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Chernabog
normaly i'd do an introduction post first, but seeing on how I have absolutely no idea what i'm doing or where everything is I thought it might be best to ask my question and just get it over with. Kind of like ripping a band-aid off a really hairy arm...I'm sure you'll appreciate that analogy...eh heh.

Okay so, I'm not what you'd call knowledged in shadowrun in any way shape or form, I've read one book in the Shadowrun series 'Never trust an elf' which I learned just this morning got bad reviews and is apparently hated by SR fans so perhaps I shouldn't admit that I enjoyed it. Mostly for kham, I have this 'thing' for orc/ork species. Which brings me to my question/ request, and I hope I'm posdting this in the proper place.

I just wnated to play an 'ork' something like 'Kham' in the book I read, but rather then just swipe the character like some brainless...oh I forgot what you call those people who really stink at chat rp, well anyway I don't want to be one of those sorts. It's just for an rpg chat site, nothing fancy, and I've been looking for information on Shadowrun orks but have come up with very little. I wanted my ork to have a cybernetic feature much like Kham did but I have no idea where to begin looking for info on that. normally I would use a book for help but I've misplaced the one I read, and all i can find is titled 'find your own truth' which I picked up at a book sale and It doesn't sound all that interesting. (It doesn't have any orks in it...)


So...anyway, I was hoping maybe someone could direct me to some good reference sites for both orks and cybernetic implants. As well as something for creating good SR style names, would all be extremely helpful. Again I hope I'm posting this in the proper place and apologize if I have not.
Fix-it
Welcome to Dumpshock.

as for names, there are usually two variants, Street names (a nickname, either wanted or not) and born names, the latter is nothing special, and not usually what we use in RPing. The best way to come up with a street name is to make up some annoying habit/embarrassing event, then make fun of it. EG, Killer, the guy who managed to kill someone accidentally with a stun baton.
nezumi
It sounds like you don't have the book and don't need to get it for what you're doing, neh?

Basically, an ork is, well, what you expect an ork to be, physically. Around human size, rippling muscles, odd colored skin, tusks (sometimes), etc. Google some shadowrun characters that are orks and see what sort of pictures you get, or look through the art posted on the website (http://www.fanpro.com/cms/fp/index.php)

When 'the big change' came, some people just magically turned into orks. Usually it happens at birth or at puberty, although it can happen at other times. Shadowrun genetics are a little weird, so an ork couple can give birth to an elf or a human or a troll, but 19 times out of 20, it's an ork. The reverse is also true, humans can have ork children. There's no such thing as a 'half-ork'. You're either ork or you're not. Twins and triplets are more common among orks. Generally, they reach physical maturity much earlier, but also die much earlier (around 40). They've shown themselves to be, on average, less attractive and intelligent than most other races, but stronger and more robust. They can also see heat.

As a result, they're the victim of a lot of racism. Fewer jobs are open to them. They live in the nastier neighborhoods. Ork gangs are very common, and the ork community is very strong (think of the black community back in the 50's or 60's for a general idea. Rebellious, a shared sense of racial identity, but ultimately wronged by society. And of course, there are plenty of orks who don't fit this stereotype.)

I hope I didn't come off as racist in that little blurb... I'm trying to summarize, so I don't want to let myself become the apologist.

As for cyberware... Cyberware is just cybernetic implants that do different things. There's one that lets you see information about your gun in your eye (kinda like you're in a computer game, but IRL. You always see how many shots are left and the little targeting reticule.) Cyberlimbs are reasonably common and feature a lot of neat add-ons. People plug directly into the matrix or into vehicles.

Is there anything in particular you're interested in in regards to cyberware?
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (nezumi)
They can also see heat.

[nitpick]
Trolls see heat. Orks have low-light.
[/nitpick]
FrankTrollman
On the cyberware question, cyberware can do a lot. It can make you stronger, faster, tougher, and most importantly of all, it can allow you to interact with other machines directly with your mind. Here are some examples of dealing with the wireless world from Shadowrun:

