I am just fishing to see if anyone wants more specific information about the "Sioux" Nation, and any other Plains tribal group. I am asking because I have a decent amount of game related information that I wrote, which will need to be updated. My creds are; I am Lakota (Sioux), have taken many U courses about NA subjects and have an extensive private library about my folk.
As an aside, one of the things I like best about SR4 is removing the silly shaman/totem thingee from the core rules. I always felt somewhat offended by that.
Plains tribes, at least, did not have "shamans" as described by the books, and only a rare person would connect with a single animal. I always felt the devs got their information from Llywellyn press (sp) when it came to NAs.
But, I don't want to tread on written information if no-one is interested.
Full Version: Quick Poll about NAN
Well, there already are sourcebooks on the subject from previous editions.
This is why I don't want to step on toes. The old rule was not to bicker with established canon. However, it is a new edition, so it might be time to bring some blood perspective on the game. Or, it might be time for me to drink a glass of st...
| QUOTE (Big Crow) |
| This is why I don't want to step on toes. The old rule was not to bicker with established canon. However, it is a new edition, so it might be time to bring some blood perspective on the game. Or, it might be time for me to drink a glass of st... |
Well, I'm playing a character with vaguely Sioux heritage (I never got more specific than "Sioux" for instance, even though I understand there isn't exactly a "Sioux" tribe per se), yet I haven't even the most basic information on them. So I for one would love to hear your perspective whether it contrasts canon or not -- either way it's bound to give me some good perspective on the issue.
I'm the idjit that voted No. Sorry, I've no interest in the area-lore books. I like to invent my own crazy settings, and not bog my system down with canon facts. Never have, never will, buy an area-lore book, unless it has more than a couple of pages of game-mechanics in it.
Sphynx
Sphynx
Whoops, guess I was the first guy to pick the Indian Hater choice.
I've got no problems with Indians (er, Native Americans), but as far as the Shadowrun game world is concerned, I can't wait 'til the UCAS takes back "our" land.
I'm a bit of a Patriot
But all things aside, even though I don't like to bog down my campaigns with "canon", I always enjoy hearing people's perspectives about the world as it relates to SR, and you never know what things you read can lead to a great plot hook somewhere down the line. I'm all for fresh ideas, so let 'er rip.
I've got no problems with Indians (er, Native Americans), but as far as the Shadowrun game world is concerned, I can't wait 'til the UCAS takes back "our" land.
I'm a bit of a Patriot
But all things aside, even though I don't like to bog down my campaigns with "canon", I always enjoy hearing people's perspectives about the world as it relates to SR, and you never know what things you read can lead to a great plot hook somewhere down the line. I'm all for fresh ideas, so let 'er rip.
If you write anything, it will be faaaaar better received if you don't change anything that has been written, ESPECIALLY to un-fuck a situation. Shadowrun is a distopia, things sucks. Writing stuf like "That would never have happened, the sioux will never be that dumb" (not that I'm accusing you of having done that, just saying) does not get a favourable response.
What would be more usefull is an insight on general culture an a way of seeing things, taking into consideration things in SR4 are differant. Like, I'm sure RL Sioux aren't a bunch of gun-ho military types, but in SR4 the Sioux have a pervasive warrior mentality, like ancient greeks or something like that.
What would be more usefull is an insight on general culture an a way of seeing things, taking into consideration things in SR4 are differant. Like, I'm sure RL Sioux aren't a bunch of gun-ho military types, but in SR4 the Sioux have a pervasive warrior mentality, like ancient greeks or something like that.
| QUOTE (Big Crow) |
| But, I don't want to tread on written information if no-one is interested. |
Those who are will search for it.
Just, if it is never published... they won't find it.
I am interested, and busy. I don't have time to randomly search up everything I want to know.
So please, post here and save me the trouble, while teaching me more about your culture as well.
So please, post here and save me the trouble, while teaching me more about your culture as well.
I have decided not to post up most of the flavor text, because I don’t really want to have my material distributed un-credited or to present any real challenge to established works. But I will still add some interesting things to help enhance the flavor of your games when dealing with Native Americans from Plains Tribes.
As a caveat, I will state that this is really only directly applipical to the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Sioux Tribe. But as we were, and still are the largest Tribe it does apply to most of the PLains Tribes.
Generalizations and Understanding the Indian Way.
Societies
Societies were the back-bone of the Tribe. Societies were equivalent to modern PACs, Charities, Unions and, yes, Special Ops.
Most tribes had a Society that anyone who wanted political influence belonged to. Fletcher/Bow makers might band together as a Society to share techniques and regulate quality. Warriors with special skills, such as working well at night might found a Society. The Marshals had their own society which took care of day to day law and order in the Tribe. Sometimes simply random chance might induct you into a Society, such as Bear Societies (I means you had been healed by a Medicine Man).
