Under Banishing, the only talk of drain is:
Full Version: Banishing Drain
| QUOTE |
| Banishing causes Drain equal to twice the hits (not net hits) scored by the spirit on the Opposed Test (minimum 2 DV). |
It does not say wether this drain is physical or stun. I would guess that is determined the same way as summoning -- spirits up to a force = magic rating are stun, double that is physical, and above that is impossible. But these limits aren't given, and I've been wrong guessing before. Both Summoning and Binding specifically list that the drain is physical if the spirit's force exceeds the caster's magic -- but banishing does not. Was this intentional, or a mistake?
Can't honestly say if it was an oversight or intentional.
I would say that it works the same way as other drains.
So that banishing a spirit over your magic rating is Physical drain and over Magic*2 is not possible.
I would say that it works the same way as other drains.
So that banishing a spirit over your magic rating is Physical drain and over Magic*2 is not possible.
Banishing seems pretty rushed all alround. I would think that it is supposed to work just like all other drain, it's physical iff the force exceeds the character's magic attribute.
As is of course, the only purpose of banishing is to take control of spirits that you can't normally summon. After all, Stun Bolt is more likely to clear away a spirit and causes less drain. And when you do get the spirit down to zero services there's no special advantage to taking control of that spirit over just summoning a new spirit. The drain is the same, and the only thing the spirit is likely to change on it is having lost edge and health levels vs. a new spirit.
Except... there's nothing stopping a hermetic mage from banishing and controlling a beast spirit. If it is for some reason really important to you to "catch them all", banishment is the discipline for you. It really looks like the people who wrote banishment for SR4 didn't look at the game mechanics or probability. It's as messed up as the ammunition modifiers or more.
-Frank
As is of course, the only purpose of banishing is to take control of spirits that you can't normally summon. After all, Stun Bolt is more likely to clear away a spirit and causes less drain. And when you do get the spirit down to zero services there's no special advantage to taking control of that spirit over just summoning a new spirit. The drain is the same, and the only thing the spirit is likely to change on it is having lost edge and health levels vs. a new spirit.
Except... there's nothing stopping a hermetic mage from banishing and controlling a beast spirit. If it is for some reason really important to you to "catch them all", banishment is the discipline for you. It really looks like the people who wrote banishment for SR4 didn't look at the game mechanics or probability. It's as messed up as the ammunition modifiers or more.
-Frank
| QUOTE |
| Except... there's nothing stopping a hermetic mage from banishing and controlling a beast spirit. If it is for some reason really important to you to "catch them all", banishment is the discipline for you. It really looks like the people who wrote banishment for SR4 didn't look at the game mechanics or probability. It's as messed up as the ammunition mdifiers or more. |
I don't think that's true, but... hard to say from the wording:
| QUOTE |
| Th e banishing magician (or any magician within line of sight, for that matter), can make a Summoning Test against the spirit before it departs, bringing the spirit into her own service instead |
| QUOTE |
| SUMMONING A magician may only summon the chosen spirits of her tradition |
These two are in a bit of contradiction with themselves.
Though, personally, I like your idea of using it to grab other types of spirits. However... that's not very useful unless you keep several force worth of conjuring materials in the back of your truck for just such an occasion. Otherwise, you only get to play with someone else's toy for a few hours at most.
Anyone else notice, btw, that conjuring materials have to be bought at specific force, because their availability is force dependant? Here I thought I could just buy incense in bulk (say, 12 force points worth) and figure out how to use it later.
And, as you implied earlier in your post, Stunbolt is one VERY powerful spell. A starting elf shaman (Magic 5, Charisma 7, Will 5) can cast it at force 9 and then BUY enough successes to avoid drain without even a roll. I think my shaman might start leaving his gun unloaded -- no need to ever pull the trigger when you've got that kind of firepower available for free.
For spirit types that you cannot summon yourself even if you could take over them like that you would not be able to bind them. The only [weenie weasel, no way i'd fall for it 
] argument to allow it is that you can take over them because you're not summoning. However then you can't bind them because:
] argument to allow it is that you can take over them because you're not summoning. However then you can't bind them because:| QUOTE |
| Binding is used to compel long-term service from a spirit the magician has already summoned. |
Didn't summon it? No rules for binding (currently).
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||
For spirit types that you cannot summon yourself even if you could take over them like that you would not be able to bind them. The only [weenie weasel, no way i'd fall for it ] argument to allow it is that you can take over them because you're not summoning. However then you can't bind them because:
Didn't summon it? No rules for binding (currently). |
Sorry, the banishing cheese trumps your weenie weasle. Straight from the banishing description:
| QUOTE |
| Th e banishing magician (or any magician within line of sight, for that matter), can make a Summoning Test against the spirit before it departs, bringing the spirit into her own service instead. A spirit banished and then summoned this way can later be bound as well |
Actually...
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 180) |
| The banishing magician (or any magician within line of sight, for that matter), can make a Summoning Test against the spirit before it departs, bringing the spirit into her own service instead. |
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 180) |
| A spirit banished and then summoned this way can later be bound as well. |
It's under banishing, not binding. First it says that any magician with LOS can summon the spirit, then it says that if the spirit was summoned under those circumstances it can be bound.
Seriously though, what other possible use is the summoning test after banishment? It's not like there's any advantage to having a spirit that has already seen combat over getting a new fresh and undamaged one. Unless it bypasses the tradition requirements, which it explicitly says that it does, it's just wasted space in the book.
Edit: Damn you Feshy!!!! You are too fast!
-Frank
Wouldn't that be trumped by the fact that you can summon (i.e.: use the Summoning skill on) spirits only within your tradition?
| QUOTE (Feshy @ Nov 18 2005, 01:20 PM) | ||||||
Sorry, the banishing cheese trumps your weenie weasle. Straight from the banishing description:
|
Ah, then straight to the wack-the-player-on-the-headmobile it is.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Seriously though, what other possible use is the summoning test after banishment? It's not like there's any advantage to having a spirit that has already seen combat over getting a new fresh and undamaged one. Unless it bypasses the tradition requirements, which it explicitly says that it does, it's just wasted space in the book. |
Wrong. A spirit captured in that manner can then be debriefed at leisure.....besides the delightfully cruel irony of beating someone over the head with their own stick.
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