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Gomez
I just wanted to check and see if this was correct. I have a player who just built his starting character for my game; a elven Gun-fu physical adept.

The character has the following:

1. Agility of 7
2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics)
3. Smartgun link (+2 dice)
4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2

So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice. eek.gif

so is this kosher?
Siege
Starting skill is max 6.

I'll have to look up a couple of the other details.

-Siege
Lord Ben
Other than the starting skill of 6 it's legit. But you could bump up impr ability pistols to +3 and still be at 20 dice.
Ancient History
What, no Edge?
Gomez
He took Aptitude with Pistols and it says that you can start with a skill at 7.


QUOTE
Aptitude
Cost: 10 BP
A character with the Aptitude quality is a prodigy in one
particular skill. Characters with this quality may improve one
Active skill one point above its natural maximum to a 7. Note
that this doesnít actually increase a skill thatís currently at Rating
6; it just opens the door for further advancement. Increasing a
skill level beyond 6 costs double the normal Karma Cost (see
Character Improvement, p. 263).
The Aptitude quality may be taken during character creation
to allow a beginning character to start with a skill of 7. If a character
takes advantage of this quality, the cost for raising the skill from 6
to 7 is also twice normal, or 8 BP.
Characters may only take the Aptitude quality once.


Gomez
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Nov 16 2005, 03:29 PM)
What, no Edge?



I think he only has a Edge of 2 or 3. biggrin.gif
So if he adds Edge (lets say 2) before he rolls he can get 22 exploding dice!
Siege
With the aptitude, then yes - as far as I can tell, it's all good.

-Siege
Slacker
QUOTE
I think he only has a Edge of 2 or 3.
So if he adds Edge (lets say 2) before he rolls he can get 22 exploding dice!
So he uses edge to reroll failed dice instead, and on average gets another 13 or so dice to roll.
Gomez
I thought it was but just wanted to check. He is in big trouble though if he losses his pistols or runs out of ammo! wink.gif
Siege
That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else.

Glass cannon, anyone?

-Siege
Gomez
Well he does have several Faceman skills and a very good charisma. So he is not totally one dimensional. But combat wise he is pretty dependant on those pistols.
Lord Ben
4 or 5 body with some good reaction and an armored jacket makes you survivable.
Grinder
QUOTE (Siege)
That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else.

Actually a perfect example of a one-trick-pony. biggrin.gif
Magus
Plus that specilization covers ALL semi-automatics not like the old days when you specialized by brand/type. So battlefield scavenge baby!!!
Teulisch
hmm. well, i see your adept, and raise you a street-sam!

Ork (20 BP), bod 7(9), agility 7(9), react 5(7), str 3(5), cha 2, intuit 3, log 2, will 3, initive 8(10). (195+20). 50 BP gear/cyberware, 5 contact, 110 skills.

Pistols 6(+2 semi-auto), Dodge 3, close combat 4, pilot- groundcraft 4, other skill 4.

wired reflex 2, lv 2 muscler toner+augmentatuion, bone desity 2. cybereyes(smartlinked), reflex recorders (pistols, close combat, groundcraft), control rig.

So this sam has 20 dice with his predator IV (9+8+2+1), 14 dice in clsoe combat with a base damage of 4P, block/parry 12, dodge 10, and driving at 14 dice before handeling/AR. with an armor jacket+helmet (9/8 ) and some dermal armor, he can get 20 dice of damage resist as well.
6thDragon
QUOTE (Siege)
That's the catch - your player has pumped so much of his (?) character into handguns that he's going to be fragged with anything else.

Glass cannon, anyone?

-Siege

Not to mention if he gets into a firefight at a range greater than 60 meters. That's something I always work into a run if one of my players over specialize. Pistols are great for concealability and close combat, but still have a very limited role.
6thDragon
QUOTE (Teulisch)
hmm. well, i see your adept, and raise you a street-sam!

Ork (20 BP), bod 7(9), agility 7(9), react 5(7), str 3(5), cha 2, intuit 3, log 2, will 3, initive 8(10). (195+20). 50 BP gear/cyberware, 5 contact, 110 skills.

Pistols 6(+2 semi-auto), Dodge 3, close combat 4, pilot- groundcraft 4, other skill 4.

wired reflex 2, lv 2 muscler toner+augmentatuion, bone desity 2. cybereyes(smartlinked), reflex recorders (pistols, close combat, groundcraft), control rig.

So this sam has 20 dice with his predator IV (9+8+2+1), 14 dice in clsoe combat with a base damage of 4P, block/parry 12, dodge 10, and driving at 14 dice before handeling/AR. with an armor jacket+helmet (9/8 ) and some dermal armor, he can get 20 dice of damage resist as well.

does he have the exceptional attribute (agility), that must have cost, but I didn't see it listed? I'll have to check, but I don't think you can start with it at 7 even with the exceptional attribute.
Siege
Elves can start with a 7 in Agility, I believe.

-Siege
Kleaner
I call this type of character, "manabait". Hope he has a few awakened friends.
6thDragon
QUOTE (Siege)
Elves can start with a 7 in Agility, I believe.

-Siege

I was referring to the orc with a agility of 7; which I quoted. But at looking at the character again he has 195+20 listed as the attribute build point cost which I'll assume the 20 is for exceptional attribute agility.
FrankTrollman
By the way, why does he have Improved Ability only up to +2? He could have Improved Ability up to +3. That would be 21 dice.

