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ShadowDragon8685

Nov 17 2005, 05:01 PM

I was just wondering something, and it hit me. Ask, of course.

How does one chamber a round in a caseless pistol? Presumably there's no slide to pull back, as you lack one because it dosen't need to eject. Right?

I think that this picture of the Pred has what looks like a slide on the back, but it woulden't be a real slide, since there's nothing to eject when you fire a caseless round.

So is this remnant of the slide of old days' semiautomatic pistols simply something used to chamber the first round?

Crusher Bob

Nov 17 2005, 05:10 PM

You also need a 'port' to clear stoppages if the caseless round fails to ignite.

hyzmarca

Nov 17 2005, 05:11 PM

~~A caseless automatic wouldn't need an ejection port.~~ It would still need a slide or a charging handle and it would still need a loading system, either oe powered by gas or by recoil.

Crusher Bob is right.

ShadowDragon8685

Nov 17 2005, 05:14 PM

Bob has a good point... You don't want to be field-stripping your piece in a firefight to clear a misfired round.

So, using the Pred in the picture as an example, it has a slide that will still eject a round if you yank it back? It just dosen't operate automatically to eject nonexistant brass?

This leads to questions. Could your Pred, say, have a "Brass/caseless" selector switch that lets you set it from firing rounds with brass to rounds without?

hyzmarca

Nov 17 2005, 05:20 PM

http://www.hkpro.com/g11pdw.htm

The internal workigns of a the HK G11 caseless pistol (never actually produced).

http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm
And the G11 caseless rifle.

~~I haven't noticed an ejection port on either but the G11 does have an ejector lever which suggests and ejection port.~~

I shoul have looked more closely at the diagam. It obviously ejects downward.

mmu1

Nov 17 2005, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Nov 17 2005, 01:14 PM)

The "slide" doesn't just move in order to eject brass - it moves because it's an integral part of the way the vast majority of handguns operate. (using recoil to load the next cartridge) Something (broadly speaking) always needs to move back, compressing a spring, in order to store the recoil energy. If you go to a system in which all the moving parts are internal, you generally end up with a much bulkier weapon. (compare even a small PDW to a pistol - case in point, the HK G11 there)

And, like Crusher Bob points out, you do need a way to eject unspent rounds in case of stoppages - and also in order to be able to clear the breech when unloading or field-stripping a gun.

As for firing cased and caseless ammo from one gun - I seriously doubt it. Caseless rounds require a different chamber design, and a more eleborate method of sealing the breech (since the case isn't present to do that), while cased rounds require an extraction mechanism... Nothing is impossible, but it wouldn't be a happy marriage.

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