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Cheops
See topic title.

One of my players and I were talking on the bus ride home last night and he pointed out that for a loss of 1 point of magic (and a lot of money) you could take Synaptic Accelerator 2 which simulates the bonuses of a 3 point adept ability.

I was just wondering if anyone has gone the cyber adept route and what that build looked like.
Liper
One of the better things you can do for adepts with cyber, is to use the synaptic accelerators, muscle aug/toner, and smartlink, hell even eyes, and ears.

nick012000
Elf (30 bp)

Qualities:
Adept (5bp)
Exceptional Attribute (Agility) (20bp)
Aptitude (Automatics) (10bp)
Allergy (peanuts, severe) (-15bp)
SINner (-5bp)
Addiction (BTLs, mild) (-5bp)
Addiction (stims, moderate) (-10bp)

Attributes (250bp):
Str 3
Agility 8(11)
Reaction 5(6)
Body 3
Charisma 3
Intuition 2
Logic 2
Willpower 2
Magic 6(5)
Edge 1
Essence 5.1

Skills (86bp):
Automatics (assault rifles) 7(9)
Pistols (semi-automatics) 3(5)
Blades (swords) 3(5)
Ettiquette (street) 1(3)
Intimidation 1
Infiltration 1
Armorer (Firearms) 1(3)

Gear (30bp):
Muscle Toner 2
Synaptic Accelerator 1
Katana
2 Survival Knives
Ares Predator IV w/ Hidden Arm Slide, Skinlink, and Silencer
Ares Alpha w/ Air Bust Link, Gas Vent 3 System, and Skinlink
Chameleon Suit
Helmet (regular)
Meta-link commlink w/ Vector Xim OS, Response Upgrade 5, Firewall Program 5, Skinlink
Trode net w/ skinlink
Contact Lenses w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink, and Skinlink
Glasses w/ Thermograpgic Vision, Vision Enhancement (rathing 3), Vision Magnification, and Skinlink
Earbud w/ Audio Enhancement (rating 3), Select Sound Filter (rating 3), Skinlink
Headphones w/Spacial Recognizer and Skinlink
Medkit (rating 6)
Low Lifestyle
24,000 nuyen.gif worth of EX-EX ammo and HE grenades

Contact (4bp):
Fixer (Loyalty 1, Connection 3)
Kavok
You spent 250bp on attributes? With your 400bp normal starting build you can only spend 200bp on attributes.
Tanka
Edge and Magic don't count toward that maximum. They aren't standard attributes.
Kavok
Sorry, should have looked closer. wink.gif
Oracle
@nick012000: Actually that's one of the best powergaming-pcs in SR4 I saw so far! smile.gif
Spirithazer
I'd like to see how your cyberadept would be able to handle manipulation spells. Can't say that a Willpower rating of 2 is powergaming...
Shrike30
Or incoming stun effects, for that matter. Incoming damage period, really...

Does wearing a normal helmet over a chameleon suit interfere with it?
Eyeless Blond
Your lack of Perception is also disturbing, as well as either Dodge or Gymnastics for dodging bullets.

And you certainly aren't going to call a front-line fighter with a Bod of 3 and a Wil of 2 powergaming. smile.gif
Azralon
A glass cannon, really. Awesome for ambushes, blowy for protracted fights.
Shrike30
How do you put a silenced Predator 4 on a "hidden" arm slide without wearing a hugeass coat with big poofy sleeves?

I dunno. I look at that build, and I see a one-trick pony... try not to be seen wearing the chameleon suit, despite not having much in the way of stealth skills to work with it, and then hope the reactions and the body armor keep you in one piece once the huge muzzle flash off the vented Alpha gives away your position.

I may be doing the math wrong in my head, but doesn't that character have enough armor on (between the cham suit and the helmet) to cause encumberance issues, what with the Bod of 3?

I'm also curious which Adept abilities were purchased. They aren't listed.
Lagomorph
He'd certainly have the Improved Skill (Automatics) at 5.
If you gave him Combat Sense power, he'd have defense dice to roll against attacks with.
Squinky
It depends on what kind of adept you are tyring to build, if you are going for a melee adept, You could drop one point of magic and get bone density 4 (alpha), it gives a +4 against dmg resistance whick rocks, and your unarmed attacks become str/2+3p. Combine that with 5 lvls of critical strike and you are rocking (8p before strength is even factored in, all for 1.25 magic and 1 point essence) I'd throw in attribute boost for strength and agility, and you are rocking with 3.25 points of magic left to do with as you please.....

