The Ancient Files, as they stand, are languishing from neglect. Due to recent developments (4th edition, ED splitting, etc.) and less free time on my own part, I am now sorely behind (4 gamebooks and three novels). Further, my lack of technical skills have left the site rather bare, and in places difficult to use.

One possible suggestion forwarded to me, and one which I think has the greatest possible merit, is to translate the website into a Wiki format, similar to the Sixth World Wiki. While I have been self-aggrandizing and self-promoting in my management of the Ancient Files, the truth is they are only as useful as they are thanks to the many corrections, comments, and advice given by those who have visited the site and given me feedback on it.

I have always intended the website as a resource for fans of Shadowrun and Earthdawn. Not to belittle the attempts of others, but a large part of that was keeping the site current. I have no desire for it to become another languishing dinosaur, abandoned and left 'til it becomes worthless.

With the good, however, I will also note the bad. As the caretaker for the Ancient Files, I could act as a filter for all the comments regarding the site, a necessity when you consider the massive amounts of material you have to be aware of for many of the files. As a Wiki, it would fall to you, the fans, to be aware of your own limitations with regards to the material, and keep a sharp eye out for the errors of others. In other words, with greater freedom comes the responsibility to police yourself and correct the mistakes of others.

I look forward to your response and debate,
Ancient History

I answered "yes" because it's better than seeing it cancelled. However, I'd rather see you getting some extra hands to deal with the issue. Use yor Street Rep, chummer!

I say 'nay' becuase I like the page for one, and I like it under the direction and mind of one perosn instead of a mess of other people's interpretations. Perhaps nor fair to you AH, sorry, but it's a quality thing really. Besides, people here tend to be much more patient with you and updates than with say.... book release dates.

I think making it a Wiki is a good idea - especially if you keep overall editorial control of what is going on.
So far, I've found the Ancient Files to be an extremely useful resource - I'd like that usefulness to carry over into the newer stuff as well, and as you say, there's only so much one person can do.
(Incidentally, as far as I can see, "so much" has turned out to be "a hell of a lot")

I said 'yea' but only because I really really like Wikis

I'm for "yea", as long as the quality level remains the same (high). Would be a shame if the page would be flooded by entries of poor quality.

I'd say nay for that exact same reason. I prefer to keep the quality up, and I can be very patient with what you already got up, AH.

What if instead of a full out wiki open to everyone, You took on a Cadre of super-friends to add to making posts. Than the files would remain high quality, with people who know what they are talking about?

really i was just looking for an excuse to say "cadre of super-friends", but its my 2

cadre of super-friends. Right on

Far be it from me to disagree with another member of the Drop Bear Conspiracy (but I do outrank f...3.0). I am all for the wiki-zation. With one qualifier, AH has to ride herd and be able to lock a page if it gets out of control.

my 2

I think I agree with Jray -- can't it be a moderated wiki? Part of what separates the Ancient Files is the quality and accuracy of the information, guaranteed by AH's all-seeing eye.

I voted "yea", but I have mixed feelings on this.

I would want strong editorial control to maintain the accuracy of the site. Under the one voice of AH, there is total control on the accuracy of the information. Under a wiki, is it possible to have it moderated to maintain control? Also, would it be necessary to maintain daily backups to restore information that may have been vandalized?

It's not that simple.

I wouldn't mind a wiki add-on, but I'd prefer my AH stuff to be unadulterated.

I vote no because quality is more important and if lots of people can modify the wiki, its quality will seriously decrease...
i'm very happy with the current content, keeping the files updated is the only thing necessary (and for that only a few people is needed) because otherwise it will stop being THE reference for Shadowrun

I vote no because, well, there already *is* a Sixth World Wiki. We don't need a second one; we need people to contribute to the first.

I think AH should keep his site independent. There's quality stuff there, and it would be annoying to have to sift it from the dross.

I voted no as well. Too many cooks spoil the soup. I can see it becoming an example of some of the more heated discussions here on the boards and too too many conflicting POV's. AH I truly believe that you are the ONLY one of us who can keep this together.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Look at how chaotic and crappy Wikipedia is with it's nearly 700,000 registered users/editors from around the world.

I do agree though that since there is a Sixth World Wiki you should put it there anyway.

I have some sort of vague fear of Master Shake coming by and re-writing most of the Wiki...

