The character has the following:
1. Agility of 7
2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics)
3. Smartgun link (+2 dice)
4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2
So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice.
so is this kosher?
Full Version: Starting Character throwing 20 dice.
I just wanted to check and see if this was correct. I have a player who just built his starting character for my game; a elven Gun-fu physical adept.
The character has the following:
1. Agility of 7
2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics)
3. Smartgun link (+2 dice)
4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2
So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice.
so is this kosher?
The character has the following:
1. Agility of 7
2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics)
3. Smartgun link (+2 dice)
4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2
So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice.
so is this kosher?
Starting skill is max 6.
I'll have to look up a couple of the other details.
-Siege
I'll have to look up a couple of the other details.
-Siege
Other than the starting skill of 6 it's legit. But you could bump up impr ability pistols to +3 and still be at 20 dice.
What, no Edge?
He took Aptitude with Pistols and it says that you can start with a skill at 7.
| QUOTE |
| Aptitude Cost: 10 BP A character with the Aptitude quality is a prodigy in one particular skill. Characters with this quality may improve one Active skill one point above its natural maximum to a 7. Note that this doesn’t actually increase a skill that’s currently at Rating 6; it just opens the door for further advancement. Increasing a skill level beyond 6 costs double the normal Karma Cost (see Character Improvement, p. 263). The Aptitude quality may be taken during character creation to allow a beginning character to start with a skill of 7. If a character takes advantage of this quality, the cost for raising the skill from 6 to 7 is also twice normal, or 8 BP. Characters may only take the Aptitude quality once. |
| QUOTE (Ancient History @ Nov 16 2005, 03:29 PM) |
| What, no Edge? |
I think he only has a Edge of 2 or 3.
So if he adds Edge (lets say 2) before he rolls he can get 22 exploding dice!
With the aptitude, then yes - as far as I can tell, it's all good.
-Siege
-Siege
| QUOTE |
| I think he only has a Edge of 2 or 3. So if he adds Edge (lets say 2) before he rolls he can get 22 exploding dice! |
So he uses edge to reroll failed dice instead, and on average gets another 13 or so dice to roll.
I thought it was but just wanted to check. He is in big trouble though if he losses his pistols or runs out of ammo! 
That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else.
Glass cannon, anyone?
-Siege
Glass cannon, anyone?
-Siege
Well he does have several Faceman skills and a very good charisma. So he is not totally one dimensional. But combat wise he is pretty dependant on those pistols.
4 or 5 body with some good reaction and an armored jacket makes you survivable.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else. |
Actually a perfect example of a one-trick-pony.
Plus that specilization covers ALL semi-automatics not like the old days when you specialized by brand/type. So battlefield scavenge baby!!!
hmm. well, i see your adept, and raise you a street-sam!
Ork (20 BP), bod 7(9), agility 7(9), react 5(7), str 3(5), cha 2, intuit 3, log 2, will 3, initive 8(10). (195+20). 50 BP gear/cyberware, 5 contact, 110 skills.
Pistols 6(+2 semi-auto), Dodge 3, close combat 4, pilot- groundcraft 4, other skill 4.
wired reflex 2, lv 2 muscler toner+augmentatuion, bone desity 2. cybereyes(smartlinked), reflex recorders (pistols, close combat, groundcraft), control rig.
So this sam has 20 dice with his predator IV (9+8+2+1), 14 dice in clsoe combat with a base damage of 4P, block/parry 12, dodge 10, and driving at 14 dice before handeling/AR. with an armor jacket+helmet (9/8 ) and some dermal armor, he can get 20 dice of damage resist as well.
Ork (20 BP), bod 7(9), agility 7(9), react 5(7), str 3(5), cha 2, intuit 3, log 2, will 3, initive 8(10). (195+20). 50 BP gear/cyberware, 5 contact, 110 skills.
Pistols 6(+2 semi-auto), Dodge 3, close combat 4, pilot- groundcraft 4, other skill 4.
wired reflex 2, lv 2 muscler toner+augmentatuion, bone desity 2. cybereyes(smartlinked), reflex recorders (pistols, close combat, groundcraft), control rig.
