of course, the charactes will.

I mean, would any of them carry a light pistol when they are going up against a squad of cybered up trolls? heck no

IRL, car enthusiasts, gun collectors, etc, will argue the merits if their favorite toys, so would shadowrunners. and runners would be much more passionat about it, if they are wrong, they die.

Yeah but in real life, you have people argue about which guns/cars they prefer purely on ascetic reasons as well. Plus there is a wide variety of differences in real life gear to make a person prefer one or the other. A Shadowrun 4 gun has much fewer variables. So people just judge them on how much damage can they do vs the cost. Then they whip out the old abacus to see which one is the "best". I mean, look at the argument of the thread, the stats for the wares are pretty few. Cost, benefits, essence cost, availability. But there is nothing to say how it "feels" to have either one. No testimonials by hardened street vets. Nothing, just stats. So when you try to figure out which one is better OOC I think it's silly. It would make a great "roleplay" argument between two street sams to argue the virtues of either one for various non game related reasons. As a GM, you like to see variety, and when players put too much emphasis on the numbers you can come up with a lot of clones.
Player 1 "I play a hermetic Mage"
GM "Cool, what spells do you know?"
Player 1"Invisibility, Stun Bolt, and Heal"
GM "OK, what about you player 2."
Player 2 "I play a Shaman"
GM "What spells do you have?"
Player 2 "Um, Invisibility, Stun Bolt, and Heal"
GM " No one wanted to sling a Fireball, eh ?"
Both Players in unison "No way, look at that Drain Code!"
GM stabs himself with pencil.

No offense taken bro. Just voicing a long standing beef I've had with the state of role playing for years. Like I said, as a GM, I don't care how my other players go about it, as long as they are having fun. But to answer Jaid's question (he is absolutely correct in pointing out that any shadowrunner worth their salt should have quieter stun spells), but my argument is why? Did the character start out knowing they were destined to have to be a stealthy sneaky B and E sort of guy? What if the mage was a flashy street mage that liked pyrotechnic flair was the only mage the Johnson could hire in a pinch. I'm not saying "clones" can not be distinct and have different personalities. It's just when almost every Street Sam I've ever ran has Wired (or Synaptic Boosters) and smart links it starts feeling a bit like D and D. The Shadowrun System (Especially 4th Ed) gives a player so many options its nuts. I just don't want it to degenerate into getting "the best" option or it will be like 3rd Ed all over again where everyone had Form Fitting Body Armor like they sold it at an Az-Mart Blue Light Special.
That being said, that's just a gripe from me, and I know not everyone plays like that, and no one wants to be accused of playing like that. I'm not even saying min/maxing is a bad thing. Some people do not like playing a less than perfect character, and that's cool as well. But please, try playing a Troll Mage that thinks heal spells are for pansy Elves, or a Cutting edge Street Sam that thinks Synaptic booster sand Wired Reflexes give you cancer so he goes without. It's just a different path to kind of force you to "think outside the box" so to speak.
Hey and thanks for starting this topic. I know I took it off in another rant, but it really got me thinking. Thanks to everyone else who's read my inane ramblings and have replied back as well.

As you can see, Syn3/RE3-Normal (+3/+3) costs 270k and 3.9 essence. Wired-3-Normal (+3/+3) normally costs 5.0 and 100k. Syn3/Rea3 is 170k more expensive, but you save 1.1 essence-ish.

Syn3/RE3-Normal 270k/3.9 vs Wired 3-Delta 1000k/2.5.

Now, Syn3/RE3-Beta(1080k, 2.73) vs Wired-3(1000k, 2.5) is the only area where it gets wonky. But, then again, the essence is split between Bioware and Cyberware, so at least part of it will be halved.

Edit: Credit for this chart goes out to Nick -- thanks for doing the math and formatting it.

Here's a character that may not have athletics at all (A Troll for example). He lives in Seattle, but has never gone swimming, the public pools are too full of Norms that gawk and stare, and would you want to swim in the water surrounding Seattle. He can run, but never learned how to "sprint" properly (ie uses Athletics to Boost his run). Climbing seems pretty silly for him too cause everywhere he goes he can take the stairs or ride an elevator. Plus Rock Climbing is for the Hick Trolls that live out in the Salish. Since he never took Track and Field in high school (let alone probably went to high school), he can't jump for crap either. He can, however, punch people to death with his fists, and has learned some stealth and electronics busting into Coffin Motels and mug unsuspecting and sleepy norms. A few years later he's become a Shadowrunner, but you know what? He still hasn't actually learned any athletics. He may regret that later, but's that's just how it happens some times.

They will be dead, inside the box.

That was funny, not true, but damn funny.

Why do I even need to buy the book?

Eventually you guys are going to post the entire book soon.

So far I have the magic list and other tid bits.

Exactly. This is why I got so crotchety.
But TeOdio, maybe I took your remarks a bit too personally. Not my intention to back at you. But what I mean is, the characters in the game are all going to be aware of the same stats that we are. Not in the same numerical terms, of course, but these points will be debated in character as well as out, and I'm trying to get a sense of who, in the shadow community, will use what types of gear.

Now excuse me while I rant like an old man on a porch: Back in the previous versions, even though there were even more augmentations (reflex enhancing or otherwise) there were so many extra rules in play that none of the enhancements could ever be considered flat-out better than any of the others (not counting money). There was always some tradeoff, be it reaction vs. extra dice, or bio vs. essence, or compatability with other ware, or upgradability (like boosted reflexes), or brain damage (like MBW). There was always something to give the shadowrunners something to argue about, in character, without resorting to made-up flavor text. Not that flavor text is bad. Flavor text is good. Repeat, GOOOOOD! I miss the two or three posts of runners argueing over every piece of gear, and I still use my SR1-3 books because most gear got a full page write-up the first time it was introduced into the game, and aside from the stat blocks, most of it is still perfectly valid. Well, it was through 3rd, anyway. I'm losing the point.
My point is, it seems like the simplified system doesn't have room for as many different peices of gear without one totally trumping the other. Simplification and streamlining are good, I guess. I don't really like that bioware is now different from cyberware because, um, well, because it's "squishy", and for basically no other reason. <---(please nobody take this as anything but humor and point out to me non-squishy bioware, I already know there is)
Maybe I'm just masochistic, but I like some complexity, and I'm trying to decide if I think they've oversimplified. Some of the stuff works SO much better, I won't deny that for a second, but other areas seem over-simplified. Oh well, I guess the supplements will take care of that, right?
Okay, I've made my point, I'm sorry. I promise I won't post again until I have something new to say.

Actually I think you have that backwards. In a long-term game you will have the time and money to upgrade your wired reflexes with better stuff whereas in the short term you only have what you have. So I'd say that in some cases, such as where you want better gear other than cyber/bio, you are better off in both cases with wired or else you synaptic in the one shot so you can cyber up more.

Besides in a one shot drugs are WAY more effective than just about any cyber/bio you could get. I'd rather one shot that troll that takes Nitro, Jazz, and Kamikaze in combat because he has just as many passes, gets massive bonuses to his stats, and he gets something like 12 boxes of high pain tolerance. I'm Invincible!...until my drugs wear off. But it's a one shot so who cares?

I think in the time it would take you to reproduce the book from our postings here, even working at a minimum wage job you could have earned enough to buy your own, and one for all of us.

Actually, why don't you get on that? I could use a burger and an extra copy