QUOTE
INTERACTING WITH
THE AUGMENTED WORLD
Example #1
Sketchy Alex heads to the mall with her
TekSense SP9 music player tucked behind her
ear and her Fabrique ALLIN1 commlink in her
jacket pocket. The two devices share a pair of
headphones and are aware of one another;
if the ALLIN1 needs attention, the TekSense
SP9 will temporarily mute itself. Her commlink
is her PAN’s core component and gives
her access to basic wireless services. Alex also
has a cheap pair of Tandy smartglasses, but
no datajack, so she controls the interface with
the scroll wheel on her commlink.
As she enters the mall, Alex accesses its
LAN, superimposing a map of the mall in
her vision. She quickly browses the directory
and adds the stores she wants to visit to her
hotlist, auto-highlighting them in blue on the
map. As she enters each store, her commlink
displays a list of today’s specials (tailored to
her personal purchasing profi le) and a detailed
map. In Trendz Music, she instantly connects
to the store’s music library, sampling several
songs before buying them and downloading
them directly to her SP9. As she’s purchasing
the music, the system lets her know that
Ingrid Needstrom—one of the musicians she
bought songs from—is playing a gig downtown
next week. She calls her friend Rachel
via her commlink to let her know about the
concert. Rachel is interested in going, so Alex
buys two tickets online (still inside the store)
and zaps one of them over to Rachel.
As she’s leaving the mall, Alex receives
several anonymous text messages from some
sleazy guy who read her commlink’s social
profi le and is trying to hit on her. She sets her
commlink to block all future messages from
that user.
Example #2
Vladamir is waiting for Mr. Johnson to arrive
at Club Inferno and lamenting the lack of
fun he’s likely to have in the meeting. Vlad
doesn’t want to have to deal with the runner
wannabes that frequent the club, so he
switches his PAN to hidden mode. To all the
other scum in the Inferno, his network is no
longer “visible” and automatically refuses
connections except from trusted friends on
Vlad’s buddy list—just the way he wants it.
While he waits, he receives a message from
Doc Sloth, one of his teammates. Doc has positioned
himself on the other side of the bar
in a booth so he can astrally scan Mr. Johnson
as he enters, and his message says that the
Johnson has an unusual magical aura. Vlad
immediately triggers his wired refl exes on,
just in case there’s trouble—maybe the night
will be fun after all.
Example #3
Bitsy is walking down the street on the
way to meet her ’warez dealer in one of the
nicer areas of town. She’s in hidden mode
since she doesn’t want to have to deal with
the obnoxious new viral marketing campaign
Horizon has been spamming along the public
thoroughfares. She’s lost in thought as she
walks, so she fails to notice the Lone Star
drone overhead that scans her. The drone
drops a spotlight on her and announces via
loudspeaker that she’s “hiding” in public—a
violation in this high-security sector. Bitsy instantly
sets to work fi nding the drone’s signal
so she can hack in and deal with the pigs. As
she homes in on it and brute-force hacks past
its firewall, the drone attempts to get a read
on her access ID and also runs a sensor scan
on her face to feed to a facial recognition program.
Bitsy’s access ID is forged—for exactly
this sort of situation—but after she nukes
the drone’s OS she decides to get out of the
area fast. Not only will the drone reboot itself
soon, but a squad car may show up quick
with her mugshot in hand, transmitted by the
drone back to Lone Star’s dispatch before she
could take it out.


Now, take all that, and multiply it by the fact that all this is being handled by a Direct Neural Interface (DNI), so the character is literally just thinking about doing these things and they happen.

-Frank
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (nezumi)
They can also see heat.

[nitpick]
Trolls see heat. Orks have low-light.
[/nitpick]

[nitpick]
Trolls see infrared radiated by warm objects.
[/nitpick]

~J
hyzmarca
Actually, there are Orks in Find Your Own Truth. The main character's sister is an Ork infected with a disease called Human/Metahuman Vampiric Virus and he is attempting to find a cure for her. I can't fathom why he'd want to, Wendigos (vampiric Orks) have it made as vampires go. They have the great magicial power, charisma, virtual immortality, and extreme physical abilities. The only tiny draw back is that they have to hack off a chunk of someone's flesh and eat it while he or she is still alive once a month. It is the third part of a trillogy, however, so you may be lost without reading the first two.

Ancient History has a codex of the newly revived Ork language Or'zet on his website, it might be useful. http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/


For SR style names, a normal name will suffice as well as some sort of nickname to use on the streets simply for the purpose of confidentiality.