Another thing to think on is that cyber armor for limbs stacks with normal armor, so dropping a point of essence into getting hands and feet with 2 points of armor each will give you a +8 to your armor. Much cheaper than mystic armor.....But then again Cyber-limbs are screwed up rule wise, so it depends on how your group plays them is they are worth it....
PlatonicPimp
The best cybered adept I can thing of is one who gets cyberweapons and enchants them as weapon foci.

Of course, I like to make a mage, get a cyberarm and enchant it as a power focus.

There are always some cyber it's woth getting as an adept. The social adept wants to get some tailored pheremones right away. Sure, you lose a magic, but that's overcomable. Stacking Tailored pheremones and Kenesics? SOOO worth it.

Technical adept gets a datajack, implanted commlink, and a cerebral booster, to compliment his improved ability (Hacking) skill.

Melee adepts may want cyberweapons, as noted above. Initiative systems are less expensive on the system if you get them as bioware. I'd reccomend against strait physical stat boosters, however, since the adept power ability boost won't work with them, and it is a badass power. If you have a magic of 5, you get it at 1 and roll six dice, every hit adding 1 to the ability score. You resist a drain of 1 after the boost ends. it costs .25 Magic.

Vehicle adepts want a control rig.

Ranged combat adepts only benifit from the initiative systems, because the cyberware of interest to them is easily available as accessories. The only exceptions are the cyberarm slide or the cyberarm gyromount.

TheBlack
QUOTE (Cheops @ Dec 7 2005, 05:50 PM)
See topic title.

One of my players and I were talking on the bus ride home last night and he pointed out that for a loss of 1 point of magic (and a lot of money) you could take Synaptic Accelerator 2 which simulates the bonuses of a 3 point adept ability.

I was just wondering if anyone has gone the cyber adept route and what that build looked like.


I built a character like this just last week. However it occurred to me that I've made a permanent sacrifice of essence/magic in order to get that implant gain (I took a liking to Mystic Adept). Meanwhile my ability to cast spells, counterspell, banish, etc. is all effected by a lower Magic score.

I decided to just drop the implants because in the long run, the character will be more effective IMO without them. Am I wrong?


What I ended up with is a Face character that is also a Magician, and skipped the Adept builds entirely. I just use spells to augment physical attributes as needed rather than cyberware or Adept abilities. If my Adept had been pysically focused it would of worked alot better to add the cyberwear with Adept.
Liper
for spellworms yeah, cyber will set em back a good amount, for a physical adept it's great.
nick012000
QUOTE (Shrike30)
How do you put a silenced Predator 4 on a "hidden" arm slide without wearing a hugeass coat with big poofy sleeves?

I dunno. I look at that build, and I see a one-trick pony... try not to be seen wearing the chameleon suit, despite not having much in the way of stealth skills to work with it, and then hope the reactions and the body armor keep you in one piece once the huge muzzle flash off the vented Alpha gives away your position.

I may be doing the math wrong in my head, but doesn't that character have enough armor on (between the cham suit and the helmet) to cause encumberance issues, what with the Bod of 3?

I'm also curious which Adept abilities were purchased. They aren't listed.

About the hidden arm slide... it would only be hidden with his normal clothes.

As for the one-trick pony-ness... well, the idea is to kill all your enemies before they get a chance to react, and this was mostly an excercise in "How many dice can I legally get to roll with my Assault Rifle?". wink.gif

As for the encumbrence issues: Did they change that from 3rd edition? I thought it still worked off of Agility (formerly known as Quickness).

As for the Adept Powers: Whoops. Here they are.
Improved Ability (Automatics): 5 (2.5pp)
Improved Attribute (Agility) 1 (2pp)
Combat Sense 1 (.5pp)

Liper
I'd honestly for cyber, start off with synaptic booster 1, eyes cramed with goodies, datajack and a commlink.

Then purchase a weapon foci bound = ) or two.

Kavok
So are muscle toners/enhancers worth it?

I believe if you go all alpha-ware you can get:
Bone Density 2
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle Toner 1
for .96 essence

So that means:
A) All unarmed damage is lethal (the bone density) this save you from buying that power with a pp.
B) Your unarmed damage is going to be + 1 because of the bone density.
C) You will end up with (I believe) +2 body +2 strength +1 agility (the +2 strength adds another 1 damage)

Then you could take 5 levels of crit strike (1.25pp) for +5 damage. You end up with +5 from adept powers, +1 from bone density, +1 from strength enhancements, so thats a base +7 damage along with whatever the rest of your strength adds.

