....curious given that Credsticks are the only other item listed at 6. Credsticks with a range of 10km? System and Firewall (and therefore Response) being top notch i get, but not Signal. question.gif
Azralon
Remind me to route my commlink's wi-fi through a credstick to get better signal push. nyahnyah.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Azralon)
Remind me to route my commlink's wi-fi through a credstick to get better signal push. nyahnyah.gif

Why the hell are you using a commlink? At 25 nuyen.gif an empty credstick makes one kickass commlink all by itself. It's even more powerful and cheaper than carrying around a maglock (Security device, do device rating 4) as your commlink....and you can pick one up at the local Stuffer Shack. cyber.gif
Drace
But don't you need an actualy commlink to have a PAN, so without one you can subscribe, or do any AR/VR actions??

The re-routing seems plausible, basically just having the Comm-Link jump the credstick's signal, but then would you even be able to pass through as much info through the credstick as you could through a commlink?
PlatonicPimp
BAH! Just ignore that shit about devices having ratings equal to their device ratings. I think what it actually says is When neccessary, assume a device has matrix rating equal to it's device rating, or something like that. That doesn't mean you can run programs on your credstick, just that if someone tried to hack your credstick, it would be treated as if it had a firewall and a system of 6. These ratings are only used when targeted by hostiel hacking attempts, it does not actually have a system of 6 for purposes like using it as a commlink. they are "Virtual" ratings.
RunnerPaul
So if I want to make a hostile hacking attempt against a credstick I have to be within its "virtual" 10km signal rating? I can live with that.
blakkie
Hehe. Like PlatonicPimp i think that those numbers in that table need a measure of adjudication for proper interpretation. smile.gif

For example with the credstick IMO:

They do not tx/rx on the standard wireless network at all. They use either an optical LOS connection or a phyiscal connection to link with them (as are the options for commlinks when acting as a credstick). I would also see them as having the Firewall 6/System 6/Response 6 stats in game terms for very different reasons than a commlink would.

They are going to be very dedicated, single purpose items. They are also going to be a uniform design for all credsticks, and the Corporate Court is going put an enormous effort into engineering these guys. As such they have little to no general use capabilities, but the few operations they do they do very, very well. By lower the demands for what they do it can actually keep them simplier, those fewer errors.

Their security flows from these things. It is extremely difficult to exploit and subvert them because they don't really do much other than transfer cash and protect themselves from tampering.

P.S. This also means that IMO you couldn't actually use them to store much data, and the credstick would actively resist any attempt to do so. You might even have to erase/break the credstick's original functioning just to use it for storage.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 10 2005, 01:02 PM)
They do not tx/rx on the standard wireless network at all.

Credsticks have had wireless capabiltiy ever since the introduction of credstick beacon rules in the Sprawl Survival Guide.
blakkie
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Nov 10 2005, 12:05 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 10 2005, 01:02 PM)
They do not tx/rx on the standard wireless network at all.

Credsticks have had wireless capabiltiy ever since the introduction of credstick beacon rules in the Sprawl Survival Guide.

I should have qualified that with:

QUOTE
They do not tx/rx financial transactions on the standard wireless network at all.


You could have physically separate circuits inside the package, like an RFID for example, but the core of the credstick purpose would not allow it. I suppose you could use that RFID section to store data? I don't see it having a rating 6 anything though. nyahnyah.gif

P.S. I don't have the SSG, but wasn't that describing registered credsticks?
Grinder
In my SR4 BBB it's stated that a cyberarm has a capacity of 1 - but most cyberlimb-add-ons like cyberguns need more capacity. Is it explained somewhere or just an error?
Squinky
Don't you mean 15 capacity?
Grinder
No, my BBB stated 1 for an obvious Cyberarm at p. 336.
Wireknight
I always thought that one of the most awesome (probably) unintended results of the quick-and-dirty "Signal as device rating" rule was that you can hack a deltagrade cyborg's systems from the suburbs when he's walking around the city core.
Fortune
QUOTE (Grinder)
No, my BBB stated 1 for an obvious Cyberarm at p. 336.

