Full Version: Yet Another Allied Spirit Topic
One of my magician characters in the campaign that I'm running had an interesting idea, but which I found no rules for. Specificaly, he wants his allied spirit to inhabit a sword, and there are no rules regarding the creation of an homunculus which lacks motor function. Are there any canon solutions to this? If not, do any of you guys have house rules relating to this?
Homunculus/sustaining focus. Bind the sustaining focus to a levitate or magic fingers spell (cast by the spirit). Tada, flying sword ally spirit.
Hmm... I may need to try that...
Hmm... I may need to try that...
Would the ally be able to see, or would it need the Sense Link power? Cause, you know, swords don't have eyes.
The ally will still be astrally active in the sword (just as with any other host for ally spirits), so it can see just fine through astral perception. Sense link is to benefit the mage-spirit combo when distance is excessive. Besides, there is nothing that states a statue's eyes perform any function when used as a homunculus.
Ally spirit rules are something I have not read up on much.
I was almost thinking something along the lines of a Power Foci that couldn't be attuned by someone else without the Swords permission, but figure that is not really what the player wants so.
The sword would be able to communicate to the welder telepathically and could only see through the welder's senses.
The Ally Spirit would be able to use its skills only if its owner would allow it temp control of the owners body and the owner would have to be wearing the sword in some way.
Any spells that it might have should also only be useable if it is being welded, except for any movement spells it might have.
Give it the Instruction skill and Edged Weapons of a reasonably higher level than the player.
To prevent the player from abusing the higher edged weapon skill to much you could give the Ally spirit Bloodlust of Pacifist Flaws.
How does that sound?
Will try to read up on the Ally spirit rules and get back to you in a couple of days after Thanksgiving.
I was almost thinking something along the lines of a Power Foci that couldn't be attuned by someone else without the Swords permission, but figure that is not really what the player wants so.
The sword would be able to communicate to the welder telepathically and could only see through the welder's senses.
The Ally Spirit would be able to use its skills only if its owner would allow it temp control of the owners body and the owner would have to be wearing the sword in some way.
Any spells that it might have should also only be useable if it is being welded, except for any movement spells it might have.
Give it the Instruction skill and Edged Weapons of a reasonably higher level than the player.
To prevent the player from abusing the higher edged weapon skill to much you could give the Ally spirit Bloodlust of Pacifist Flaws.
How does that sound?
Will try to read up on the Ally spirit rules and get back to you in a couple of days after Thanksgiving.
| QUOTE (Demon_Bob) |
| How does that sound? |
It sounds more like a benign imp in a weapon focus.
The tradition of your magician player should play a role in whether or not you allow this. Being reduced to enchanting a sword may be quite demeaning to a spirit, therefore a shaman would be far less likely to actually do this than a hermetic. Astral preservation society types could be actively hostile to the posessor of such an item. Final nasty thought what if the sword spirit goes free?
dos a spirit in a homnculus keep its 3D movment power, if so there is no need for a special movment consideration, teh sword can fly.
Edward
Edward
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| dos a spirit in a homnculus keep its 3D movment power, |
No
| QUOTE (MitS 109 @ "Three-Dimensional Movement") |
| Allies in materialized physical form can move in three dimensions, |
Although this is normal of materialized spirits, it is explicitly stated as allies can exist in either a materializing or inhabiting state.
Also:
Also:
| QUOTE (MitS earlier on that page) |
| Allies that posses inhabiting cannot materialize because they are bound to their host body. |
| QUOTE (Nidhogg) |
| Cause, you know, swords don't have eyes. |
It's clear someone never watched that Thundercats cartoon back in the 80s.
| QUOTE (Demon_Bob) |
| Give it the Instruction skill and Edged Weapons of a reasonably higher level than the player. To prevent the player from abusing the higher edged weapon skill to much you could give the Ally spirit Bloodlust of Pacifist Flaws. How does that sound? |
Sounds like you're getting into some dangerous house-rule territory. To my mind, the cannon rule regarding no skills higher then those of the summoner are not simply a game balancing issue, but a philosophical one. The game designers want to keep the debate about the nature of spirits alive - i.e. "Do they exist as separate entities unto themselves, or are they simply extensions of the summoners will coalesced into an astral form?" Having the ability to design an Ally who is better at swordplay than yourself would seem to be proof that they are separate entities.
