For .25 power points, you can raise your Unarmed Combat DV by 1. It seems to me this largely makes melee weapons pointless for adepts, as well as the Close Combat Skill Group.

With STR 5 and 1 power point invested in Critical Strike, you can do 7S unarmed combat damage. Combine it with Killing Hands, and for 1.5 power points you are pounding out 7P that ignores Immunity to Normal Weapons and goes into astral combat with you, and you need exactly no equipment to do it.

I can't think of any combination of powers that will make a sword or club perform like that, and no matter what, you still need the sword or the club - gear that can be lost.

You divide your STR/2 for the basic melee damage. But yes, by spending 1.5 power points you can have the same damage code as a Combat Axe (and with Str (4) the same damage as a monofilament whip), and once you Initiate and take Flexible Signature metamagic you even have a chance of sneaking past someone scanning for weapons. You also can easily choose to do Stun damage instead of Physical.

However the Combat Axe still gets an AP -1 (and the whip AP -4!), a reach of 2m, and also can be Weapon Foci for much astral bashing goodness.

*shrug* It isn't entirely clear cut, but the smashy-smashy hands are definately strongly competitive (and kinda cool to boot ).

Yeah, I am playing an adept with the KH/Critical Strike(4) combo. His Str is 4, has an unarmed spec. of 5(+2). He does do better with that that his mace.

However, should he ever come across a force 6 weapon focus for a mace(so he likes maces), at that point, even with a lower score, the weapon focus can win out.

But his unarmed capabilities extend astral, I took him astral combat(Unarmed)2(+2)...with his Will of 3, if he needs to percieve and slap something, those extra damage points are wonderful, as Im rolling 7 dice(with a TN of five, he only averages 2-3 successes a roll).

They are good powers, period, helping higher skill folks and lower skill folks alike. And like i said in the paragraph above, they are really fantastic for the 'astral assassin' type.

Now combine that with the bonus from bone density or Bone lacing, and now were talking...

True enough...

But your adept's gonna loose some magic rating with the essence loss also meaning some power. And critical strike should really be one of those power the GM limit in the character creation (some persons on this forum suggest a maximum power level of half the magic rating). Just for game balance sake, it's not pleasant to have a character able to kill every opponent he punch(at least at char/gen).

-Spider

Make the char a high strength troll, get alpha bone density 4 (less than 1 point lost) and you can still have magic 5 and 5 points of crit strike....Pretty scary...So, a ten strength Troll w/ the aforementioned would have like a 13 dv unarmed....

And one initiative pass.

I thought monowhips had a DV of 10, or is it only 8.

Even with that, at S/2 + level of power it doesn't seem like much.
For a Str 8 character that is only 4+level, and wait. I don't know how much it costs.

Is it .5 / level or 1 per level?

It's .25/level for Critical Strike. VERY cheap. KH is only .5.

Good lordy lordy.

That troll does have enough for defense, a few initiative passes. Wow.

What's even worse is spending 3 points on it gives +12 DV?
Is that legal? It seems to be implied above that there is no limit?

While the Troll with Str 10 and 6 points of Crit Strike is certainly deadly, IMO the troll with Str 10 and a Force 6 weapon focus(axe) is a touch scarier.

Sure, the damage is 9P vs. 11P...but that axe has 2 reach, plus 1 with the troll(3 total)...with 6 more dice to wield it, at least, if you apply the Reach to the enemy's dice pool.

But that's not to say, again, Crit Strike isn't good. With the average fighter type character doing a base 2 or 3 points of unarmed damage, it's a nice bonus to have for sure.

Azralon- gotta be a total bummer, don't you?

I was just going to say that even if your adept had a 10+ damage unarmed attack; with disadvantage of being unarmed against an armed or, god forbid, troll opponent, what you really need is more unarmed attack dice. Also, keep in mind that melee attacks are more rare than melee attacks, and relying on them as your primary form of attack isn't really your best bet.

In my campaign, I also have a house-rule that being unarmed carries a -1 penalty against armed opponents. Think of it as having -1 reach. Even without my house rule, attacking unarmed against a troll with a combat axe could get you a -3 penalty. You're going to need the +5 or +6 damage if you hit. He's got 8P damage with -1 AP. You're probably evenly matched, which is impressive in iteself!

Dread Polack

You have my eternal gratitude for giving me peace of mind on that.

Worried for a bit.

I don't think having +Magic damage is all that bad though. Especially as it is only with unarmed attacks, which are already tricksy against someone with reach who has a half decent defense pool. From what I have seen anyway.

