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AmyJ
Hi guys, I've had to create an account and stop lurking thanks to the wonderful holes in the SR4 rules.

My problem is that I'm playing a character with the SINner flaw and I want to get myself licenced, the problem is that I don't see anything but a fake licence listed. What costs and problems are likely to crop up if I try to be a law abiding moro... er, citizen?
FrankTrollman
As you've noticed, legit licenses are not an item in the basic book. This is largely because the demand is so low. Any item you are licensed to own is also an item you are registered as owning. Unless you constantly change the firing pins and barrels on your weapons, a registered gun can be traced back to you from ballistics reports.

So I would say that all the legit licenses you want come "free" with the SINner flaw. It'll come to haunt you more often than it will come to your defense. Once play begins, getting licenses to do tasks is mostly a role playing thing. You have to convince some bored government official that you have a civillian use for whatever it is that you are trying to get licensed.

But that's not even hard for military equipment in the here and now. The government just wants to know where that stuff is. In the Shadowrun future, it's got to be pretty simple to convince the government to allow you to have a tank driving license. The nominal yearly fees probably fit in your lifestyle if you aren't slumming it.

-Frank
dog_xinu
I agree with Frank to a degree. I would do 50% to 67% off the fake license costs (of a rating 1). Yeah it is mostly conviencing some bored governemnt offical that you really need a license to carry that panther xxl. smile.gif But all government offices, especially if liceneses/permits are invloved requires fees.

Whatever the GM wants to do is what I would go with.


dx
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (dog_xinu)
But all government offices, especially if liceneses/permits are invloved requires fees.

And I belive that you could get away with rolling those costs up into the standard lifestyle cost.

Just like when you're SINless, there are all sorts of costs bundled into lifestyle (like that bribe to the property manager of the apartment complex your safehouse is in, to let you rent the place without running the standard credit check that typically goes with renting an apartment), when you've SINned, there are a whole different set of costs.
Teulisch
for balistics, remember that some ammo, like EXEX or flechettes, is not going to leave anything useable, just small peices (but EXEX if forbidden legality).

Personaly, i go with a taser, a pistol with fake liscence, and a pistol with no license. taser is fully leagel, take it where-ever. gun with license, thats for most days. the one with no nothing is good for runs. also, its a good bet balistics of a gun do not match the liscenece in most cases. i also like to have a shock glove.

In your case, i suggest having a licensed gun the same caliber as your illegal run gun. so all those clips of ammo are covered by the gun license. if both guns are the same model, most people will not check to see what gun you have with you.
Seifer
It's a pretty logical issue that if you want a legitmate license for your Ares White Knight LMG, you've got it on your legitimate SIN, though you'd have to talk to your GM about it. What you have to realize is that your legitimate SIN has so much information about your character on it that, even if you DID have an LMG license, it's not going to do you much good. If you're ever caught with it doing something illegal (which, well... why else would you own a freakin' machinegun!?) your ass is still grass, and furthermore if you ever get arrested with the rest of your team and they're all criminals/SIN-less/fake SINners, you're still busted.

Take all the freebie licenses you want under your actual SIN, just be aware that if you use it to commit a crime, your DNA/fingerprints/ballistics are just a commlink click away for any beat cop.

The only good thing I could see about having a real SIN is the fact that you don't have to make a security check to pay your rent for your "real" home. biggrin.gif
Liper
for a bulk of SR, if it's not listed in the sourcebook look to a real life counterpart.

Hunting license = sport rifle license, extrapolate from there = )
Azralon
I see two subjectively-appealing options on how to handle real licenses/permits:

1) Wrap up the costs in your Lifestyle, as previously mentioned.
PRO: Less paperwork.
CON: Why does a Street or Squatter Lifestyle include permits for SMGs?

2) Charge the same amount for real licenses as fake. It's just that one is Forbidden, and the other is Legal.
PRO: Ease of reference.
CON: More paperwork.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Azralon)
I see two subjectively-appealing options on how to handle real licenses/permits:

1) Wrap up the costs in your Lifestyle, as previously mentioned.
PRO: Less paperwork.
CON: Why does a Street or Squatter Lifestyle include permits for SMGs?