Mine clearly lists an Obvious Cyberarm's capacity as 15, and its Essense cost as 1.
Darkness
The printed book has still errors. The PDF is already corrected.

Those with the book may note, that the table-headers on page 336 are wrong. It lists Essence on top of the names, while the Cost Column has no header.. You must offset the headers one column to the right to get it right.
Fortune
QUOTE (Darkness)
The printed book has still errors. The PDF is already corrected.

The only corrections to the PDF so far are those listed in the errata on FanPro's site. There are still quite a few errors in the second pdf release.
blakkie
QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 21 2005, 10:48 AM)
QUOTE (Darkness @ Nov 22 2005, 02:10 AM)
The printed book has still errors. The PDF is already corrected.

The only corrections to the PDF so far are those listed in the errata on FanPro's site. There are still quite a few errors in the second pdf release.

There are more than that fixed in the PDF. I just noticed that the offical errata on SRRPG doesn't list that table on page 336, but it definately is fixed in the PDF.

Certainly not ALL errors are fixed though. wink.gif For example the spirit stats that have been errataed in German haven't been.
Darkness
QUOTE (blakkie)
Certainly not ALL errors are fixed though. wink.gif For example the spirit stats that have been errataed in German haven't been.

Yeah. I'm still waiting for an official second american release of an errate for that. The german FanPro branch has done strange rule twists in the past. And i simply don't trust them on these things anymore . nyahnyah.gif
But thats just my prejudice. spin.gif
Grinder
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 21 2005, 08:13 PM)
No, my BBB stated 1 for an obvious Cyberarm at p. 336.

Mine clearly lists an Obvious Cyberarm's capacity as 15, and its Essense cost as 1.

Mine doesn't. Would you be so nice and post the capacities of the other limbs as well? Would help me a lot smile.gif
Darkness
Read my post further above. The table headers are off. The values are listed though.
Values listed are as follows from the left to the right:
Cyberlimb - Essence - Capacity - Availability - Cost.

In the printed book the headers are ordered as this:

Cyberlimbs
Essence - Capacity - Availability - Cost

As you may see, the Essence header slipped below the Cyberlimb header. All values are available (You may have noticed, that there is no header above the Nuyen values wink.gif ). There is no need to list them here.
Fortune
QUOTE (Grinder)
Would you be so nice and post the capacities of the other limbs as well? Would help me a lot smile.gif

No problem ...

Obvious Limbs

Full Arm - 1 Essence - 15 Capacity - 4 Availability - 15,000
Full Leg - 1 Essence - 20 Capacity - 4 Availability -15,000
Hand/Foot - 0.25 Essence - 4 Capacity - 2 Availability -5,000
Lower Arm - 0.45 Essence - 10 Capacity - 4 Availability -10,000
Lower Leg - 0.45 Essence - 12 Capacity - 4 Availability -10,000
Torso - 1.5 Essence - 10 Capacity - 12 Availability -20,000
Skull - 0.75 Essence - 4 Capacity - 16 Availability - 10,000

Synthetic Limbs

Full Arm - 1 Essence - 8 Capacity - 4 Availability - 20,000
Full Leg - 1 Essence - 10 Capacity - 4 Availability - 20,000
Hand/Foot - 0.25 Essence - 2 Capacity - 2 Availability - 6,000
Lower Arm - 0.45 Essence - 5 Capacity - 4 Availability - 12,000
Lower Leg - 0.45 Essence - 6 Capacity - 4 Availability - 12,000
Torso - 1.5 Essence - 5 Capacity - 12 Availability - 25,000
Skull - 0.75 Essence - 2 Capacity - 16 Availability - 15,000
Grinder
Thank you smile.gif I'll print it and lay it into my BBB. smile.gif

@Darkness: you're right. It's so obvious, i wasn't able to understand it... wink.gif
Liper
Cleverly hidden in the open eh?
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