And? That's like Sony saying they're going to fuck their paying customers in the ass if they play a CD on their computer because someone might trade it to an Internet already full of ripped copies taken from Sony or the producers months earlier.

While I support the idea of a team of Ancient Files writer's, editors, etc, is it plausible.
Who is willing to work on it?
Who would AH feel comfortable working with?
Are these the same people?
Would this team write like AH does, or would they summarize stuff so AH wouldn't have to read everything?
Or would it be the above discussed Wiki?
How would AH/or DS members determine who was qualified?
And finally, would this actually solve the problem, or would the process of creating this team just mean AH Files stay outdated but with more stress for all involved?
If we can't answer these questions, then I see the only option to leave the Files as they are or go to a full Wiki.

I voted yes, if for no other reason than i think i mentioned that to him. (and, if not, i was going to at one point, i don't remember if i actually did )


but, anyway. For the record. If someone went in and changed everything, that's not a problem. Wiki comes with a history for exactly that reason. You can roll back pages to any point. And, while i agree that AH knows more about that stuff than myself and most of the other people on here, why do you assume that EVERYONE who posts on the wiki will undoubetdly be wrong? if you think something is wrong, look it up in the book that it references. if it's wrong, change it. And, yes, you can Ban ip addresses from the wiki. So, if someone id just being annoying, you CAN ban them.

I think that it would be alot easier to do if you had to wign up to change anything on the wiki. even if you let anyone sign up. just so that you know who did it. But, i'm not sure i've heard of that feature being in a wiki. I, or others, can probibly add it though, if necessary.

So, yeah, that's what I think about the Wiki.

Another no to wiki here. I don't wish an utter lack of free time on you, but I don't want to see the quality go south either.

That said, do whatever you need to do man. One time around as they say.

Keep the original Ancient Files as is, use the Ancient Files as a seed for a new AF wiki.

ok, im not a wiki person, but would it be possible to "port" the existing pages, and add a sort of comments section to each part, and then have a seperate part of the linked wiki for "other Histories other than Ancient"?

That's a good idea.

Make it less of a wiki, and just add user comments instead. Give the admins the power to delete responses, which should be done for most. There should only be a few comments for each thing, otherwise it's more of a forum, and, that's kind of pointless. But, if you make it so that the comments can be inserted anywhere (or, just after any given paragraph), then you would end up with a pretty nice little display of information.


I like the idea of making it less wiki, more users can fix things, and add comments, without changing the entire page. And, the code for such a thing isn't all that hard to write. also, it would be easy enough to be able to turn off the comments, and just see the information, even without having to reload the page (kind of like how gmail works).

I think I may make a site like this anyway, just to have it. Because, it could be used for other types of information as well, not only shadowrun. Imagine people being able to comment in a news story. It's just too prefect. You'll get the real story then, and not just what the reporter says. Shadowrun wins again. I think i'm going to start writing to program this idea. And work on it over christmas break. So, anyone who wants to help (or, if someone else wants to head it up, or already is, I'm more than willing to help). However, I still have my website to work on (online character storage) and my brother's game that I said I'd help with (http://www.projectbushbaby.net), so, Hopefully I'll have time over christmas break to get a rough copy working. I've wanted to make somethign with Ajax (the not having to reload the page thing) anyway, so, it works out. part wiki, part Shadowlands. Now, i'll have to start making my FreeBSD box at home vanish of the internet, and come up in a different location. ^-^

I plunked my vote down as Yes, only because i want to let you know, Ancient History, that if it works for you that i'm cool with the risks that come from you sharing the load to try ensure it is a living, growing legacy rather than a stagnant, dieing one.

Although there aren't many in the neighborhood of AH, he isn't the only one here that is extremely knowledgable of SR canon. He has been, however, so far the sigular person to devote the most time to maintaining a page for it. Wiki is the tool for collective authoring efforts, and even with the drawbacks it has it seems to have largely succeeded.

That said i see a lot of merit in the idea of the unwashed masses adding researched comments only to a port of the existing data. Comments that then can be vetted, combined, editted, and sorted to be either intergrated as resonably solid, left as speculative comments, or tossed aside into the bit bucket (hopefully little would end up in the latter, with much of the details already hashed out prior on DSF and elsewhere).