Please help me balance the cost of this quality:
Full Version: New Positive Quality
| QUOTE |
| Bio-engineered A character with this quality was born with bioware already a part of his body; either as part of a deliberate experiment, or perhaps the intended recipient of the bioware died before the bioware was ready for implantation, and the creator(s) of the bioware let the host grow into viability. The net effect is that bioware purchased at character creation has no essense cost, however, the essense cost should be tracked separately, and the essense cost of the bioware the character was born with and the essense cost of future bioware cannot total more than 6. Bioware purchased through this positive quality can be of any grade, however, the final cost of all such bioware is doubled, and can only be purchased at character creation. The following bioware cannot be purchased as part of bioengineering: Muscle Augmentation, Muscle Toner, Enhanced Articulation, and Bone Density. |
This quality is something I'm thinking about for a campaign theme, what I need is how to balance the cost compared to other things the characters could spend starting points on. Personally, I feel that doubling the cost of bioware at character creation almost covers it, giving the characters the option of sacrificing initial power for greater potential in the future, however, it might prompt players to purchase too much bioware to start the game, leaving them too few points to build an effective character.
Thematically, I'd like to give either "Sensitive System" or "Weak Immune System" as free negative qualities (no bonus points gained, just take the flaw), however, I think that such might make the positive quality too expensive if I still double the cost of the bioware the character is born with.
I specifically don't want to prevent or severely punish magical ability, however, maybe this quality should cost more for character with magical ability (even though the character won't have much actual magical ability because of starting resources spent on bioware).
So I guess my real question is: What is a fairly balanced cost for this positive quality?
1) Starting bioware costs double, no limits on bioware grade or how much can be purchased. (Maybe costs triple for magical characters or technomancers)
2) Charge a standard cost of 10 (non-magical) or 15 (magical) build points for the positive quality (compare with magical ability). Then let character buy bioware at normal cost and consider all starting bioware to be something they were born with.
3) Create standard bioware packages, and charge a cost based on whats in the package (really time consuming, and makes it less likeable to most players).
4) Option one, but apply negative qualities for no bonus points (give sensitive system to magically active characters, and either weak immune system or and odd allergy worth 5 points to non-magical characters).
5) Something else entirely?
A final note, this is primarily for a campaign idea I have, and all characters should have this quality, all I want to do is balance it with other starting costs.
Thanks in advance for your input,
S'Ren
How about instead of making a quality, you give them a higher BP usage available? That's a good 'super soldier' thing to do. Maybe raise the availability cap or other things too.
Might be more sensible for a 'super soldier' theorem.
Might be more sensible for a 'super soldier' theorem.
For the campaign theme, the characters should be born with special abilities. The only way to get that with more build points is letting them spend more build points on cybeware and bioware, and let them break the 35-point cap on positive qualities, but that still makes magical characters less viable (with magic attribute being purchased, having any augmentation under standard rules pretty well limits a starting character to a magic attribute of one, maybe two).
Thanks for your input,
S'Ren
Thanks for your input,
S'Ren
Allow Delta Grade Bioware, save the Positive Quality.
also, saying you can't have muscle toner, aug, bone density, etc make no sense in relation to the born thing, because those are the most likely to be succesful in birth, and at the least some of the first attempts would be in that area since it's a simpler thing.
Muscle Toner/Augmentation, Bone Density and Enhanced Articulation just seemed like treatments, not vat-grown, living organs added to a metahuman body. Thats the only reason I didn't want them implated before birth, because my interpretation of the text doesn't fit the bio-engeneered flavor.
Allowing delta-grade at char-gen doesn't help unless I give them hundreds of extra points to cover the cost, and again, basically makes it "no mages allowed." A mage with a magic score of three to start and requiring initiation to beat that magic score will basically make the mage useless.
Allowing delta-grade at char-gen doesn't help unless I give them hundreds of extra points to cover the cost, and again, basically makes it "no mages allowed." A mage with a magic score of three to start and requiring initiation to beat that magic score will basically make the mage useless.
let the players decide if it's useless =p
they'll min/max to thier hearts content to figure it out.
they'll min/max to thier hearts content to figure it out.
All bioware is grown in non-viable clones whose sole purpose is to grow the bioware, and then die.
So they say... but actually they're made in viable clones who are walking around and have no clue of their fate until it is time for them to be processed!!! Oh wait, that's the script for 'The Island'... 
Gawd, I hate that movie, mainly from a liability issue, no company would create viable clones like that, that's just plain stupid and more wasteful in money and the litigation/liability aspect. Gawd, the only option is to replace people with the clones so that the company can have control over key folks in the population, but that movie didn't go in that direction from what I've been told.
As to your problem, since it's a campaign, you pick the bioware that's installed in them. Are they aware what has been enhanced in them? Kinda like the mysterious cyberware thing from SR3? If you get to pick, that can kinda help solve the problem of balancing it. That way a couple of the characters have one set of bioware since they were made from one batch, another set is from a different batch. You can allow the weaker/newer players to have a slightly better starting set of bioware to offset their playstyle, etc...
