in the skill automatics is listed for rifle side weapons.. but it list grenade launcher are listed for a specializations for heavy weapons is grenade launcher...
with heavy weapon pg 112 listed a weapons larger then a assault rife
i'm i right to assuming then that mean that automatics would be used for a rifle mounted granade launcher that are smaller then a rifles.
Full Version: grandade launcher add-ons
no. assault rifle mounted grenade launchers use the heavy weapons skill.
[/QUOTE]no. assault rifle mounted grenade launchers use the heavy weapons skill. [QUOTE]
can you tell me what pg or part of the book give you this Indacatson. it says that automates are any weapon smaller then a rifle... ie mounted on tripods, pintles, gyromounts or fixed emplacments... this is far from a rifle mounted grenade launcher like the ares alpha wich is both a assault rifles and a grenade launcher, also on pg 308 all the weapon all time under assault rifles as using automatics skills
can you tell me what pg or part of the book give you this Indacatson. it says that automates are any weapon smaller then a rifle... ie mounted on tripods, pintles, gyromounts or fixed emplacments... this is far from a rifle mounted grenade launcher like the ares alpha wich is both a assault rifles and a grenade launcher, also on pg 308 all the weapon all time under assault rifles as using automatics skills
So...
if someone find a way to reduce the size of a grenade laucher you think you can use it properly with some other skills because it's now a smaller weapon...
Interesting.
-Spider
if someone find a way to reduce the size of a grenade laucher you think you can use it properly with some other skills because it's now a smaller weapon...
Interesting.
-Spider
| QUOTE (adair) |
| it says that automates are any weapon smaller then a rifle... |
Canon also specifically states that Grenade Launchers (with no listed exceptions) use the Heavy Weapons skill.
ok i could under stand where you are coming from if you are trying to fire it at a arc but if you fire right at the enemy with airbust round what the dif between firing a bullet right at the target then firing a grenade right at the target .
also is not submachinegun a smaller machinegun.. by your logic you would be using heavy weapons for that submachinegun not automatics.
size does matter!!
also is not submachinegun a smaller machinegun.. by your logic you would be using heavy weapons for that submachinegun not automatics.
size does matter!!
| QUOTE |
| Size does matter!! |
...It does. But it matter most how you use the thing. I mean: shooting a grenade launcher is quite different to shooting a Submachinegun (recoil, lighter frame, etc.)
Of course you could say it depends on how you look at it, but there's no need for perspectives discussion when we've got rules...
And they say that the grenade launcher uses the Heavy Weapon skill.
Of course. If you don't like it, you can house rule it anyway you like. I wouldn't.
Cheers,
Max
(BTW, if you are resorting to grenades you don't need to be that accurate, anyway)
(Edit: Spelling)
| QUOTE (adair) |
| but if you fire right at the enemy with airbust round what the dif between firing a bullet right at the target then firing a grenade right at the target . |
By the same logic, what difference does it make if you've got an submachine gun, an assault rifle, a sniper rifle, a shotgun or a machine gun? Or a crossbow, for that matter? The differences between employing an assault rifle and the grenade launcher that's attached to it are about as great as those between an assault rifle and a crossbow.
Untrue!
Grenade launchers weren't frowned on by the Catholic Church!
Grenade launchers weren't frowned on by the Catholic Church!
Only because the modern RCC is full of pussies who don't even try to look like they want to dominate the world through force of arms.
| QUOTE (adair) |
| size does matter!! |
Indeed it does. AR <10mm, GL >20mm
On page 111 it is "The Automatics skill governs the use of personal firearms larger than a pistol, capable of autofire. . ." (Italics mine).
So we've got two problems trying to use a grenade launcher with this skill. First of all, grenade launchers are kinda beefy to class with personal firearms. Although the NRA might agree with that designation, come to think.
Even if you do consider a grenade launcher a personal firearm (and as opposed to what, an impersonal firearm?) there's still the small matter that grenade launchers aren't capable of autofire. Hence the automatics skill seems somehow inappropriate.
While it's true that the heavy weapons skill refers to items "larger than an assault rifle" and the underbarrel grenade launcher is by definition smaller, that by no means puts it in the realm of automatics. One could be a dick and require that a character take the Exotic Ranged Weapon: Unbarrel Grenade Launchers skill. One could make the same argument for a LAW rocket which is typically lighter than an assault rifle and (when closed) may be smaller!
Finally, "The Pistols skill governs the use of all types of hand-held firearms. . . ." Since a sniper rifle is hand held (how else do you hold it?) it is clearly governed by the pistols skill.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, Shadowrun 4th Edition wasn't written by lawyers. After having played a few games, I'm convinced it was written by gamers which is a damn good thing.
So we've got two problems trying to use a grenade launcher with this skill. First of all, grenade launchers are kinda beefy to class with personal firearms. Although the NRA might agree with that designation, come to think.
Even if you do consider a grenade launcher a personal firearm (and as opposed to what, an impersonal firearm?) there's still the small matter that grenade launchers aren't capable of autofire. Hence the automatics skill seems somehow inappropriate.
While it's true that the heavy weapons skill refers to items "larger than an assault rifle" and the underbarrel grenade launcher is by definition smaller, that by no means puts it in the realm of automatics. One could be a dick and require that a character take the Exotic Ranged Weapon: Unbarrel Grenade Launchers skill. One could make the same argument for a LAW rocket which is typically lighter than an assault rifle and (when closed) may be smaller!
Finally, "The Pistols skill governs the use of all types of hand-held firearms. . . ." Since a sniper rifle is hand held (how else do you hold it?) it is clearly governed by the pistols skill.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, Shadowrun 4th Edition wasn't written by lawyers. After having played a few games, I'm convinced it was written by gamers which is a damn good thing.
In SR4 it clearly states that the Area Antioch requires the heavy weapons skill (pg 310). In previous editions, the Antioch was always an underbarrel grenade launcher. IMO that pretty much ends the debate.
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