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jrm549
Here's an idea I've been pondering. A gun for hunting/capturing spirits and other astral figures. Potentially an active defense against mages/shamans on the astral.

The gun:

A double barrel splat gun
Grenade link (to detonate the canisters at a specific point in the air)
A top or bottom mounted gas delivery system

Worn on person:

Ultraviolet vision system (+ lighting)
Smart Link II + grenade link (all attached to Ultraviolet system)
Pressurized gas tank

What it would do:

The canisters in the splat gun would contain awakened biofiber nets, and be targetted at figures on the astral plane which would light up under UV, and be targetted with a UV coordinated SL II + grenade link system. The figures on the astral plane would be exposed due to the FAB gas which would be delivered by the gun, or already present.
The canisters would explode at the location of the figure (or just in front), and the biofiber nets would expand, wrap the figure (which would basically be solid as far as the nets are concerned) and then prevent him/her from leaving the room through walls, floor, roof, etc.
Once in that awakened biofiber net, the wielder of the weapon could either haul the astral being away, or leave it until it fades away (after Magic hours)

I'll leave this here since I'm sure the idea is explained decent enough for you to fill in the gaps in your mind, and just ask for input. Anything big I've missed? Does the gun sound like it would?
Herald of Verjigorm
A mere net of that biofiber would be pretty easy to kill in astral combat. Since I ascribe to the position that purely astral entities cannot move dual natured objects, the astral entity would have a few options when hit with the net. First, it could materialize and take whatever beating you want to offer. Second, it could stay astral and be forced to fight the net until one of them loses. Third, it can try to skip town completely and go home. Not all options will be available to all spirits. The fourth option is dependant on the interpretation of astral solidarity, as to whether the holes are big enough that the spirit can believe its way through them and avoid any danger that way.
Ancient History
...and someone rediscovers the joys of the FAB net gun.

The essential problem with all such weapons is the fact that the Astral plane operates by very different physical laws, and thus an item that seems logical on the physical plane is laughable on the Astral.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Ancient History)
...and someone rediscovers the joys of the FAB net gun.

I'm sure the hollow plastic whiffleball bats filled with FAB will be soon to follow.
Gerald Fitzgerald
Don't forget pouring cups of FAB into your gloves so you can straight beat the piss out of a Wild Hunt with your bare hands.
brohopcp
If you drink a gallon of FAB-II, do you become dual natured?
Gerald Fitzgerald
If you fill your cyber eyes with the FAB, can you perceive astral?
jrm549
haha, nice..... I'm sure the wiffle bat would garner some sort of reputation.....

but the jist is that this isn't entirely impossible, so much as just not infallible right?
fistandantilus4.0
FAB just makes it so that you can see them through ultraviolet vision, kinda sticks to 'em. Check out the entries in MiTS. Now if oyu were to make them sustaining foci with say astral barrier.....
Gerald Fitzgerald
or astral static...
The Stainless Steel Rat
FAB filled whiffle-ball bat, or swinging a Ghoul by the ankles?
PBTHHHHT
So, does it have to be a whole live Ghoul, or would his body parts also count? I imagine he'd have to be alive for maximum effect so that he's dual natured and such. But I'm just curious.

edit: oh gawd, I remember that old thread now, I even posted in it.
Magus
I think we all did and even brought it up and linked it to any thread dealing with astral combat. Classic Thread.......even legendary now I believe.
hyzmarca
If you really want to go ghost busting you can pretend that its the 80s and turn a miniature nuclear accelerator into a backpack.

But, for the perfect SR mundane-to-spirit weapon I have a few simple and easy steps that anyone* can do.


1 Get an old camera.
2 Enchant it into an anchoring focus that is activated when a photo is taken and that targets whoever is in the picture.
3 Learn the True Name of a Free Imp with the sorcery power.
4 Bind the Free Imp**
5 Teach the Imp Spirit Ball if it doesn't already know the spell.
6 Force the Imp to bind the camera and anchor Spirit Ball to it
7 Force the Imp to inhabit the camera***
8 Load the camera with high quality astrally sensitive film
9 (optional) Somehow create a mobile Astral Shallow in the camera's viewfinder or to have the Imp learn a version of Astral Gateway that allows Perception without Projection.