Gawd, I hate that movie, mainly from a liability issue, no company would create viable clones like that, that's just plain stupid and more wasteful in money and the litigation/liability aspect. Gawd, the only option is to replace people with the clones so that the company can have control over key folks in the population, but that movie didn't go in that direction from what I've been told.As to your problem, since it's a campaign, you pick the bioware that's installed in them. Are they aware what has been enhanced in them? Kinda like the mysterious cyberware thing from SR3? If you get to pick, that can kinda help solve the problem of balancing it. That way a couple of the characters have one set of bioware since they were made from one batch, another set is from a different batch. You can allow the weaker/newer players to have a slightly better starting set of bioware to offset their playstyle, etc...
I think your idea has a lot of potential. I may steal it/hybrid it with "The Island".
I will agree with Liper that I don't like your restrictions on muscle toner, aug, bone density, etc. I do see them as the more likely augments grown on clones, rather than growing them in a vat on a protien scaffold, without the remainder of the body to help keep it as viable tissue. But I do see your point, I simply don't agree with it.
Basically, using a hybrid of The Island and Dark Angel for concepts, I would offer the ability as a dual positive/negative quality with a net of zero. For negative, I would probably use Allergy (15 points, at least moderate), or Sensitive system, or Allergy (5 points) AND Low Pain Tolerance.
I would then throw in the Hunted from SR3, you know, as a freebie.
I would also increase the BP they can spend on bio, not sure by how much.
I would not run normal characters along side these, it would be an all-inclusive thing, and after the first couple of sessions, I would know what they could handle and could then make things challenging.
I don't know about the feasiblity of running these characters along side normal ones, but after playtesting it some, I could probably come up with decently balanced rules.
[ Spoiler ]
I will agree with Liper that I don't like your restrictions on muscle toner, aug, bone density, etc. I do see them as the more likely augments grown on clones, rather than growing them in a vat on a protien scaffold, without the remainder of the body to help keep it as viable tissue. But I do see your point, I simply don't agree with it.
Basically, using a hybrid of The Island and Dark Angel for concepts, I would offer the ability as a dual positive/negative quality with a net of zero. For negative, I would probably use Allergy (15 points, at least moderate), or Sensitive system, or Allergy (5 points) AND Low Pain Tolerance.
I would then throw in the Hunted from SR3, you know, as a freebie.
I would also increase the BP they can spend on bio, not sure by how much.
I would not run normal characters along side these, it would be an all-inclusive thing, and after the first couple of sessions, I would know what they could handle and could then make things challenging.
I don't know about the feasiblity of running these characters along side normal ones, but after playtesting it some, I could probably come up with decently balanced rules.
you could go the route of that cheesy movie, I forget it's name but I want to say it was called universal soldier?
Where they had died but been revived, thier bodies generated excessive heat and they needed iced down regularly but had superhuman strength, cunning etc.
Where they had died but been revived, thier bodies generated excessive heat and they needed iced down regularly but had superhuman strength, cunning etc.
| QUOTE (littlesean) |
| I think your idea has a lot of potential. I may steal it/hybrid it with "The Island". |
You mean that remake of Parts: The Clonus Horror?
Thanks for your thoughts folks.
For the campaign I'm hoping to run, if it gets enough players, all the characters will have been bio-engineered. The only mechanics-based reason I'd like to get a rules set for bioware characters start with not costing essense is so that mages aren't counted out or severely gimped. From a theme standpoint, being born with the bioware shouldn't have as strong (or any IMO) an impact on your astral form. It should make magical ability far less likely, but not necessarily imposible or severely hampered (which just means the GM would need a little background story input to include more magical characters if too many of the players what characters with magical ability).
The reason I want characters to choose there bioware, is so that they each have characters they want vs. any more mucking around on my part. The reason each one is different (assuming that each player does choose to be diferent), is that not all meddling in DNA provides the desired result, and while it would be natural for their creators to teach them to work in balanced teams, not necessarily teams of people with identicle modifications.
For the campaign I'm hoping to run, if it gets enough players, all the characters will have been bio-engineered. The only mechanics-based reason I'd like to get a rules set for bioware characters start with not costing essense is so that mages aren't counted out or severely gimped. From a theme standpoint, being born with the bioware shouldn't have as strong (or any IMO) an impact on your astral form. It should make magical ability far less likely, but not necessarily imposible or severely hampered (which just means the GM would need a little background story input to include more magical characters if too many of the players what characters with magical ability).
The reason I want characters to choose there bioware, is so that they each have characters they want vs. any more mucking around on my part. The reason each one is different (assuming that each player does choose to be diferent), is that not all meddling in DNA provides the desired result, and while it would be natural for their creators to teach them to work in balanced teams, not necessarily teams of people with identicle modifications.
Why not just make it a metatype? Then it wouldn't affect mages, and it would give them a higher racial max?
Being born with Bio and Gene ware? how would one explain that to their GM? would only rich families be able to do this to their children?
Read again. He is the GM and he needs it to be balanced for his campain, in which all characters shall have it.
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