A maxed out human adept at 9 (I will assume math rounding as I don't know how it rounds in the book) would start with a DV of 5, and with magic 6 could have a DV at 11. Respectable for someone who is obviously dedicated to hitting like a ton of bricks.
Average starting adept would be more around Str 5, for a damage of 3 + 5 or 8DV. Still respectable. Better than many guns. Actually better than a lot of guns I think. Especially if you load normal rounds.

That is a good power. or do weapons just have lightish damage? It somewhat seems that way to me. 5 DV for a heavy pistol does not seem like much.
Could just be me though.

I don't know how I feel about that. On the other hand, they are putting 1.25 into that power alone. Hm. would .5 be unreasonable for that power as a cost? If attribute raising is the same it is .5 for under limit, and 1 for above limit. So strength would not be a better option for damage, so that may make it more reasonable.

I've always ruled that adept powers that work with unarmed strike also work Through Bonded Weapon Foci. But that's just me.

Yeah, I like the idea of it working through bonded foci. It can make some crazy powerful combat axe foci, but bah.

One thing to keep in mind when you see the crazy high dv, is the aforementioned issues with reach and ap. My personal GM allows "Glove" foci so I personally could take those to help offset the reach issue. Not really in the book though....

But when comparing it to guns, think about this:

Burst fire, Full auto ect. Guns can still beat a maxed out crital strike adept with these options in my opinion. That smg that started at 5p just got boosted to 9p with exex and a burst, a little under damage wise, but most guns get to attack twice, without splitting your dice pool like melee attacks.

When in melee, you are a sitting duck. Everyone that attacks you is knocking down your ability to defend by a dice each time. The gun toter is much better off firing form cover. Not to mention, you have to run up to a person to hit them....

I don't know if these outweigh the benefits of the critical strike adept (no cost for the weapon, perfect conceilability, always having it with you) but they are something to think about.

Also remember that everyone gets an extra pile of dice into their defense pool against melee attacks that they don't get against ranged attacks.

In melee you add the highest of your close combat skill of choice or your dodge to your defense pool before you engage a full defense action. At range, you don't.

In general, having someone spend a quarter of their adept powers to essentially conceal a combat axe just isn't that impressive. They could have gotten themselves a Monowhip Weapon Focus instead and had much the same effect.

-Frank

Can't make a monowhip weapon foci just fyi.

I thought that it was impossible to have a monowhip focus... ?

Where is that rule? Is it under monowhips.

Did they just say out of all other weapons, monowhips can't?

THat seems odd.

Good points on the dodging issue.

On the monowhip-foci deal, the book dosen't specifically say you can't have one, but many people may feel it shouldn't be allowed as a foci because of it's high tech components....My Gm wouldn't allow it, beg as I might....

Eh??
In melee combat you defend with (reaction + (skill of weapon in hand) or dodge)
Ranged defend with (reation) Full Defence adds Dodge dice. Missed that up.

Using unarmed combat to defend against a weapon is risky. A glitch could result in your arm taking damage and being rendered less useful.

Back to subject - Critical strike and Killing Hands allows you to have a weapon that can be easily taken past airport security. (Unless, you have a Criminal SIN.)
Stupid criminal trick - Hyjacking a plane leaving an awakened convention.

Is there anything stopping someone from making an Orichalcum monowhip? As long is at is a near monomolecular string, bonded to itself on the molecular level quite strongly, it should work right? The material shouldn't matter much at all as long as it is solid.

But thats not really a mon-whip is it? Compare the monowhip to the mono-sword and you will see a big damn difference....Not that I am argueing either side, I thik it just falls to GM approval.

you can't bond orichalium to the part that's doing the damage, which is where weapon foci get thier advantage vs immunity to weapons.

You can argue a weapon foci that adds it's dice still but it won't bypass special resistances.

Bonding orichalium to a mono whip makes the whip no longer a monowhip (the damage comes from taking a small molecular thin strang and moving it through something, similiar to how a cheese slicer(you know the cheap ones at wall mart with the thin wire and the roller) works)

You know, just when you think you've heard everything on Dumpshock...orichalcum monowhips.

Well, if the monowhip is some sort of buckytube, and therefore hollow, you could probably fill the inside with particles of orichalcum like a milkshake being pulled through a straw. The hardest bit would be pulling the orichalcum through the tube without breaking it, and magic can take care of that easily enough.