The most common Societies that would still be represented, in my opinion, in Shadowrun are the Social Societies.
The White Horse/Big Bellies Society.
Comprised of people with political aspirations. Traditionally comprise of the warriors whose fathers had been chiefs.
The Akicita, or Marshals.
Probably something along the line of a Fraternal Police Brotherhood. Traditionally the marshal kept the peace in the Tribe, and help people keep together during marches.
The Dog/Coyote Soldiers Society.
Kind of a militant version of the modern Salvation Army. Historically, it was limited to warriors, and was the main charitable arm of a Tribe. They would set the times for potlatch dinners and giveaways.
Heyoka Society.
Difficult to explain. A Heyoka is supposed to do everything contrary. He might walk around backwards, crossdress, sleep standing-up; etc. You might be born as a Heyoka, or you might be, well, kinda forced into it by Spirits. They still exist today, and they are kinda like comic relief. Traditionally having a certain type of dream about Thunder-Beings would force you to be a Heyoka for a Year, or until a certain condition was met. This is one of those odd flavor Societies, as few people would ever willing join, yet, their were always Heyokas running around being odd. Incidentally, the word Heyoka is translated into English as, "Clown".
And, Military Societies.
Owl Warrior Society (Some Tribes had Raccoon or other nocturnal critter).
Equivalent to Covert Ops Units. Traditionally comprised of warrior comfortable working at night in enemy territory. They were the most feared and derided of Societies because their actions (such as sneaking into an enemy camp at night an murdering sleeping enemy warriors) was considered taboo, or at least against the accepted forms of NA Warfare.
Ownership and Family
I think most people understand that the NA had very little notion of personal property. The vast majority of items/belongings were considered communal property. There were exceptions; clothing, ritual items, weapons, horses and food. However, even those personal properties were expected to be shared amongst your family, friends and Tribe (in that order).
The plains tribes had a impressive system of social welfare. Potlatch dinners were routinely held, where those who had plenty of food provided for those with little food. Certain societies would seasonally walk through the camps and ask for any spare items; robes, utensils, tools etc. Then they would announce a day where everything they had collected would be piled up in the center of the village and invite people to come and take it.
Native Americans from the plains had an extreme dislike of directly giving donations or other direct assistance to one another. Instead, they use a euphemism of "helping out". For example, instead of giving a friend food because he is hurt and cannot work, it would be impolite to simply show up with a bucket of chicken for him. Instead, you would send a relative over to your friend's house with some food, who would say something like, "Brandon wanted to help you out with some food."
In fact, the typical NA had many loyalties, and thus, many social responsibilities. He would have his blood family. Then his extended family. Then his neighbors. Then his Tribe. If any of them had needs, he would be expected to, "Help Out".
Incidentally, amongst most plains Tribes their was a ceremony (Hunka for the Lakota Sioux) that would bind to people together. This "blood brother" concept was taken very seriously. If your hunka went hungry and you had any food, even that reserved for your family, you were essentially violating your oath. I would assume that after the Awakening, that ceremony would have further consequences.
Religion and Magic
To start with, you shouldn't assume that the People in the NAN are automagically traditionalists. In modern society, traditionalist are few and far between. Moreover, they are a suspicious and crafty lot.
Most of the materials that early ethnographers wrote down about most of the plains tribes was outright falsehoods told to trick them. Only a few people were ever trusted enough for the Wicawakan to explain their actual rituals and stories to.
I would assume after the Awakening that many NA would flock back to traditional religions. I also assume that the real traditionalist would attempt to exclude the new converts as much as possible. I would envision a kind of class division like in the Tir between IE and other elves and the "new" elves.
Even today on the reservations, it is like two unrelated people share the same space, but cannot see one another. Traditionalist will only shop at certain stores, talk to certain people.
I had some relatives visit my house once that would refuse to sit in chairs. They just sat on the floor eating my food. In fact, only one of them, a distant cousin, said anything to me the whole time they were there. I didn’t invite them over either, they just showed up; I never knew why they came by.
That said, I would find it hard to believe that kind of sentiment would disappear over night.
So, back to religion. I would assume that the religious people of Sioux would be Traditionalist (no more than 10%), in the Native American Church (Mainstream traditionalism, given the awakening, 40-50% would seem right) and the rest identifying themselves as Christian (Catholic, mainly. Catholicism is Big Time in the reservations).
One thing that they would all have in common is the quirky concept of "Wakan." Some of you know that the Lakota Sioux "God" was named Wakan Tanka. What you might not know is that they name means, "the big mystery". Or more pointedly, "who knows who or what". In fact, the Lakota were a pantheistic people, and Wakan Tanka referred collectively to all the various gods, including Wi, the chief god.
