Does the chameleon suit only effect perception tests? I would think it would also make the character wearing it harder to hit in ranged combat. Perhaps a vision modifier equal to the perception test modifier, or at least half that. Have any of you encountered these in your games?

Assuming the guy firing the gun has made his perception test to notice the guy in the suit... he can see him. Like, you either see someone, or don't. That may mean he can distinguish the outline of the guy's body from where the suit fails to accuratly hide him or something, but at that point, the guy just aims at the person he can see, and fires - same as always.

If the guy firing the gun failed to see the guy in the suit, I'm not sure how he is choosing to fire at him anyways. Then you get into a more area-fire section of the rules, which has very little to do with the chameleon suit.

Consider a mage casting invisibility. If you see him, you can shoot him. The spell doesn't make him harder to shoot, if you know he's there - only harder to notice that he's there in the first place.

BlackHat, the thing is that the invisibility spell is an all or nothing thing. If you resist the spell, you can see the character without impairment.

With a chameleon suit, even if you spot the character, the suit is still actively trying to camoflage him/her. Think about the movie Predator. The chameleon suit may or may not be as advanced as what was in that, but it's a close enough example.

That being said, I agree with you that there probably doesn't need to be a vision modifier. An outline is enough to aim at, though called shots might be another issue.

I could maybe see giving a modifier equal to 1/2 the perception test modifer, but that is the most I could possibly see using.

Comparing noticing the guy in the chameleon suit to resisting an Invisibility spell is a very poor comparison.

Comparing the penalty for noticing the guy in dim light to comparing noticing the guy in a chameleon suit is closer. So ya, i'd likely give a penalty for ranged weapons. The full -4 dice? Likely not, call it Partial Cover instead for a -2 die penalty.

better yet, there's some first person shooter game mods that have something with the chameleon effect. Sure you can see the blur when they're moving and other such environment conditions. But it's very easy to lose track of them if they're trying to evade and then hide again. Sometimes you have to devolve to spray and pray...

My guesses:

If you can't see someone (due to invisibility, Infiltration, or whatnot), you're at a -6 penalty against him. If he's not only invisible, but you're unaware of him, then you can't even roll a defense against him.

Even though the guy is in his Predator suit, he's still making noise -- particularly if he's fighting you. Those of you with supercybersniffers can still tell he's there. If he's a sniper on a distant rooftop, then obviously nonvisual senses probably won't apply.

So an invisible assassin, if you don't notice him, can smack you without any chance of you defending. After his first shot, though, you're probably aware that he's there and can try to defend/attack at -6.

Well, it's modifier does not influence Ranged Combat at all.

Right, well ,I guess its not AS cut and dry, since you could have perception threshholds and whatnot.. .you could "sort of" notice someone, I suppose (not sure if its just an opposed roll, or what the thresholds are to see someone man-sized) - but AFAIK for targetting them with a gun, there are two states... "seen" and "not seen" (assuming good lighting and no real cover). the third state "unaware" means you probably don't know to try shooting at them, since you have no reason to believe they are there.

A chameleon suit doesn't really render you invisible, it just augments your hiding abilites by providing camoflage - so it should work the same.

If some guy is hiding in my living room by standing behind the window-drapes, and I spot him (say, by noticing his feet sticking out underneth), I wouldn't have any penalty to shoot him. His attempt to hide failed, and I saw him. So, BANG.

Same goes if he's standing in front of the drapes, but wearing a chameleon suit. Now I might not notice his feet sticking out (since they're camoflaged as my carpet), but if I still percieve him standing there, I can just shoot him. BANG, dead.

If he's running around jumping and dodging he might be harder to keep an eye on, but then he's not hiding at all - and he's harder to hit because of the movement, not because of the images of the suit. In fact, in SR3, running around made Reuthinium worthless, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore (I guess the refresh rate went up). But assuming a successful perception check, I can see him, dispite the fact that he's moving around, so I can shoot at him like normal.

My (admittadly poor) comparison to the invisiblity spell aside, chameleon suits just help you hide... and if you notice someone hiding, they're not harder to hit, at least, as I've interpretted the rules. The "Using Perception" section might have something about partial success, and related tests, but I don't think it does.

At best, there are three states "unaware that the target is there", "aware that something (the target) is there, but cannot locate it" or "have located the target".

In the first case, there is nothing to shoot at (as far as you know). In the last case, you can see it, so you can just shoot it. In the middle case, you're effectivly firing blind at something you think might be somewhere in the room.

BlackHat, there are not just 3 simple states of perceiving somebody. There are many varying degrees of perception, that is the whole reason behind visibility modifiers.
In Full Darkness and using Normal vision you can actually see somebody, you could know where they are in a general sense and that is why you would suffer a -6 penalty to hit.
Same goes for fog, mist, glare, cover, etc. These are all things that impair your ability to see the target. Since the chameleon suit does just that (impair your ability to see the target) it may be logical to have an associated ranged combat modifier.

Please keep in mind that Partial Cover in SR4 speak includes soft barriers who's benefit/penalty is primarily visual:

There's the problem - it's not independent from the silhouette of the character.

It does not obscure it - in fact, the edges will be enhanced since the picture will be wrapped around...

Maybe a lesser example would help.

If I'm in the desert and wearing desert camo, then people have a penalty to spot me. However, if I'm in the same outfit and brawling with some guy out on the open sands, he's not going to be at any penalties.

A chameleon suit makes instantly-adapting supercamo, not actual invisibility. It could be pointed out that it's not recolorizing your carried gear and you're still casting shadows & silhouettes.

If it was meant to give you actual invisibility, then it'd probably say something like "when you wear this, everyone treats you as if they're blindfiring."

Okay, we're standing in a jungle clearing. I'm wearing camo fatigues and I shoot you in the face.

You saw it coming; no penalties.

Simplicity and symmetry. My favorites!

Actually, if we're all getting shot in the face we need camo helmets more than anything.

In SR3, attacks against critters with the "adaptive coloration" power active faced a +2 TN# penalty on the success test due to the blurring effect's breaking of the target's outline and resultant difficulty discerning vitals versus extremities. Since there's been pretty much a 1:1 shift of TN# penalty to dicepool penalty, if you wanted characters with chameleon suits to gain the same benefits, I'd say that -2 dicepool would probably be a good modifier for the effect.

Almost entirely unrelated to the topic at hand, but not quite: High School Girl Sent Home for Wearing Camo Outfit

Outstanding.

Actually, it fits just as well in the "Girl Scout street gang" posts you recently made.