*Anyone who is a highly skilled enchanter.
**No not try at home. May result in serious injury and/or death.
***Not at all necessary but it is funnier this way. If you skip that step it doesn't even have to be an Imp.
tisoz
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
or to have the Imp learn a version of Astral Gateway that allows Perception without Projection.

Like the spell Astral Window?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (tisoz)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 1 2005, 12:27 PM)
or to have the Imp learn a version of Astral Gateway that allows Perception without Projection.

Like the spell Astral Window?

I thought that too, at first. I has to edit my pot because Astral Window doesn't do that. It give you x-ray vision on the astral plane but it doesn't cause you to Percieve.
JRDobbs
An absolute essential for ghost-hunting in the 6th world would be the spells Mana-bind and Mana-Net (from MitS), which hopefully will be updated for SR4. Nothing like a giant backpack fetish (do not cross the beams).
Wireknight
The issue with this idea is that it could never capture an astral being. It could only force the dual-natured payload into a force-versus-force type contest with destruction of one party being the end result.

That being said, you have to consider the "physics" of the astral plane. Think of it like video-game physics. Without ideas like friction coefficient, astral bodies would tend to deflect around one-another if one is capable of moving faster than the other. Your projectile would thus have to move faster than the target can possibly move, i.e. its astral fast movement rate.

Purely astral bodies are capable of movement at rates of around 333 meters per second per point of Force (i.e. Force x 1000 meters per turn). As such, in order to avoid deflection an induce actual collision (with the contested Force rating/destruction scenario) your projectile would need to move at a speed greater than the target's astral fast movement speed. For even the most trivial astral beings, this exceeds the speed of a rifle bullet.

The only real way I've figured to damage an astral form with a dual-natured object, without a direct astral attack (i.e. astral combat with a weapon focus) would be to somehow entrap it within a series of wards such that their mechanical anchorings could be converged without creating an aperture of any measureable size, or using some sort of actually "carnivorous" substance for the dual-projectile. This is a problem, however, as even touching the substance would result in an attack, making it dangerous for anyone but a pure mundane to handle.

Such a thing would be the equivalent of astral ebola virus, if it was able to spread and grow rapidly. It's dangerous to introduce a lifeform like that into a game. Depending on its Force rating, it could easily begin destroying/feeding upon every astrally active entity in the vacinity. That's the problem with ideas like this. They have ramifications on a setting-wide scale if they work. Physical weapons that injure astral targets changes the whole geography of the playing field.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Wireknight)
It's dangerous to introduce a lifeform like that into a game.

Did anyone point this out to the guy at FASA that came up with Strain-III?

grinbig.gif
Grin / Duck / Run
Wireknight
Strain-III is slow, slow enough to be cured. Something fast enough to take down astral forms instantly (i.e. something that engaged in astral combat instantly and viciously on contact) would be apocalyptic for Awakened beings.
Herald of Verjigorm
What you really want is a tamed version of that Australian essense eater spider. It has mana bind in its webs, so you actually can use those to trap spirits.
TheNarrator
This discussion is strangely similar to the Shadowtalk discussion about the FAB net gun in "Corporate Security Handbook". Of course, that was second edition: rules for the astral were different.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
If you really want to go ghost busting you can pretend that its the 80s and turn a miniature nuclear accelerator into a backpack.


dang, you beat me to it. but it is "an unlicenced nuclear accelerator." but in all honesty, it is unlikely ghost hunting would develop technology. As pointed out by a few people, magicvally active people are far more effective and with hauntings being realatively uncommon, the corps would rather rely on paid mages to resolve a problem in a prediuctable way, than waste research on tech to do the same job.
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