Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Critical Strike
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Zen Shooter01
For .25 power points, you can raise your Unarmed Combat DV by 1. It seems to me this largely makes melee weapons pointless for adepts, as well as the Close Combat Skill Group.

With STR 5 and 1 power point invested in Critical Strike, you can do 7S unarmed combat damage. Combine it with Killing Hands, and for 1.5 power points you are pounding out 7P that ignores Immunity to Normal Weapons and goes into astral combat with you, and you need exactly no equipment to do it.

I can't think of any combination of powers that will make a sword or club perform like that, and no matter what, you still need the sword or the club - gear that can be lost.
You divide your STR/2 for the basic melee damage. But yes, by spending 1.5 power points you can have the same damage code as a Combat Axe (and with Str (4) the same damage as a monofilament whip), and once you Initiate and take Flexible Signature metamagic you even have a chance of sneaking past someone scanning for weapons. You also can easily choose to do Stun damage instead of Physical.

However the Combat Axe still gets an AP -1 (and the whip AP -4!), a reach of 2m, and also can be Weapon Foci for much astral bashing goodness.

*shrug* It isn't entirely clear cut, but the smashy-smashy hands are definately strongly competitive (and kinda cool to boot smile.gif ).
Yeah, I am playing an adept with the KH/Critical Strike(4) combo. His Str is 4, has an unarmed spec. of 5(+2). He does do better with that that his mace.

However, should he ever come across a force 6 weapon focus for a mace(so he likes maces), at that point, even with a lower score, the weapon focus can win out.

But his unarmed capabilities extend astral, I took him astral combat(Unarmed)2(+2)...with his Will of 3, if he needs to percieve and slap something, those extra damage points are wonderful, as Im rolling 7 dice(with a TN of five, he only averages 2-3 successes a roll).

They are good powers, period, helping higher skill folks and lower skill folks alike. And like i said in the paragraph above, they are really fantastic for the 'astral assassin' type.

Now combine that with the bonus from bone density or Bone lacing, and now were talking...
True enough...

But your adept's gonna loose some magic rating with the essence loss also meaning some power. And critical strike should really be one of those power the GM limit in the character creation (some persons on this forum suggest a maximum power level of half the magic rating). Just for game balance sake, it's not pleasant to have a character able to kill every opponent he punch(at least at char/gen).

Make the char a high strength troll, get alpha bone density 4 (less than 1 point lost) and you can still have magic 5 and 5 points of crit strike....Pretty scary...So, a ten strength Troll w/ the aforementioned would have like a 13 dv unarmed....
And one initiative pass.

I thought monowhips had a DV of 10, or is it only 8.

Even with that, at S/2 + level of power it doesn't seem like much.
For a Str 8 character that is only 4+level, and wait. I don't know how much it costs.

Is it .5 / level or 1 per level?
It's .25/level for Critical Strike. VERY cheap. KH is only .5.
Good lordy lordy.

That troll does have enough for defense, a few initiative passes. Wow.

What's even worse is spending 3 points on it gives +12 DV?
Is that legal? It seems to be implied above that there is no limit?
QUOTE (p187)
The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept’s Magic attribute.
While the Troll with Str 10 and 6 points of Crit Strike is certainly deadly, IMO the troll with Str 10 and a Force 6 weapon focus(axe) is a touch scarier.

Sure, the damage is 9P vs. 11P...but that axe has 2 reach, plus 1 with the troll(3 total)...with 6 more dice to wield it, at least, if you apply the Reach to the enemy's dice pool.

But that's not to say, again, Crit Strike isn't good. With the average fighter type character doing a base 2 or 3 points of unarmed damage, it's a nice bonus to have for sure.
Dread Polack
Azralon- gotta be a total bummer, don't you? indifferent.gif

I was just going to say that even if your adept had a 10+ damage unarmed attack; with disadvantage of being unarmed against an armed or, god forbid, troll opponent, what you really need is more unarmed attack dice. Also, keep in mind that melee attacks are more rare than melee attacks, and relying on them as your primary form of attack isn't really your best bet.