Wakan is a fun concept. It can literally mean, "Sacred", "Unknown", and "Mysterious". The Lakota called horses Shunka Wakan, meaning Mysery/Gift Dog. My grand-uncle calls the Internet Wakan, I assume because he neither understands, nor wants to understand it.
Sometimes things that are Wakan are to be revered, other times they should be avoided.
This moves into a few notes on game-related Magic.
Two Common Lakota Sioux Magical Traditions
For starts, the term used for NA shamans from the plains is Medicine Man. For the Lakota, we say Wica Wakan (mystery man, holy man).
The Yuwipi cult was a off-branch of the standard Medicine Man. The Yuwipi are considered to have been founded by Horn Chips. The Yuwipi are difficult to explain to anyone who has never been to a singing, or meet. Some information claims that all Lakota shaman were called yuwipi, but that is erroneous, as the name refers to a specific ceremony preformed by the Wicawakan.
The Yuwipi are masters of spirits and ritual magic.
Attending a Yuwipi ceremony is a trip. They are a cross between P.T. Barnum and a Priest. They love practical jokes and tend to do magic tricks, and would certainly be talented Escape Artists. In fact they are mainly know for a ritual where they are tied up, and they get spirits to untie them.
People come to the Yuwipi for healing and for finding lost items or people. Also, I kid you not, to fix their televisions.
Yuwipi
The Yuwipi are Masters of Spirits, Healing and Finding Lost Items.
Combat: Spirits of Beasts
Detection: Wakinyan (Thunder Beings), Spirits of Air
Health: Spirits of Plants
Illusion: Spirits of Man
Manipulation: Spirits of Fire
Drain: Willpower + Charisma
The most common Mentor Sprits for Yuwipi are; Eagle (For Yuwipi specialized in Detection) and Trickster (Standard Yuwipi).
Other Lakota Traditions
Wica Wakan
The Wica Wakan are the Traditionalist Medicine Men of the Lakota. The Wica Wakan would concentrate on Summoning and on work on the Astral Plane.
Combat: Spirits of Beasts, Man or Ancestor (Player should choose)
Detection: Spirits of Air
Health: Spirits of Earth
Illusion: Spirits of Water
Manipulation: Spirits of Fire
Drain: Willpower + Charisma
As a caveat, I will state that this is really only directly applipical to the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Sioux Tribe. But as we were, and still are the largest Tribe it does apply to most of the PLains Tribes.
Generalizations and Understanding the Indian Way.
Societies
Societies were the back-bone of the Tribe. Societies were equivalent to modern PACs, Charities, Unions and, yes, Special Ops.
Most tribes had a Society that anyone who wanted political influence belonged to. Fletcher/Bow makers might band together as a Society to share techniques and regulate quality. Warriors with special skills, such as working well at night might found a Society. The Marshals had their own society which took care of day to day law and order in the Tribe. Sometimes simply random chance might induct you into a Society, such as Bear Societies (I means you had been healed by a Medicine Man).
The most common Societies that would still be represented, in my opinion, in Shadowrun are the Social Societies.
The White Horse/Big Bellies Society.
Comprised of people with political aspirations. Traditionally comprise of the warriors whose fathers had been chiefs.
The Akicita, or Marshals.
Probably something along the line of a Fraternal Police Brotherhood. Traditionally the marshal kept the peace in the Tribe, and help people keep together during marches.
The Dog/Coyote Soldiers Society.
Kind of a militant version of the modern Salvation Army. Historically, it was limited to warriors, and was the main charitable arm of a Tribe. They would set the times for potlatch dinners and giveaways.
Heyoka Society.
Difficult to explain. A Heyoka is supposed to do everything contrary. He might walk around backwards, crossdress, sleep standing-up; etc. You might be born as a Heyoka, or you might be, well, kinda forced into it by Spirits. They still exist today, and they are kinda like comic relief. Traditionally having a certain type of dream about Thunder-Beings would force you to be a Heyoka for a Year, or until a certain condition was met. This is one of those odd flavor Societies, as few people would ever willing join, yet, their were always Heyokas running around being odd. Incidentally, the word Heyoka is translated into English as, "Clown".
And, Military Societies.
Owl Warrior Society (Some Tribes had Raccoon or other nocturnal critter).
Equivalent to Covert Ops Units. Traditionally comprised of warrior comfortable working at night in enemy territory. They were the most feared and derided of Societies because their actions (such as sneaking into an enemy camp at night an murdering sleeping enemy warriors) was considered taboo, or at least against the accepted forms of NA Warfare.
Ownership and Family
I think most people understand that the NA had very little notion of personal property. The vast majority of items/belongings were considered communal property. There were exceptions; clothing, ritual items, weapons, horses and food. However, even those personal properties were expected to be shared amongst your family, friends and Tribe (in that order).