2) Charge the same amount for real licenses as fake. It's just that one is Forbidden, and the other is Legal.
PRO: Ease of reference.
CON: More paperwork.

Well, don't they mention in the core book, that if you want to buy a legal item, on the black market (like, to avoid people noticing what you're buying) there is a table with modifiers for that (somethign like +20% of the price.

The same logic could work in reverse... taking prices meant for black-market goods (fake licenses) and converting them to prices for legal goods (real licenses) should be ~80% the normal cost (divide illegal cost by 1.2, to be more exact - if 30% is even the right amount to begin with)

Very little additional math (once you figure out what the % really is) but makes getting a license through legitimate channels easier (cheaper) than getting one forged - which it should be, since the forger is going to take a cut, or you're paying for bribes or whatever...

Just an idea.
Azralon
The table you're talking about (p303) has pricing modifiers for somewhat rare situations:

Item counterfeit 20%
Item stolen 20%
Item used 20%
Item used in a crime under investigation 10%
Price war between rival dealers 10%
Market flooded 10%
Distribution channels monopolized +20%
Law Enforcement crackdown on item +50%
Market dry +20%

So I suppose the counterfeit modifier would apply.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Azralon)
The table you're talking about (p303) has pricing modifiers for somewhat rare situations:

Item counterfeit 20%
Item stolen 20%
Item used 20%
Item used in a crime under investigation 10%
Price war between rival dealers 10%
Market flooded 10%
Distribution channels monopolized +20%
Law Enforcement crackdown on item +50%
Market dry +20%

So I suppose the counterfeit modifier would apply.

Lol, yeah, I guess, except taht would make the REAL license MORE expensive than the fake... and I don't really think that's the case.

Getting a handgun license isn't overly expensive. As was mentioend earlier in this post, the government jsut wants to know where things are at. They're happy to let you own a gun, to "defend" yourself, as long as you're doing it legally, so they can track it down if it turns up in a muder investigation or something.

Getting a skilled forger to fake such a license and hack into a bunch of servers to plant falsified data all over reguarding it... that seems like it would be a lot more expensive. smile.gif
TheHappyAnarchist
I really don't think that it is as easy to get a machine gun license as that person implies.

BlackHat
QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist)
I really don't think that it is as easy to get a machine gun license as that person implies.

Lol, not a machine gun - but good luck getting a license to carry around a machine gun.

Own one, perhaps, but being able to take one to your favorite bar? Nope.

but for things like cyberware, pistols, metal-detector, etc, normal people have these things, so you can get a license for them without too much red-tape.

Explaining why you NEED a machine gun on you at all times without disclosing what you do for a living? That could be tough.
Azralon
Whenever we've had someone get a permit for something questionable, they've had to link it to a fake SIN that would justify the permit.

For instance, if Bob wants a permit for his Pred4, he has to declare that one of his SINs says he's a UCAS federal marshal or the like.
Demon_Bob
I would say that getting a real license if you are SINned should not be difficult and the costs minimal unless the character has a flaw that is in conflict with it. For example: Criminal SIN and gun license; Addiction alcohol, Drivers license; ect.

There are reasons where a SINner might want a fake license, or fake ID.

Could you create an alibi for yourself by setting up a seperate account with X nuyen.gif and letting someone run around with a cheap comlink with you SIN tied to that account. It would either have to be someone you trusted.

Advert.
And with a Zylum account you are not resonsible for charges made by a lost or stolen comlink.
Spoonfunk
QUOTE
Take all the freebie licenses you want under your actual SIN, just be aware that if you use it to commit a crime, your DNA/fingerprints/ballistics are just a commlink click away for any beat cop.



Just remember in 2070 the day and age of wireless connectivity, lone star doesn't neccassarily have to wait for a crime report after the fact. They can probally scan you gun's RFID tag looking for a license while you firing the said weapon if they have a drone in the vicinity.

Just remember big brother is watching always.
stevebugge
In all likelihood a legally purchased, licensed gun probably has to have an RFID broadcasting it's serial number, and if the license in your commlink profile doesn't match the RFID serial number you may be questioned.
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