For cyberware, there is a wide variety, muscle replacement to enchance strength and speed, dermal armor, armored skin replacement that can turn invisible, datajacks for direct neural interface with anything electronic, limb replacements (which are overpriced crap according to the rules as writen), eye replacements (which are so common you canhave your eyes scooped out and replaced in most malls), retactable bldes that pop out of your forearms, implanted firearms, and ect.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Actually, there are Orks in Find Your Own Truth. The main character's sister is an Ork infected with a disease called Human/Metahuman Vampiric Virus and he is attempting to find a cure for her.  I can't fathom why he'd want to, Wendigos (vampiric Orks) have it made as vampires go. They have the great magicial power, charisma, virtual immortality, and extreme physical abilities. The only tiny draw back is that they have to hack off a chunk of someone's flesh and eat it while he or she is still alive once a month.  It is the third part of a trillogy, however, so you may be lost without reading the first two.


nitpick time. He finds his sister in the second book of the trilogy while in England and that's when we get introduced with all the fun stuff about wendigos. In fact, the main character had the fun hide and seek fight against a wendigo on an office floor with only drones and his own magical power as backup. The wendigo made short work of the drones...

In the third book, that was more about against Spider, the ghost dance, howling coyote(?), oh and... spoiler time

[ Spoiler ]
Chernabog
First let me start off by saying i've been officialy wowed AND blown away...

QUOTE
The best way to come up with a street name is to make up some annoying habit/embarrassing event, then make fun of it. EG, Killer, the guy who managed to kill someone accidentally with a stun baton.



*lol*...so i could name my ork Ronald, and he could have accidentally killed someone with a french fry, and he could have the nickname 'Stabbin' chip'! wow that gives me busloads of ideas... rotfl.gif

oh and thank you for the welcomes, fix-it!

QUOTE
Is there anything in particular you're interested in in regards to cyberware?


well first let me thank you, Nezumi, for that gargantuan amount of information, as it really helps me a lot. I knew a little bit about their life span from the book i read, but beyond that it wasn't much help. To be honest I found Khams frustration with the Orks short life-span a bit on the depressing side...

As for specific interests in cyberware...well, are there any cyberware eyes or legs in the mix? And if so, what is it they can do exactly? Anything special?

Hmm...well I think FrankTrollman answered that question for me, thanks for that long blurp...I'm loving all this information. My brain is so happy...


QUOTE
Actually, there are Orks in Find Your Own Truth. The main character's sister is an Ork infected with a disease called Human/Metahuman Vampiric Virus and he is attempting to find a cure for her.


Oh really? I skimmed through it a little and read the blurp about it on the back cover and thought it sounded rather boring. I've been having some bad luck with random fantasy books I've been picking up lately (they've been sucking quite a lot...as well as blowing. I'm currently reading a book where the author can't seem to decide if his character is talking to himself or other people mentally. How these people get this crap published is BEYOND me.) I was going to get rid of the book, but now I think I'll read it after all. I appreciate the info on that.

On a side note I love all the nitpicking, tells me you guys REALLY know your stuff. I must say I'm a little jealous, it all sounds so interesting.

Well thanks again for all this fantastic information, I'll be sure to put it to good use. I might just hang around here as well, since I've always been rather interested in the Shadowrun world, I was just never really fully exposed to it until I read that one book.

...speaking of books, I'm always in the market for some good ones, you guys know of any good Shadowrun books I might enjoy? I could always look them up even if they're out of print.

thanks again!
Kagetenshi
I'll note that FrankTrollman's information only applies for Shadowrun 4, which is not in any meaningful way set in the same world as previous editions of Shadowrun (which the novels you're referring to were).

As for book recommendations, I've got a number that I need to read myself, but Technobabel is worth a read. Don't expect fine literature, but it's fun.

~J
Aku
Yes, there are cybereyes, and limbs. cyber eyes can have a variety of things put in them, from lowlight and thermo imagin systems, microscopic vision, magnification systems, i can't think of everything off of the top of my head.

Libs are generally considered "gimp", generally because of rules limitiations.

On the books thing, if you haven't already, I recommend the Runelord series, by David Farland. It's a sort of "historical fantasy" setting, meaning, that everyone for the most part, is human, and then theres the monsters. So no orcs, really, that i remember. But still an EXCELLENT read, IMO
hyzmarca
One important question about your chat site - is it free form or is it using Shadowrun rules? If the latter is the case, which version of the rules will you be using?
nick012000
I'm amazed that noone's mentioned buying the rulebook yet. Here's a link to the page for the core rulebook for the most recent version of SR.

Most of the information you want will be in there. If I remember correctly, there will be another book called Augmentation detailing additional cyberware for SR4.