That leaves you with 3.75pp

You could grab Imp Reflexes 2 for 3pp leaving you with .75 left.

You could go with 3 attribute boosts, or a mystic armor and something else. etc..

Lets not forget adepts can initiate so you may end up with another 3pp to spend.

Oh, side note: Can you 'upgrade' abilities as an adept? Can you go from Imp Ref 2 to Imp Ref 3 by paying 2 more pp?


Critias
Unless it's changed in SR4, you might still want Killing Hands (as it can be used to bypass the Immunity to Natural Weapons power, letting you smack down Spirits and such, where other, mundane abilities, don't let you).
Kavok
Your right Critias, you wouldn't be able to smack spirits. But then again I'd probably just run from a spirit. biggrin.gif
Grinder
That's a one-trick-pony - and a bad one. The only thing the adept is really good in is shooting with his assault rifle. But his mental attributes are too weak against magic and his low body won't help much in a longer combat. Where he will get hit, because of his lacking dodge/gymnastic skill.
Oracle
Grinder is right. The missing dodge/gymnastic is a problem.
Liper
also the bone density if I recall doesn't add body, it just adds physical damage to attacks and +1 damage resistance die per level.

Kavok
QUOTE
Increase the recipient’s Body by the bone density
rating for damage resistance tests.


Doh. I'm just making mistakes left and right. I remember reading it and seeing "Increase the recipient's Body by the bone density rating"
Grinder
We live to learn. smile.gif
nick012000
QUOTE (Grinder)
That's a one-trick-pony - and a bad one. The only thing the adept is really good in is shooting with his assault rifle. But his mental attributes are too weak against magic and his low body won't help much in a longer combat. Where he will get hit, because of his lacking dodge/gymnastic skill.

You could default to Agility, couldn't you?
6thDragon
QUOTE (nick012000)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Dec 9 2005, 05:03 AM)
That's a one-trick-pony - and a bad one. The only thing the adept is really good in is shooting with his assault rifle. But his mental attributes are too weak against magic and his low body won't help much in a longer combat. Where he will get hit, because of his lacking dodge/gymnastic skill.

You could default to Agility, couldn't you?

No, you can't default. Dodge allows you add your dodge to your reaction when on full offense. Personally if that's a character you actually intend to play I'd highly recommend getting a couple points in perception. Defaulting to an intuition of two will only give you one dice to roll. Anything outside the obvious will require more than one success also. If this was just an attempt to see how many dice you can get on an automatics roll, congratulations you have a fist full of dice. But if that's all you wanted I'd consider the reflex recorder for automatics with that 0.1 essence left.
PlatonicPimp
QUOTE (Kavok @ Dec 9 2005, 09:38 AM)
So are muscle toners/enhancers worth it?

I believe if you go all alpha-ware you can get:
Bone Density 2
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle Toner 1
for .96 essence

So that means:
A) All unarmed damage is lethal (the bone density) this save you from buying that power with a pp.
B) Your unarmed damage is going to be + 1 because of the bone density.
C) You will end up with (I believe) +2 body +2 strength +1 agility (the +2 strength adds another 1 damage)

Then you could take 5 levels of crit strike (1.25pp) for +5 damage. You end up with +5 from adept powers, +1 from bone density, +1 from strength enhancements, so thats a base +7 damage along with whatever the rest of your strength adds.

That leaves you with 3.75pp

You could grab Imp Reflexes 2 for 3pp leaving you with .75 left.

You could go with 3 attribute boosts, or a mystic armor and something else. etc..

Lets not forget adepts can initiate so you may end up with another 3pp to spend.

Oh, side note: Can you 'upgrade' abilities as an adept? Can you go from Imp Ref 2 to Imp Ref 3 by paying 2 more pp?

The problem is, Ability boost doesn't stack with cyber enhancements to ability scores. So if you got muscle toner to increse your agility, you can't use ability boost to increase it further.

And Ability boost is SOOO much better.

Why? Well, for a measly .25 points, you have it at rating 1. When using the power, you roll Rating + Magic rating, and every hit increases the stat by 1.

This means that if you have a magic rating of 5, you are rolling 6 dice to boost the stat. An average of 2. Once you start increasing your magic stat (As you certainly will), It keeps getting better, without you ever having to take it past rating 1. In fact, you don't ever want it past rating 1, for resons I'll get into below.