The plains tribes had a impressive system of social welfare. Potlatch dinners were routinely held, where those who had plenty of food provided for those with little food. Certain societies would seasonally walk through the camps and ask for any spare items; robes, utensils, tools etc. Then they would announce a day where everything they had collected would be piled up in the center of the village and invite people to come and take it.
Native Americans from the plains had an extreme dislike of directly giving donations or other direct assistance to one another. Instead, they use a euphemism of "helping out". For example, instead of giving a friend food because he is hurt and cannot work, it would be impolite to simply show up with a bucket of chicken for him. Instead, you would send a relative over to your friend's house with some food, who would say something like, "Brandon wanted to help you out with some food."
In fact, the typical NA had many loyalties, and thus, many social responsibilities. He would have his blood family. Then his extended family. Then his neighbors. Then his Tribe. If any of them had needs, he would be expected to, "Help Out".
Incidentally, amongst most plains Tribes their was a ceremony (Hunka for the Lakota Sioux) that would bind to people together. This "blood brother" concept was taken very seriously. If your hunka went hungry and you had any food, even that reserved for your family, you were essentially violating your oath. I would assume that after the Awakening, that ceremony would have further consequences.
Religion and Magic
To start with, you shouldn't assume that the People in the NAN are automagically traditionalists. In modern society, traditionalist are few and far between. Moreover, they are a suspicious and crafty lot.
Most of the materials that early ethnographers wrote down about most of the plains tribes was outright falsehoods told to trick them. Only a few people were ever trusted enough for the Wicawakan to explain their actual rituals and stories to.
I would assume after the Awakening that many NA would flock back to traditional religions. I also assume that the real traditionalist would attempt to exclude the new converts as much as possible. I would envision a kind of class division like in the Tir between IE and other elves and the "new" elves.
Even today on the reservations, it is like two unrelated people share the same space, but cannot see one another. Traditionalist will only shop at certain stores, talk to certain people.
I had some relatives visit my house once that would refuse to sit in chairs. They just sat on the floor eating my food. In fact, only one of them, a distant cousin, said anything to me the whole time they were there. I didn’t invite them over either, they just showed up; I never knew why they came by.
That said, I would find it hard to believe that kind of sentiment would disappear over night.
So, back to religion. I would assume that the religious people of Sioux would be Traditionalist (no more than 10%), in the Native American Church (Mainstream traditionalism, given the awakening, 40-50% would seem right) and the rest identifying themselves as Christian (Catholic, mainly. Catholicism is Big Time in the reservations).
One thing that they would all have in common is the quirky concept of "Wakan." Some of you know that the Lakota Sioux "God" was named Wakan Tanka. What you might not know is that they name means, "the big mystery". Or more pointedly, "who knows who or what". In fact, the Lakota were a pantheistic people, and Wakan Tanka referred collectively to all the various gods, including Wi, the chief god.
Wakan is a fun concept. It can literally mean, "Sacred", "Unknown", and "Mysterious". The Lakota called horses Shunka Wakan, meaning Mysery/Gift Dog. My grand-uncle calls the Internet Wakan, I assume because he neither understands, nor wants to understand it.
Sometimes things that are Wakan are to be revered, other times they should be avoided.
This moves into a few notes on game-related Magic.
Two Common Lakota Sioux Magical Traditions
For starts, the term used for NA shamans from the plains is Medicine Man. For the Lakota, we say Wica Wakan (mystery man, holy man).
The Yuwipi cult was a off-branch of the standard Medicine Man. The Yuwipi are considered to have been founded by Horn Chips. The Yuwipi are difficult to explain to anyone who has never been to a singing, or meet. Some information claims that all Lakota shaman were called yuwipi, but that is erroneous, as the name refers to a specific ceremony preformed by the Wicawakan.
The Yuwipi are masters of spirits and ritual magic.
Attending a Yuwipi ceremony is a trip. They are a cross between P.T. Barnum and a Priest. They love practical jokes and tend to do magic tricks, and would certainly be talented Escape Artists. In fact they are mainly know for a ritual where they are tied up, and they get spirits to untie them.
People come to the Yuwipi for healing and for finding lost items or people. Also, I kid you not, to fix their televisions.
Yuwipi
The Yuwipi are Masters of Spirits, Healing and Finding Lost Items.
Combat: Spirits of Beasts
Detection: Wakinyan (Thunder Beings), Spirits of Air
Health: Spirits of Plants
Illusion: Spirits of Man
Manipulation: Spirits of Fire
Drain: Willpower + Charisma
The most common Mentor Sprits for Yuwipi are; Eagle (For Yuwipi specialized in Detection) and Trickster (Standard Yuwipi).