Better yet, he could drop the Improved Reflexes Level 2 he probably has, and scale back his magic by 1 (saving him 10 points), drop his Agility down to a more reasonable 6 (saving 25 points), and spend 32 of those BPs on getting Synaptic Boosters rating 2 (losing 1 more magic point). Now, take the last magic point you have lying around and buy an extra level of Improved Pistols and then take the extra half a power point and get Kinesics or Voice Control or something.

Ta-frickin-da. Your character just saved 3 BP, rolled the same number of dice, got extra upgradability, and a cool social bonus.

Even more hillarious if the character had a magic of six, as this setup saves you 18 Character points.

-Frank
Adarael
QUOTE (Kleaner)
I call this type of character, "manabait". Hope he has a few awakened friends.

Amen to that. I will see this Adept, and pit him against:

1) Magicians
2) Decently armored drones
3) Stealth-master assassin who uses any type of close combat. Especially if they're good at disarm manouvers.
4) A decker... excuse me, hacker... with agents and a penchant for remembering signature fighting styles
5) A troll with much armor
6) Police with decent abillity to spot concealed weapons

So this starting character is an ace with pistols. So what? Any number of things in Shadowrun is potentially a game-breaker, and most of the aren't based around combat. They're based around trickery, getting caught, or poor planning. And even in combat, hell... a guy with an assault rifle who has plenty of dice and recoil compensation could probably shrug off the shots and respond with 10 dice of major ouch.

The point cost for those two exceptional attribute/ability traits, plus the increased point cost for attributes that high? Not really worth the tradeoff at chargen, IMO.
nick012000
QUOTE (Gomez @ Nov 16 2005, 03:22 PM)
I just wanted to check and see if this was correct. I have a player who just built his starting character for my game; a elven Gun-fu physical adept.

The character has the following:

1. Agility of 7
2. Pistols 7 (+2 specialization with Semi-Automatics)
3. Smartgun link (+2 dice)
4. Improved Ability (Pistols) +2

So 7+7+2+2+2 = 20 Dice.  eek.gif

so is this kosher?

I can do better.

Elven PhysAd.

Agility 8(11), Automatics 7 (Assault Rifles 9)

Bioware: Synaptic Accelerator 1, Muscle Toner 2 (bit less than 1 Essence loss)

Powers: Imp. Ability (Automatics) 6, Imp. Attribute (Agility) 1 (5 PPs all up)

Contact lenses/Goggles: Smartlink, Image Link, all the trimmings.

11+9+6+2= 28 dice.

He's an ex-Red Samurai, and one of the best gunmen they'd ever seen (judging by the stats of the Red Sams in the SR4 BBB). He's also quite steathy and skilled in melee combat, thanks to his enormous Agility.

36 Karma later, and he can put his Agility up another point, too.
Critias
Whee, a "my die pool is bigger" contest!
mfb
you're just jealous because yours is so small. ooooh, burn.
Critias
Riggah, please. I've got SR3 die pools bigger than that. Word.
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (nick012000)

Powers: Imp. Ability (Automatics) 6, Imp. Attribute (Agility) 1 (5 PPs all up)

Depending on interpretation of the 1.5x Skill Cap, this may be illegal. THe jury is still out on that, I believe.

On a side note, the above Pistol-fu character is amazingly like my own Gun-Fu Adept, but he's focused in revolvers, and has a decent bit of stuff sunk into Social-fu (Kinesics, Imp Ability Etiquette)
jervinator
Bah. The base Agility of 8 is the max for an unagmented Elf with Exceptional Attribute (Agility); you can't raise it with Karma. Once you're at 8, the rest must come from 'ware or magic.

Trade the Synaptic Accelerator for a 3rd and 4th level of Muscle Toner, and then trade the PP you spent on Imp. Agility for Increased Reflexes. That ups your Agility to 8 (12) without losing an Initiative Pass. Then you spend the Karma to initiate and upgrade your Imp. Ability (Automatics) to equal your base skill of 7 and you get another die, bringing it up to 30... unless your GM feels that Imp. Abil. 7 exceeds the skill cap
nick012000
QUOTE (jervinator)
Bah. The base Agility of 8 is the max for an unagmented Elf with Exceptional Attribute (Agility); you can't raise it with Karma. Once you're at 8, the rest must come from 'ware or magic.

Trade the Synaptic Accelerator for a 3rd and 4th level of Muscle Toner, and then trade the PP you spent on Imp. Agility for Increased Reflexes. That ups your Agility to 8 (12) without losing an Initiative Pass. Then you spend the Karma to initiate and upgrade your Imp. Ability (Automatics) to equal your base skill of 7 and you get another die, bringing it up to 30... unless your GM feels that Imp. Abil. 7 exceeds the skill cap

That violates the starting availability maximums, right? Since Muscle Toner has an availability of Ratingx5, so Rating 4 has an Availability of 20.

Otherwise, you're right.
Azralon
QUOTE (Critias)
Riggah, please.

Oh, I have so got to use that.
Veggiesama
My character can throw 7 dice when he shoots.

He doesn't shoot very much.
Akimbo
QUOTE (Veggiesama @ Nov 19 2005, 08:08 PM)
My character can throw 7 dice when he shoots.

He doesn't shoot very much.

That's better than most of your average thugs and the like. So there's nothing wrong at all with seven dice.

Also, the Red Samurai Lieutenant example (best of the best) has agility 6 Firearms 5 and a smartlink. That's 13 dice for the super ultra awesome wiz supremo hero of a lifetime. That sam can shoot! So where's the challenge in the game if you roll double the dice of one of the best shooters out there? Why handle corp guards and street thugs? Go for the dragons themselves.

So the moral of the story is: Don't be a Representative of the Lollipop Guild
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