In my campaign, I also have a house-rule that being unarmed carries a -1 penalty against armed opponents. Think of it as having -1 reach. Even without my house rule, attacking unarmed against a troll with a combat axe could get you a -3 penalty. You're going to need the +5 or +6 damage if you hit. He's got 8P damage with -1 AP. You're probably evenly matched, which is impressive in iteself!

Dread Polack
QUOTE (Dread Polack)
Azralon- gotta be a total bummer, don't you? indifferent.gif

Sorry, I don't mean to be. smile.gif
You have my eternal gratitude for giving me peace of mind on that.

Worried for a bit.

I don't think having +Magic damage is all that bad though. Especially as it is only with unarmed attacks, which are already tricksy against someone with reach who has a half decent defense pool. From what I have seen anyway.

A maxed out human adept at 9 (I will assume math rounding as I don't know how it rounds in the book) would start with a DV of 5, and with magic 6 could have a DV at 11. Respectable for someone who is obviously dedicated to hitting like a ton of bricks.
Average starting adept would be more around Str 5, for a damage of 3 + 5 or 8DV. Still respectable. Better than many guns. Actually better than a lot of guns I think. Especially if you load normal rounds.

That is a good power. or do weapons just have lightish damage? It somewhat seems that way to me. 5 DV for a heavy pistol does not seem like much.
Could just be me though.

I don't know how I feel about that. On the other hand, they are putting 1.25 into that power alone. Hm. would .5 be unreasonable for that power as a cost? If attribute raising is the same it is .5 for under limit, and 1 for above limit. So strength would not be a better option for damage, so that may make it more reasonable.
I've always ruled that adept powers that work with unarmed strike also work Through Bonded Weapon Foci. But that's just me.
Yeah, I like the idea of it working through bonded foci. It can make some crazy powerful combat axe foci, but bah.

One thing to keep in mind when you see the crazy high dv, is the aforementioned issues with reach and ap. My personal GM allows "Glove" foci so I personally could take those to help offset the reach issue. Not really in the book though....

But when comparing it to guns, think about this:

Burst fire, Full auto ect. Guns can still beat a maxed out crital strike adept with these options in my opinion. That smg that started at 5p just got boosted to 9p with exex and a burst, a little under damage wise, but most guns get to attack twice, without splitting your dice pool like melee attacks.

When in melee, you are a sitting duck. Everyone that attacks you is knocking down your ability to defend by a dice each time. The gun toter is much better off firing form cover. Not to mention, you have to run up to a person to hit them....

I don't know if these outweigh the benefits of the critical strike adept (no cost for the weapon, perfect conceilability, always having it with you) but they are something to think about.
Also remember that everyone gets an extra pile of dice into their defense pool against melee attacks that they don't get against ranged attacks.

In melee you add the highest of your close combat skill of choice or your dodge to your defense pool before you engage a full defense action. At range, you don't.

In general, having someone spend a quarter of their adept powers to essentially conceal a combat axe just isn't that impressive. They could have gotten themselves a Monowhip Weapon Focus instead and had much the same effect.

Can't make a monowhip weapon foci just fyi.
I thought that it was impossible to have a monowhip focus... ?
Where is that rule? Is it under monowhips.

Did they just say out of all other weapons, monowhips can't?

THat seems odd.
Good points on the dodging issue.

On the monowhip-foci deal, the book dosen't specifically say you can't have one, but many people may feel it shouldn't be allowed as a foci because of it's high tech components....My Gm wouldn't allow it, beg as I might....

QUOTE (Liper)
Can't make a monowhip weapon foci just fyi.

And why not?

Seriously, is there anything in 4th edition that says that weapon foci have to have orichalcum all the way down their length? In the 4th edition rules, there is nothing to say that you can't have a Monowhip Weapon Focus. It's object resistance 4, when the enchanting rules come out, it probably won't even be that difficult to make.