Now it will only last for twice your hits in rounds, but who cares? By that time you will have kicked all ass, and then you take drain. The DV of the drain is the rating of the power. IE, 1. If you had it at rating 2, you have doubled the drain you must resist for a measly additional die, and spent .25 pp to do it. So don't. You resist the drain with Body + will. You are an adept. You can get 1 hit on that test.

Now, there appears to be no reset time. So you can just use the power again once it runs out. I don't have my book with me, but I don't even think it takes an action.

Summing up, assuming you have a Magic rating of 5, you can, on average, get an additional 2 points to an attribute for 4 rounds with no drain, usable at will, for thebargain price of .25 Power Points. Why would you ever give soemthing like that up to use any other method of boosting your physical attributes?

But what about the randomness, you say. It's a check? so can't you fail or botch it? Sure you can, but that same randomness is also your friend. You can, after all, roll all six successes, boosting your attribute by 6 (Up to your cap, of course.) And since you get it for twice the successes, those good rolls will last much longer than the bad ones. If you fail, you can just take the drain and try again. After all, you can get 1 hit on the resistance test, right?

Plus, it's a roll. You can spend edge on it.

And that is my dissertaion on why attribute boost is the best adept power in the game, for physical adepts.


Oh, on a side note, Yes, Yes you can.
nick012000
QUOTE (6thDragon)
QUOTE (nick012000)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Dec 9 2005, 05:03 AM)
That's a one-trick-pony - and a bad one. The only thing the adept is really good in is shooting with his assault rifle. But his mental attributes are too weak against magic and his low body won't help much in a longer combat. Where he will get hit, because of his lacking dodge/gymnastic skill.

You could default to Agility, couldn't you?

No, you can't default. Dodge allows you add your dodge to your reaction when on full offense. Personally if that's a character you actually intend to play I'd highly recommend getting a couple points in perception. Defaulting to an intuition of two will only give you one dice to roll. Anything outside the obvious will require more than one success also. If this was just an attempt to see how many dice you can get on an automatics roll, congratulations you have a fist full of dice. But if that's all you wanted I'd consider the reflex recorder for automatics with that 0.1 essence left.

Well, that's what the Rating 3 vision enhancement and hearing enhancements are for.
Kavok
@PlatonicPimp: Does the adepts ability increase power count towards augmented max? (Human with 6 str can only score, or count, 3 hits?)

Didnt want to quote your big post and annoy everyone.
Feshy
QUOTE
Why would you ever give soemthing like that up to use any other method of boosting your physical attributes?


Why? How about because the action it takes to do this is undefined. Most likely, it is a free action -- which you get one of a turn. Some days you might want more than one attribute boosted at a time...

But in general, I agree with you. Spend one power point to get the ability to boost all four physical attributes, it's a real bargain!
Darkness
@Kavok: According to the german errata (to which an english version will follow AFAIK) Improved Ability doesn't give Bonus Dice anymore, but instead increases the skill directly, and thus falls under the hard cap of 1.5 times the base skill.
Attribute Boost has been scaled down accordingly according to said errata:
QUOTE
Add on the end of the second paragraph: "No attribute may be improved beyond its augmented maximum (see p.62). Attribute Boost requires a Simple Action to activate."

-translation by me.
TheHappyAnarchist
So attribute boosts are once again relagated to increasing strength to break down doors and such.
Sphynx
Our team just finished its char gen, and we have a guy with Synaptic Accelerator 3 as an Adept. He spent the whole 50 points possible on resources, but it seems it was well wrth it. Add in his commlink and datajack, he's still got a Magic of 3 for Power Points after having bought it to 5, and that's with +3/+3

Long term eval of the character says that he'll get up to 8 Power Points total in his lifetime. If he'd gone with the 5 point Adept power to do the same thing, he'd only get 7 (Magic*2 = 12 - 5) additional Power Points in his lifetime, at a much higher karma cost.

Overall, better by one long-term power point and lower karma expenditure.

Sphynx
Liper
cept you can't start with lv 3 accel by the rules.
Sphynx
Good to know, he'll be most displeased. wink.gif
Oracle
Everything over availability 12 is forbidden at chargen.
Sphynx
Yeah, I knew that, I just trusted him on the numbers after he went through so much trouble to get exactly Avail 12 on his ContactLenses and Glasses so he could get Ultrasound, VisiEnh, VisMag, and SmartLink all at the same time. nyahnyah.gif
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