Muzzaro
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
On the cyberware question, cyberware can do a lot. It can make you stronger, faster, tougher, and most importantly of all, it can allow you to interact with other machines directly with your mind. Here are some examples of dealing with the wireless world from Shadowrun:

Now, take all that, and multiply it by the fact that all this is being handled by a Direct Neural Interface (DNI), so the character is literally just thinking about doing these things and they happen.

-Frank

I have to admit, those are some great scenarios. So this is the "wireless world" that SR4 offers? I've not managed to see SR4 yet (it's not out in the UK it seems), and only have SR3 (and 1,2) to keep me company.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (nick012000)
I'm amazed that noone's mentioned buying the rulebook yet. Here's a link to the page for the core rulebook for the most recent version of SR.

Most of the information you want will be in there. If I remember correctly, there will be another book called Augmentation detailing additional cyberware for SR4.

Shame on you for pointing impressionable minds to that evil, evil thing.

Variable TNs Forever!!!! beret.gif
Liper
Picture how the matrix reacts to your online persona in sr3.

Now picture that reaction, where your persona is in real time where you are, and overlaid to correspond to the location and overlaid on your own vision through the cyber eyes or a pair of smartglasses/contacts.
tisoz
QUOTE (Chernabog)
So...anyway, I was hoping maybe someone could direct me to some good reference sites for both orks and cybernetic implants. As well as something for creating good SR style names, would all be extremely helpful. Again I hope I'm posting this in the proper place and apologize if I have not.

Try the search function on this forum. Use search words my character and ork and you should get plenty of results for ork characters. Similarly try searching by the name of a piece of gear and you will no doubt learn more than you want.

Names: there are several name threads, in fact, one is running as we speak.
Critias
QUOTE (nick012000)
I'm amazed that noone's mentioned buying the rulebook yet. Here's a link to the page for the core rulebook for the most recent version of SR.

Maybe that's because this guy hasn't done anything mean to us, so we don't want to do anything mean to him.
Mr.Platinum
yeah i can be pretty mean just to put a smile on my face.
nezumi
Cybereyes and legs can both hold a lot of stuff. Eyes can hold eye lasers (shoot laser beams from your eyes!) recorders, low-light or IR vision, flare compensators, etc. Also popular is ultrasound vision, which isn't actually installed in the eyes, but is linked to the visual systems. There are different descriptions on how it looks to the user, but basically it shows forms of things, defeating invisibility, full darkness, etc. (but it can't see through walls or behind solid objects. Cyber eyes can appear fully natural (oftentimes with a minor change so you can tell they're cyber and high quality, for instance a tiny gold ring around the iris with the maker's name on it), or clearly cybernetic (like silver orbs).

Cyberlegs, according to the rules, aren't really great because they cost way too much money and essence for what they give (essence is a measure of one's spirit. The more cyberware, the less 'human' you are. In game, this really only acts as a cap against how much cyber you can get and makes it more difficult for magic to affect you. If you're not using the rules, you can twist this however you like. Lower essence means you're a little more crazy, twitchy, robotic, cold, or no change at all.) Many people have changed the stats in their own games to more accurately reflect how they see cyberlimbs as working.

Cyberlegs don't have a huge amount of tweaks that can be added (of course, you can make up your own). They can be modified to be stronger, to let you jump higher, to run faster, to install skates in them or guns or cyberholsters like what Robocop has.

The biggest thing cyberlegs are generally used for is storage. You can store stuff in your cyberlimbs. So people put in computer or vehicle controlling decks, communications gear, toaster ovens, whatever they think is useful for their character.

[ Spoiler ]


hyzmarca
[ Spoiler ]
PBTHHHHT
[ Spoiler ]
Ed Simons
QUOTE (nezumi)
Basically, an ork is, well, what you expect an ork to be, physically.  Around human size, rippling muscles, odd colored skin, tusks (sometimes), etc. 


[nitpick]
Orks are on average 8 inches taller than humans, not around human size.
Standard orks have normal human skin tones, though the Oni and Hobgoblin metavarients have odd colored skin tones.
[/nitpick]

QUOTE (nezumi)
Generally, they reach physical maturity much earlier, but also die much earlier (around 40).


[nitpick]
Average life expectancy is said to be 35-40. That's quite a bit different from orks all dropping dead at 40.
[/nitpick]

nezumi
Hey, I'll give you the first one, but the second one? I said they generally die around 40, that sounds like an average life-span to me!! If you'r egoing to nitpick that, at least mention that orks who changed pre-SURGE have human lifespans.

Geez...