You are of course welcome to answer these higher mysteries during the course of your games, but IMO it adds to the flavor of the game to keep Magic as mysterious and mystical as possible.
| QUOTE (stevebugge) |
| The tradition of your magician player should play a role in whether or not you allow this. Being reduced to enchanting a sword may be quite demeaning to a spirit, therefore a shaman would be far less likely to actually do this than a hermetic. Astral preservation society types could be actively hostile to the posessor of such an item. Final nasty thought what if the sword spirit goes free? |
His character is an elven hermetic mage and a huge fantasy literiture buff. Since he runs under the name 'Elric', he thought it would be a cool idea to have an allied spirit named 'Stormbringer' in a sword homunculus. If the sword goes free I hope for his sake he did some apeasing, because you're right on the money about the spirit finding it demeaning.
| QUOTE (The Stainless Steel Rat @ Nov 25 2005, 11:58 AM) |
| Sounds like you're getting into some dangerous house-rule territory. To my mind, the cannon rule regarding no skills higher then those of the summoner are not simply a game balancing issue, but a philosophical one. The game designers want to keep the debate about the nature of spirits alive - i.e. "Do they exist as separate entities unto themselves, or are they simply extensions of the summoners will coalesced into an astral form?" Having the ability to design an Ally who is better at swordplay than yourself would seem to be proof that they are separate entities. You are of course welcome to answer these higher mysteries during the course of your games, but IMO it adds to the flavor of the game to keep Magic as mysterious and mystical as possible. |
Don't agree with you on this because ---
Karma cost for an Ally Spirit skills is listed as: Initial Skills equal to creator's - 1 Karma per Active Skill point; per +1 to a skill, Karma equal to current skill rating.
This makes it possible for a Ally to have a higher skill. pg111
Skill is not just based upon knowledge but physical ability and psycological hang-ups. One person because of their body may just have a greater ability. Another person might remember a bad injury and hesitate at the wrong moment. By burning more Karma you could remove some of these problems. The creator may have just been more focused on those particular skills that day.
At the moment of Ally Spirit Creation, one could say that the creator's phyche is mirrored and split. From that instant on it is its own personality given life and by magic. Different personalities can exist in the same person and be better at something than the others are. So the Ally Spirit could be both separate and still attached, attuned to its creator the original personality.
The dangerous house rule may come into play allowing the non-self-mobile Ally spirit to posses the wearer, but considering that most Ally Spirits can materialize and aid the creator on their own I didn't see to much problem in it. Reducing overall costs by adding in flaws could be also.
The other way to do it, instead of having the Ally Spirit Inhabit the sword would be to have it Materialize as one, as well as a warrior companions and a faithful steed.
The Creator could the reach out and touch some one with his sword while the sword attacks.
Would having a Ally spirit able to materialize as Plate Mail and then wearing him be considered munchkin?
| QUOTE (Demon_Bob) | ||
Don't agree with you on this because --- Karma cost for an Ally Spirit skills is listed as: Initial Skills equal to creator's - 1 Karma per Active Skill point; per +1 to a skill, Karma equal to current skill rating. This makes it possible for a Ally to have a higher skill. pg111 |
False. You ignored all the limits on page 110 preceding that summary. It says in 2 seperate places, "the ally's Skill Rating can never exceed the ratings of its master's skills" (that concerned creation and the other for improvement) "increase the spirit's skills up to a maximum equal to the creator's skill."
| QUOTE (Demon_Bob) |
| The other way to do it, instead of having the Ally Spirit Inhabit the sword would be to have it Materialize as one, as well as a warrior companions and a faithful steed. The Creator could the reach out and touch some one with his sword while the sword attacks. |
They do not want to do that because then the ally loses the properties associated with its form. Its capabilities are then based on the ally's attributes. The creator could use the improvised attack table of using a metahuman as a weapon.
| QUOTE (Demon_Bob) |
| Would having a Ally spirit able to materialize as Plate Mail and then wearing him be considered munchkin? |
Yes, pretty much. How are you going to synchronize their movement? Are you going to have constant tests to see who damaged whom with all the little collisions?
What is the point, to get some armor bonus? The spirits form does not affect its attributes, so it doesn't add an armor bonus. If you are trying to benefit from the spirits immunity to normal weapons, many people see that power working as the normal weapon passing harmlessly through the etheral being, not the etheral being bouncing bullets. Residing within the being when the bullets come ripping through unabated is hardly going to provide any armor bonus.
Tell your player to just do his darndest to get ahold of a giant two handed black bladed sword, that's a potent weapon and power focus, rolled into one.
Because, well, it's gonna happen before his idea works.
Because, well, it's gonna happen before his idea works.
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