So this sam has 20 dice with his predator IV (9+8+2+1), 14 dice in clsoe combat with a base damage of 4P, block/parry 12, dodge 10, and driving at 14 dice before handeling/AR. with an armor jacket+helmet (9/8 ) and some dermal armor, he can get 20 dice of damage resist as well.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else. Glass cannon, anyone? -Siege |
Not to mention if he gets into a firefight at a range greater than 60 meters. That's something I always work into a run if one of my players over specialize. Pistols are great for concealability and close combat, but still have a very limited role.
| QUOTE (Teulisch) |
| hmm. well, i see your adept, and raise you a street-sam! Ork (20 BP), bod 7(9), agility 7(9), react 5(7), str 3(5), cha 2, intuit 3, log 2, will 3, initive 8(10). (195+20). 50 BP gear/cyberware, 5 contact, 110 skills. Pistols 6(+2 semi-auto), Dodge 3, close combat 4, pilot- groundcraft 4, other skill 4. wired reflex 2, lv 2 muscler toner+augmentatuion, bone desity 2. cybereyes(smartlinked), reflex recorders (pistols, close combat, groundcraft), control rig. So this sam has 20 dice with his predator IV (9+8+2+1), 14 dice in clsoe combat with a base damage of 4P, block/parry 12, dodge 10, and driving at 14 dice before handeling/AR. with an armor jacket+helmet (9/8 ) and some dermal armor, he can get 20 dice of damage resist as well. |
does he have the exceptional attribute (agility), that must have cost, but I didn't see it listed? I'll have to check, but I don't think you can start with it at 7 even with the exceptional attribute.
Elves can start with a 7 in Agility, I believe.
-Siege
-Siege
I call this type of character, "manabait". Hope he has a few awakened friends.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| Elves can start with a 7 in Agility, I believe. -Siege |
I was referring to the orc with a agility of 7; which I quoted. But at looking at the character again he has 195+20 listed as the attribute build point cost which I'll assume the 20 is for exceptional attribute agility.
By the way, why does he have Improved Ability only up to +2? He could have Improved Ability up to +3. That would be 21 dice.
Better yet, he could drop the Improved Reflexes Level 2 he probably has, and scale back his magic by 1 (saving him 10 points), drop his Agility down to a more reasonable 6 (saving 25 points), and spend 32 of those BPs on getting Synaptic Boosters rating 2 (losing 1 more magic point). Now, take the last magic point you have lying around and buy an extra level of Improved Pistols and then take the extra half a power point and get Kinesics or Voice Control or something.
Ta-frickin-da. Your character just saved 3 BP, rolled the same number of dice, got extra upgradability, and a cool social bonus.
Even more hillarious if the character had a magic of six, as this setup saves you 18 Character points.
-Frank
Better yet, he could drop the Improved Reflexes Level 2 he probably has, and scale back his magic by 1 (saving him 10 points), drop his Agility down to a more reasonable 6 (saving 25 points), and spend 32 of those BPs on getting Synaptic Boosters rating 2 (losing 1 more magic point). Now, take the last magic point you have lying around and buy an extra level of Improved Pistols and then take the extra half a power point and get Kinesics or Voice Control or something.
Ta-frickin-da. Your character just saved 3 BP, rolled the same number of dice, got extra upgradability, and a cool social bonus.
Even more hillarious if the character had a magic of six, as this setup saves you 18 Character points.
-Frank
| QUOTE (Kleaner) |
| I call this type of character, "manabait". Hope he has a few awakened friends. |
Amen to that. I will see this Adept, and pit him against:
1) Magicians
2) Decently armored drones
3) Stealth-master assassin who uses any type of close combat. Especially if they're good at disarm manouvers.
4) A decker... excuse me, hacker... with agents and a penchant for remembering signature fighting styles
5) A troll with much armor
6) Police with decent abillity to spot concealed weapons
So this starting character is an ace with pistols. So what? Any number of things in Shadowrun is potentially a game-breaker, and most of the aren't based around combat. They're based around trickery, getting caught, or poor planning. And even in combat, hell... a guy with an assault rifle who has plenty of dice and recoil compensation could probably shrug off the shots and respond with 10 dice of major ouch.
The point cost for those two exceptional attribute/ability traits, plus the increased point cost for attributes that high? Not really worth the tradeoff at chargen, IMO.
| QUOTE (Gomez @ Nov 16 2005, 03:22 PM) |
| I just wanted to check and see if this was correct. I have a player who just built his starting character for my game; a elven Gun-fu physical adept. The character has the following: 1. Agility of 7 2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics) 3. Smartgun link (+2 dice) 4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2 So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice. so is this kosher? |
I can do better.