Other Lakota Traditions
Wica Wakan
The Wica Wakan are the Traditionalist Medicine Men of the Lakota. The Wica Wakan would concentrate on Summoning and on work on the Astral Plane.
Combat: Spirits of Beasts, Man or Ancestor (Player should choose)
Detection: Spirits of Air
Health: Spirits of Earth
Illusion: Spirits of Water
Manipulation: Spirits of Fire
Drain: Willpower + Charisma
Awesome! Thanks for the real life perspective. This is great info.
This was some great info! Very helpful! Now, if we could somebody to hit the other tribes that way...
Also, I'm currently playing a Cherokee techno. I need to know the kinds of obligations her tribe would hold her to, etc. Do you know where I could look up this info?
Also, I'm currently playing a Cherokee techno. I need to know the kinds of obligations her tribe would hold her to, etc. Do you know where I could look up this info?
Thanks for sharing that with us. Very interesting.
It's good to see a brother sharing this info.
Now about that I hate Injuns just kidding...Not funny.
Now about that I hate Injuns just kidding...Not funny.
That was awesome, thanks for imparting your knowledge to us.
So if I understand this correctly, the Sioux Wildcats are likely organized as a warrior society within the military?
This is handy info.
This is handy info.
In response to the previous post. That would be most likely.
Infact, I never got around to addressing Lkaota military.
Number one thing about the regular military: It would not be forced service; the would probably have to many people, and have to divert recruits to civil service. The Lakota, by percentage, had sent more people into American wars than any other group of Americans (post reservation life). I have very few realatives that are not veterans, active duty or in the NG.
Number two. The Lakota/Sioux society would likely require military/civil service for full citizenship (i.e., the Right to Vote). Traditionally, only men who had counted coup in battle could address the council. Figure that in the future, counting coup would not be practicle, and women's rights, I just assume that would be the comprimise.
Number three. There should be a strong emphasis on solitary troopers. Small units are fine, to be sure, but any warrior worth his salt would prefer to gain glory alone (although being supported would be fine). I always imagined that the Sioux would have a large amount of mobile infantry motorcycle troops/scounts and one-man Tbirds (I think there was a Lobo or something that lookied right once). Also, considering some of the terrain they operate it, it would make the most sense.
Fourth, and last for now, they would likely have some very insane special units. There were certain societies that vowed never to back out of fights. (incidently, anyone could proclaim that vow for a fight by simply choosing not to braid or bind their hair before the battle). Assuming they lived long enough, they would be a serious force to reckon with.
If anyone else has any specific questions about the Sioux, and what the might be like in SR, I'd be happy to address them.
Infact, I never got around to addressing Lkaota military.
Number one thing about the regular military: It would not be forced service; the would probably have to many people, and have to divert recruits to civil service. The Lakota, by percentage, had sent more people into American wars than any other group of Americans (post reservation life). I have very few realatives that are not veterans, active duty or in the NG.
Number two. The Lakota/Sioux society would likely require military/civil service for full citizenship (i.e., the Right to Vote). Traditionally, only men who had counted coup in battle could address the council. Figure that in the future, counting coup would not be practicle, and women's rights, I just assume that would be the comprimise.
Number three. There should be a strong emphasis on solitary troopers. Small units are fine, to be sure, but any warrior worth his salt would prefer to gain glory alone (although being supported would be fine). I always imagined that the Sioux would have a large amount of mobile infantry motorcycle troops/scounts and one-man Tbirds (I think there was a Lobo or something that lookied right once). Also, considering some of the terrain they operate it, it would make the most sense.
Fourth, and last for now, they would likely have some very insane special units. There were certain societies that vowed never to back out of fights. (incidently, anyone could proclaim that vow for a fight by simply choosing not to braid or bind their hair before the battle). Assuming they lived long enough, they would be a serious force to reckon with.
If anyone else has any specific questions about the Sioux, and what the might be like in SR, I'd be happy to address them.
| QUOTE |
| Fourth, and last for now, they would likely have some very insane special units. There were certain societies that vowed never to back out of fights. (incidently, anyone could proclaim that vow for a fight by simply choosing not to braid or bind their hair before the battle). Assuming they lived long enough, they would be a serious force to reckon with. |
Well the Sioux Wildcats are widely regarded as the best special forces in the world, so I guess that applies pretty well.
| QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist) |
| Well the Sioux Wildcats are widely regarded as the best special forces in the world, so I guess that applies pretty well. |
"One of the best" would be a safer phrase. For instance, there are the Tir Ghosts who might take exception.
That was fantastic! Info like this is what I love love love about playing SR. I'm certainly going to use this info (and when I get SR4 and the new magic book, I might look into designing magical traditions around various socities mentioned and use them - I'll have to wait and see how those rules are first).
