First off thx for all the help with my first SR4 sammy char. GM is fine with what i chose cyber/bio wise, and it will be a week before we start proper, and i need a hand with an idea i have.

Ive read a lot on hacking, and to be honest its not the sort of thing this char is really into (i mean hes not going to want to spend ages searching the matrix for stuff, or flopping around on the floor when actions going on when he could be happily giving people grief or creating large red mists of chunky salsa ) . Having said that i was reading through and thought it would be interesting to have some electronics skills that may prove useful.
Initial idea was to get the Hardware and electronic warfare skill. Reasons being that this would allow me to break into cars, bypass locks, and jam signals to security systems/make meeting areas secure etc.
Now i did realise that this would require some decent hardware and programs type stuff... but having read a lot of the hacking threads im not sure it will work at all like that.
So i suppose i have two main questions:-
1) without hacking skill is it impossible to break into cars/buildings in 2070?... i would really hate playing in the new wifi world if without a hacker present you are incapable of doing the most basic of breaking and entering stuff.
2) if you did have 2 "electronics" type skills what would be the most useful ?( doesnt have to be 2, but remember this guy is a Sammy, and doesnt want to spend lots and lots of skill points in this area)

Well, since everyone has a commlink - it makes sense that average Joe consumer would subscribe his car to his commlink. With the click of a button, the door's remote starter could warm up the engine, adjsut the seats to his saved preference, and get the heat flowing. You could also have it unlock the doors as you approach... all the same sort of things that people have today.

So, with hacking skills, one could probably hack the car's wireless, and make it start/open for you. Of course, the second the guy notices his car is gone (fairly soon if its subscribed to his commlink) Lone Star will be all over your ass, since the car is usually connected to the traffic-grid, and is constantly spitting out its data.

Of course, although there's no real reason to have physical keys anymore - since if you ever lose your commlink you're already screwed - its probably good practice to have a physical keycard somewhere (in case your commlink dies, batteries give out, you lock it in the car, wahtever). So I imagine cars would also have maglocks on them (as they did in SR3). Electronics would let you bypass those, but triggering an alarm would probably still alert the owner/Lone Star using the car's wireless connection.

So, in short, if you attempt it - bring a jammer. I'm sure you could steal a car, but I doubt you'd make it more than a few miles before the police sent the kill-codes to the car and it pulled itself over and shut itself down.

So thats it then, without a hacker a group is totally screwed, and those without hacking are nigh on useless alone when it comes to doing anything mechanical/electronic.... im not sure if i like that from a roleplaying view.

Like I said. Bring a jammer. With a decent Jammer going, the car can't rat you out, and it shouldn't interfere with your ability to start or drive the car (though Lone Star patrol cars/drones may notice a car driving around that's not connected to the grid).

I think the main idea is that there have been advances in the sort of things that keep average-Joe-consumer happy and content (and keep insurance rates down)... those who commit crimes have made advances too (which is why a hacker can still your car) but trying tricks that might have worked 100 years ago (like smashing the window and hotwiring the thing) just arn't going to work anymore.

Anotehr tactic would be to not target average-Joe-consumer (who has a sin, and who Lone Star is happy to protect from criminals like you)... steal some a car from someone else.. like some SIN-less a-hole who pissed you off, but hwo has a car under a fake SIN. He is a lot less likely to keep anti-theft protection going.. .since he won't want LoneStar to know where he takes his car anymore than he wants them to be able to find out where you took it... and he might not even report the crime since it would put his fake SIN in danger of being noticed (though he'd probably drop some Nuyen to have it taken care of by someone else).

I wouldn't suggest this, since you get a bad rep by crossing shadowrunners - and they are very likely to take it personally if you boost their ride, especially the rigger. And there is a whole bunch of ways they could track down their own car without bringing the police into it.

Well:

1) Wireless tech and commlink integration in general was bleeding-edge five years ago, in 2065.
2) The majority of cars on the road are six or more years old, and even then many newer ones won't be commlink-slaved, as people just don't need it, whatever the megacorporate marketeers say.

So you're only going to see wireless integration on the more expensive cars. Well that's fine; it's sorta like Lojack is today. Do you only see people with PhDs in computer science stealing cars today? Of course not. You just have to be a little creative, and possibly quick.

As technology advances, so does the technology to deceive it. A useful adage to know, especially in the sixth world.

I agree, except that I would mention that I recently bought a car in 2005, which is a 2006 model.

It comes with an internal cell-phone, so if its stolen, I could have it tracked down (assuming, of course, that the thief doesnt' open it up and remove the cell-phone and remove it - which any knowledgable thief would). My point being that just getting past my locks and hotwiring my car doesn't = a successful car theif TODAY.

That said, unless you're stealing 70 year old junkers in shadowrun - its safe to assume that an anti-theft package is somewhat standard - (and no, not the Rigger3 anti-theft package that amounted to HAVING locks in the first place)

With electronics you could probably disable the internal cell-phone or whatever (these were standard even in SR3)... but like Eyeless Blond said, any modern vehicle will be in constant communication with the grid-guide. Driving around off-line would register as suspiscious activity to anyone paying attention (loads of Lone Star Drones, and most traffic lights). Take a look at teh SR3 book, Rigger3 for some suggestions, but stealing a car back then was no easy task. Stealing one in a wireless world would be even tougher without some hacking ability to handle that new challenge.

i have a feel that by 2070, the cars are so electronicly controled that you can get upgrade kits for the old ones. then its just a matter of getting it installed and presto, your comlink can talk to your car.

kinda like how people install navigation systems and entertainment packages today.