Elven PhysAd.
Agility 8(11), Automatics 7 (Assault Rifles 9)
Bioware: Synaptic Accelerator 1, Muscle Toner 2 (bit less than 1 Essence loss)
Powers: Imp. Ability (Automatics) 6, Imp. Attribute (Agility) 1 (5 PPs all up)
Contact lenses/Goggles: Smartlink, Image Link, all the trimmings.
11+9+6+2= 28 dice.
He's an ex-Red Samurai, and one of the best gunmen they'd ever seen (judging by the stats of the Red Sams in the SR4 BBB). He's also quite steathy and skilled in melee combat, thanks to his enormous Agility.
36 Karma later, and he can put his Agility up another point, too.
Whee, a "my die pool is bigger" contest!
you're just jealous because yours is so small. ooooh, burn.
Riggah, please. I've got SR3 die pools bigger than that. Word.
| QUOTE (nick012000) |
| Powers: Imp. Ability (Automatics) 6, Imp. Attribute (Agility) 1 (5 PPs all up) |
Depending on interpretation of the 1.5x Skill Cap, this may be illegal. THe jury is still out on that, I believe.
On a side note, the above Pistol-fu character is amazingly like my own Gun-Fu Adept, but he's focused in revolvers, and has a decent bit of stuff sunk into Social-fu (Kinesics, Imp Ability Etiquette)
Bah. The base Agility of 8 is the max for an unagmented Elf with Exceptional Attribute (Agility); you can't raise it with Karma. Once you're at 8, the rest must come from 'ware or magic.
Trade the Synaptic Accelerator for a 3rd and 4th level of Muscle Toner, and then trade the PP you spent on Imp. Agility for Increased Reflexes. That ups your Agility to 8 (12) without losing an Initiative Pass. Then you spend the Karma to initiate and upgrade your Imp. Ability (Automatics) to equal your base skill of 7 and you get another die, bringing it up to 30... unless your GM feels that Imp. Abil. 7 exceeds the skill cap
Trade the Synaptic Accelerator for a 3rd and 4th level of Muscle Toner, and then trade the PP you spent on Imp. Agility for Increased Reflexes. That ups your Agility to 8 (12) without losing an Initiative Pass. Then you spend the Karma to initiate and upgrade your Imp. Ability (Automatics) to equal your base skill of 7 and you get another die, bringing it up to 30... unless your GM feels that Imp. Abil. 7 exceeds the skill cap
| QUOTE (jervinator) |
| Bah. The base Agility of 8 is the max for an unagmented Elf with Exceptional Attribute (Agility); you can't raise it with Karma. Once you're at 8, the rest must come from 'ware or magic. Trade the Synaptic Accelerator for a 3rd and 4th level of Muscle Toner, and then trade the PP you spent on Imp. Agility for Increased Reflexes. That ups your Agility to 8 (12) without losing an Initiative Pass. Then you spend the Karma to initiate and upgrade your Imp. Ability (Automatics) to equal your base skill of 7 and you get another die, bringing it up to 30... unless your GM feels that Imp. Abil. 7 exceeds the skill cap |
That violates the starting availability maximums, right? Since Muscle Toner has an availability of Ratingx5, so Rating 4 has an Availability of 20.
Otherwise, you're right.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| Riggah, please. |
Oh, I have so got to use that.
My character can throw 7 dice when he shoots.
He doesn't shoot very much.
He doesn't shoot very much.
| QUOTE (Veggiesama @ Nov 19 2005, 08:08 PM) |
| My character can throw 7 dice when he shoots. He doesn't shoot very much. |
That's better than most of your average thugs and the like. So there's nothing wrong at all with seven dice.
Also, the Red Samurai Lieutenant example (best of the best) has agility 6 Firearms 5 and a smartlink. That's 13 dice for the super ultra awesome wiz supremo hero of a lifetime. That sam can shoot! So where's the challenge in the game if you roll double the dice of one of the best shooters out there? Why handle corp guards and street thugs? Go for the dragons themselves.
So the moral of the story is: Don't be a Representative of the Lollipop Guild
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