I've only used one Lakota character that I can recall - actually a hermetic professor a summoner character of mine had in university who I used as a lvl 1 contact. The character was from a hermetic tradition, but all the "color" aspects of his magic was Native as that was how he learned magic in the NAN. He was an early proponent of the "all-magical-traditions-are-one" theory (I can't think of the name at the moment).
Anyway, I'll probably use a few more Lakota characters after all that cool info. Thanks again!
Mike
I've only used one Lakota character that I can recall - actually a hermetic professor a summoner character of mine had in university who I used as a lvl 1 contact. The character was from a hermetic tradition, but all the "color" aspects of his magic was Native as that was how he learned magic in the NAN. He was an early proponent of the "all-magical-traditions-are-one" theory (I can't think of the name at the moment).
Anyway, I'll probably use a few more Lakota characters after all that cool info. Thanks again!
Mike
SO any way we could get a little rundown on population centers and economic activity? Looks like the 2070 Sioux nation includes Cheyenne, Cody, Sheridan, Casper, Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Whitefish, Great Falls, Rapid City, and Pierre to name the major ones. I assume the Sioux Military continues to operate the many Air Force and Army Bases taken from the US. Do the Coal, Oil, Mineral Extraction, and Natural Gas industries still operate near Sheridan and Billings under more ecologically sound methods or are they shut down altogether?
For the above. I will look into it.
The division allotted to the Sioux and other plains tribes was rather arbitrary, and represents their further excursions to the West. As you may know, the traditional area of post-European contact Sioux was from about the Platte river in NE, to just above the Canadian border (present day) and from the Mississippi river (and Minnesota) to the beginning of the Rockies.
For some basic general beginnings...
Present day Lakota, and indeed most plains tribes, have nothing to do with Casinos (the NE Winnebago are an aberration in that respect), also, the Lakota have consistently refuse federal reparations as we believe that would constitute a contracted purchase of our Treaty defined lands.
So, basically, we would be screwed in the future, except for a few minor things.
Land. We controlled, and to an extent in the SR universe would still control, a substantial part of the bread-basket and livestock resources. In addition, we would have decent access to rare minerals such as gold and plutonium.
Education. The present day Lakota have at least two things that almost no other tribe in the Americas have; One, Doctoral courses in Sovereignty issues and permanent Observer Status in the United Nations. Why? Because we are planning to someday, achieve a degree of true autonomy. Therefore, at least as the game is concerned, there should have been at least some surviving Lakota who had already envisioned a stable separate government.
Technology. This would surprise most people, but the Lakota would and do embrace technology that is not detrimental to either the society or the environment. (As an aside, I live in the middle of the US, in a place called Lincoln, NE. People are always surprised when I mention that our main business is IT related work. We have oodles of private software companies here.)
Foreign Relations. If you do not already know, most of Europe is obsessed with NAs. In addition, the Lakota have a very weird bond with many cultures, the most obvious being the Japanese. I would predict in the SR universe that the Lakota's Tech Sector would have welcomed the Japanese warmly in all things but a military presence.
The Pot. The Sioux nation would not be comprised solely of Nas. Tribal membership would probably be at 1/8th, but many other ethnicities would constitute the bulk of the people living in the Nation. Today, there are around 2 million Lakota over 3/8ths. Assuming we really get it bad in the camps and through VITAS and such, You are talking 750k- 1 million tribal members for a huge chunk of land.
Obviously, the original government was geared on traditional philosophies, and certainly many back-to-land types would have bolstered the “Indian Way”, but, it would be safe to assume that the society as a whole would not be terribly different from UCAS in most respects other than government procedures.
I should also point out for the UCAS and CAS fans that there would probably be a significantly large section of both the NA and others population that were sympathizers working to rejoin the old US, or whatever is left of it. Why? To start, many of us Plains types have dual-citizenship, but would say, if asked, that we are Americans. The Indian Wars have been over for about a 120 years, and sometimes, you just have to let it go.
That would mean that there would be occasional separatist movements, but only (this is important for Indian Haters, I hope they were kidding) only, if they were given premium access to sacred lands and a degree of autonomy. And (always more) simple things like first crack at archeological finds and the right to protect ancestral belongings and remains. Most modern Lakota would be happy enough if we could practice our rituals on our lands without being told that the Rainbow Gathering has reserved it for 5 years. That still pisses me off.
That all being said, I will try to figure out the Population centers etc. for anyone interested in a Bloods perspective on the SR future.
The division allotted to the Sioux and other plains tribes was rather arbitrary, and represents their further excursions to the West. As you may know, the traditional area of post-European contact Sioux was from about the Platte river in NE, to just above the Canadian border (present day) and from the Mississippi river (and Minnesota) to the beginning of the Rockies.
For some basic general beginnings...