In melee combat you defend with (reaction + (skill of weapon in hand) or dodge)
Ranged defend with (reation) Full Defence adds Dodge dice. Missed that up.

Using unarmed combat to defend against a weapon is risky. A glitch could result in your arm taking damage and being rendered less useful.

Back to subject - Critical strike and Killing Hands allows you to have a weapon that can be easily taken past airport security. (Unless, you have a Criminal SIN.)
Stupid criminal trick - Hyjacking a plane leaving an awakened convention.
QUOTE (Demon_Bob @ Dec 2 2005, 08:14 PM)
In melee combat you defend with (reaction + (skill of weapon in hand) or dodge)
Ranged defend with (reation + dodge)  Full Defence readds Dodge dice.

Read it again.


Th ere is no skill that applies to defending against ranged
attacks—defending characters simply roll Reaction (the defaulting
modifi er does not apply). Characters may also go on
full defense (p. 151).


Characters who are expecting to be attacked can spend a
Complex Action and go on full defense until their next Action
Phase. Characters who choose this option focus all of their energy
on dodging, weaving, ducking, and blocking incoming attacks.
Characters on full defense may still walk or run, and in
fact may be better off moving towards cover.
Full defense can either be taken as a full dodge, full parry,
or gymnastics dodge.
Full Dodge: Character on full defense may add their
Dodge skill to their dice pool when defending against incoming
attacks. So a character on full defense against a ranged attack
rolls Reaction + Dodge, whereas a character on full defense
against a melee attack could roll Reaction + Dodge + Dodge,
or Reaction + melee combat skill + Dodge. Full dodge may be
used against both ranged and melee attacks.
Full Parry: Characters who go on full parry roll their
Reaction + (melee combat skill x 2) against any and all melee
attacks made against them. Full parry may not be used against
ranged attacks.
Gymnastics Dodge: Characters skilled in Gymnastics can
spend their action fl ipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of
danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against
either ranged or melee attacks.

While a melee attack allows people to parry, block, or dodge their attack regardless of whether they are on full defense or not, Ranged attacks require that the target be on full defense to add any skill dice at all.

Is there anything stopping someone from making an Orichalcum monowhip? As long is at is a near monomolecular string, bonded to itself on the molecular level quite strongly, it should work right? The material shouldn't matter much at all as long as it is solid.
But thats not really a mon-whip is it? Compare the monowhip to the mono-sword and you will see a big damn difference....Not that I am argueing either side, I thik it just falls to GM approval.
you can't bond orichalium to the part that's doing the damage, which is where weapon foci get thier advantage vs immunity to weapons.

You can argue a weapon foci that adds it's dice still but it won't bypass special resistances.

Bonding orichalium to a mono whip makes the whip no longer a monowhip (the damage comes from taking a small molecular thin strang and moving it through something, similiar to how a cheese slicer(you know the cheap ones at wall mart with the thin wire and the roller) works)
Zen Shooter01
You know, just when you think you've heard everything on Dumpshock...orichalcum monowhips.
QUOTE (Zen Shooter01 @ Dec 2 2005, 11:07 PM)
You know, just when you think you've heard everything on Dumpshock...orichalcum monowhips.

I'd be very surprised if that specific suggestion hasn't come up at least twice somewhere in the history of DSF, quite possibly more often. I'm pretty sure there were suggestions in a thread at one point that canon didn't specifically require you to incorporate the orichalcum into the physical matrix of the entire length of the whip. That it was just required to make the physical able to mirror into astral. Though melding the molecules in makes logical sense based on our current concepts of the physical world, that model obviously doesn't include the realities of the 6th world. *shrug*

P.S. I'm not arguing for allowing monowhips foci, i'm just suggesting to use the Search feature on the main forum because this has been discussed before from many angles.
Well, if the monowhip is some sort of buckytube, and therefore hollow, you could probably fill the inside with particles of orichalcum like a milkshake being pulled through a straw. The hardest bit would be pulling the orichalcum through the tube without breaking it, and magic can take care of that easily enough.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012