Present day Lakota, and indeed most plains tribes, have nothing to do with Casinos (the NE Winnebago are an aberration in that respect), also, the Lakota have consistently refuse federal reparations as we believe that would constitute a contracted purchase of our Treaty defined lands.
So, basically, we would be screwed in the future, except for a few minor things.
Land. We controlled, and to an extent in the SR universe would still control, a substantial part of the bread-basket and livestock resources. In addition, we would have decent access to rare minerals such as gold and plutonium.
Education. The present day Lakota have at least two things that almost no other tribe in the Americas have; One, Doctoral courses in Sovereignty issues and permanent Observer Status in the United Nations. Why? Because we are planning to someday, achieve a degree of true autonomy. Therefore, at least as the game is concerned, there should have been at least some surviving Lakota who had already envisioned a stable separate government.
Technology. This would surprise most people, but the Lakota would and do embrace technology that is not detrimental to either the society or the environment. (As an aside, I live in the middle of the US, in a place called Lincoln, NE. People are always surprised when I mention that our main business is IT related work. We have oodles of private software companies here.)
Foreign Relations. If you do not already know, most of Europe is obsessed with NAs. In addition, the Lakota have a very weird bond with many cultures, the most obvious being the Japanese. I would predict in the SR universe that the Lakota's Tech Sector would have welcomed the Japanese warmly in all things but a military presence.
The Pot. The Sioux nation would not be comprised solely of Nas. Tribal membership would probably be at 1/8th, but many other ethnicities would constitute the bulk of the people living in the Nation. Today, there are around 2 million Lakota over 3/8ths. Assuming we really get it bad in the camps and through VITAS and such, You are talking 750k- 1 million tribal members for a huge chunk of land.
Obviously, the original government was geared on traditional philosophies, and certainly many back-to-land types would have bolstered the “Indian Way”, but, it would be safe to assume that the society as a whole would not be terribly different from UCAS in most respects other than government procedures.
I should also point out for the UCAS and CAS fans that there would probably be a significantly large section of both the NA and others population that were sympathizers working to rejoin the old US, or whatever is left of it. Why? To start, many of us Plains types have dual-citizenship, but would say, if asked, that we are Americans. The Indian Wars have been over for about a 120 years, and sometimes, you just have to let it go.
That would mean that there would be occasional separatist movements, but only (this is important for Indian Haters, I hope they were kidding) only, if they were given premium access to sacred lands and a degree of autonomy. And (always more) simple things like first crack at archeological finds and the right to protect ancestral belongings and remains. Most modern Lakota would be happy enough if we could practice our rituals on our lands without being told that the Rainbow Gathering has reserved it for 5 years. That still pisses me off.
That all being said, I will try to figure out the Population centers etc. for anyone interested in a Bloods perspective on the SR future.
| QUOTE (stevebugge) |
| SO any way we could get a little rundown on population centers and economic activity? Looks like the 2070 Sioux nation includes Cheyenne, Cody, Sheridan, Casper, Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Whitefish, Great Falls, Rapid City, and Pierre to name the major ones. I assume the Sioux Military continues to operate the many Air Force and Army Bases taken from the US. Do the Coal, Oil, Mineral Extraction, and Natural Gas industries still operate near Sheridan and Billings under more ecologically sound methods or are they shut down altogether? |
A more specific response.
I beg off on the first question for now.
The Sioux Military would have no problem appropriating any abandoned or taken assests.
Most corporations that previously existed in the SR world would have been instantly Nationalized. I assume the shock of the GGD would have allowed that.
But, over time, the government would have re-privitized them to corps with the least invasive technologies. Moreover, I think the Council would have specifically chosen (in the later period) AA corps to do the work, eschewing AAA corps if possible.
The damage in most acses has been done, so try to clean it up as much as possible, but do not shot your own foot.
| QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist) |
| Well the Sioux Wildcats are widely regarded as the best special forces in the world, so I guess that applies pretty well. |
No, just like every other special forces/specops/uber-L33T military and security unit in the Shadowrun sourcebooks, they're regarded as "one" of the best units, it's members as "some" of the best operators. They always brag on whatever country they're yapping about, just like modern-day specops conversations about SAS/Delta/SEALS/Force Recon/Whatever.
Occasionally, the sourcebooks (just like those real-life conversationalists) will be more specific, and as such, more honest and forthcoming about their subject matter.
The Wildcats are generally seen as individually tough, hard-core, largely unmodified mo'fo's. They don't have as many fancy toys, they don't rely on as much super cool tech, and they work alone or in very small groups, real far out into the wild, fairly often. Long range patrols, that sort of thing. They might be "the best" at that.
On the other hand, Ghosts are (for instance) maybe "the best" at integrating (read: using and abusing) magic into their routine of asskickery, stealth, and (given recent events in the Tir) close-in urban ops (look at the SAS during the Troubles in Ireland -- you get real good at that sort of thing, real fast). More Rainbow Six, less Ghost Recon, for those familiar with those games. Man for man and point for point in terms of karma/training/badassery, are they "better" than Wildcats, or vice versa? No. They just have different areas of expertise.
Just like SEALs versus SAS versus SBS versus Delta versus whatever. Everyone's good at all of it (or they wouldn't be very special special operatives), but each team and tradition tends to be great at their own little niche, generally speaking. Any conversation about Red Samurai, Wildcats, Ghosts, Jaguar Guards, Ares Firewatch, Tir Na Nog Paladins (the name of which I forget at the moment), blah blah blah -- any of those conversations have to be very very general (IE, "They could all kill me with just their left pinkies") or very, very, specific (IE, "Ares Firewatch is probably better at killing Bugs than Tir Ghosts") in order to be honest.
Thus endeth the thread highjack.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| They always brag on whatever country they're yapping about, just like modern-day specops conversations about SAS/Delta/SEALS/Force Recon/Whatever |
Hey! You did not mention the German KSK! You stu...OK, I got your point.
Because it's three in the morning, I'm at work, and all my really cool books about various specops-style units throughout history and around the globe are at home. I had to make due with the names I remembered off the top of my head.
| QUOTE (Oracle) | ||
|
It is funny, I always knew this post would become, "But what about the Wildcats?"
Which is why I choose not to mention them.
IMHO, the Wildcats are just PR. Heldover from the GGD. They may be equivalent to SpecOps, but, the name value alone carries them. Not to disparage current Seals, but a similar situation exists. I remember the week after 9/11 and a 58 yr old friend was activated. Every one asked, Seal? He laughed and laughed. (Incidently, he served in Vietnam, and only told me one story about using tanks to ruin people's houses over, becuse the USA Gov had to pay to replace them. and apparently many villagers knew that.)
I would assume, like any intelligent military, the true Special Forces are virtually unknowable. No public records, no books about them, no trid holiday specials.
I personally think that the Lakota/Sioux should be on par with the both the Tirs. Although we do not have IE or dragons to back us, we would embrace any magical technique. Moreover, because of just that, we would not have anyone Force-feeding us ancient dogma.
And considering the shakedowns in SR4 about the Taringire, I would only assume that the Ghosts are equivalent to the Wildcats.
But, TLAG is always in efect, as you noted, so if it works, run with it.
For the Wildcats, I would agree, indiviualism and small (small) unit tactics would have garnered them a name. But, like the Akicita of tradition, it is just a name-means nothing when the drek hits the fan.
I just kinda assume, so I do not get headaches, that most major Governments have equivical resources.
The reason I said the best is that I seem to remember reading somewhere that when integrated wargames were happening the Wildcats came out on top.
However, that could just be my brain going weirdo on me.
However, that could just be my brain going weirdo on me.
| QUOTE (Big Crow) | ||
A more specific response. I beg off on the first question for now. The Sioux Military would have no problem appropriating any abandoned or taken assests. Most corporations that previously existed in the SR world would have been instantly Nationalized. I assume the shock of the GGD would have allowed that. But, over time, the government would have re-privitized them to corps with the least invasive technologies. Moreover, I think the Council would have specifically chosen (in the later period) AA corps to do the work, eschewing AAA corps if possible. The damage in most acses has been done, so try to clean it up as much as possible, but do not shot your own foot. |
Note to smugglers, sounds like FE Warren Air Force Base outside of Cheyenne is still somthing you want to avoid.
From that description I think it's safe to say that strip mining coal is probably no longer occuring but Natural Gas and Oil which, using the right technology can be extracted with minimal impact probably still are. It is probably reasonable to assume that the SR Sioux Nation is heavily involved in Agri-Business (probably with an eye towards low volume high margin organic markets) and may have a nationalized petroleum company. High Tech is probably a vibrant secondary industry but the Sioux Reputation is likely overshadowed (or over spent on PR) by the Pueblo Corporate Council. Tourism (fishing, hunting, skiing, Yellowstone, EcoTourism) is also likely a considerable source of income for the Sioux Nation, guide service is probably required to protect tourists from awakened predators and to prevent tourists from violating sacred lands or damaging sensitive environments.
Sound reasonable?
I grew up in SW Wyoming, right on the Sioux/Ute border. So close, in fact, that I can't tell whether my home town is in Sioux or Ute. Anyway, there's a lot of coal mining that goes on there (in fact, my hometown started as a coal town for the railroad) and one power plant that (at least when I moved away 7 years ago) ran on coal. In SR, I've run some stuff that invovled the Ute still using coal power and mining coal and the Sioux being really unhappy about it because it's so dirty. Ute needs the money, though, so...
Anyway, just some ideas.
Anyway, just some ideas.
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