(That said, I do consider half a foot around human size still.)
Trax
and on average a human will live to 55.
Ed Simons
QUOTE (nezumi)
I said they generally die around 40, that sounds like an average life-span to me!!


As Trax points out, based on that reasoning humans die of old age at 55.

QUOTE (nezumi)
If you'r egoing to nitpick that, at least mention that orks who changed pre-SURGE have human lifespans.


[nitpick]
The actual sourcebooks never mention whether people who goblinize into orks live longer than people who are born orks. If what I've heard is correct, the novels are totally inconsistent on this.
[/nitpick]

QUOTE (nezumi)
(That said, I do consider half a foot around human size still.)


[nitpick]
8 inches is more than half a foot.
[/nitpick]
hyzmarca
The problem with defining averag elifespan is that the word "average" has three different meanings. Depending on the survey methodology and the definition of "average" used one could set the "average" human lifespan to be any number between zero and and infinity.
Kagetenshi
Not true. The term "average" used unqualified and mathematically always refers to the arithmatic mean.

~J
mintcar
The real problem with the "average" ork lifespan of 40 is that the number referenced for humans in the same table, 55, has (worldwide) printed next to it but the numbers for other races doesn´t. I think it´s obvious that this applies to all the numbers, and that the lifespan of 40 has much to do with the rough life of troggs, and does not have soley genetic reasons. However, some writers obviously took it a bit more litteraly, because in some fiction orks really do grow old very quickly. And that incosistency makes for a lot of debate.
TheNarrator
I thought Methuselah Syndrome had nicely explained that. Many Orks (including the CEO of Yamatetsu) have this Syndrome, causing them to age rapidly.
nezumi
Hmm... Am I the only one who thinks people are starting to nitpick just to see who can acquire the most? nyahnyah.gif

Average lifespan of an ork is around 40. I seem to recollect there being canon examples of orks aging faster, for instance in orksploitation. I DO know it appears in some of the books. I seem to recollect Kham was related to an ork like that, who's like 70 years old in the Ork underground, and his wife who was born ork was about 50 and looked 90.

Edit: Changed 'Khal' to 'Kham' because I *KNOW* someone will make a [nitpick] post just to correct me otherwise.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (TheNarrator)
I thought Methuselah Syndrome had nicely explained that. Many Orks (including the CEO of Yamatetsu) have this Syndrome, causing them to age rapidly.

Yep. Some Orks age rapidly, others do not. Sometimes a rapidly aging Ork and a normally aging Ork will be in the same family (just as a goblinizing human and a non-goblinizing human can be in the same family).

There were a lot of theories thrown around as to why, but Yamatetsu (now renamed Evo Corporation) claims to actually have treatment available for the rapid aging and called it "Methuselah's Syndrome."

So now it comes down mostly to a character choice - do you want your character to die young? Do you want your character to be having to scrimp and save to afford expensive treatments to keep from dying young?

-Frank
Moon-Hawk
Where is the info on Methusela's Syndrome and Yamatetsu?
FrankTrollman
There isn't much of it. In Shadows of Asia it says that Yamatetsu's CEO has methuselah's syndrome and is undergoing treatment. By SR4, Evo Corporation (formerly Yamatetsu) is leading the way in "anti-aging experiments."

-Frank
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Not true. The term "average" used unqualified and mathematically always refers to the arithmatic mean.

~J

It can also refer to median and mode.
Moon-Hawk
What Kagetenshi is saying is that when the word "average" is used, unless otherwise specified, can reasonably be assumed to mean the arithmetic mean. Yes, average can apply to median, mode, geometric mean, and a very long list of other types of "averages", but the arithmetic mean is the "standard" use of the word average, (at least when used mathematically) unless otherwise specified.
I am inclined to agree.
John Campbell
The real problem with the "average" lifespan number is that knowing the arithmetic mean actually doesn't tell us much that's useful, and can be extremely misleading when used incautiously.

For example, an average lifespan of 40 could equally well represent a group where all members keel over dead from old age and extreme decrepitude on their 40th birthday, and a group where half the members die moments after birth and the other half are murdered by jealous spouses at 80. Without knowing something about the distribution, simply knowing the mean tells you practically nothing about the life expectancy of any random group-member-on-the-street, and even less about how they age.

Personally, I suspect that orks' mean lifespan has very little to do with how rapidly they age. They might age faster than humans, but not a whole lot... I figure if they make 30, they've probably got pretty good odds of still being in fairly good shape at 60. The average is just dragged down by the relatively large number that don't make it to 30, because of the various problems associated with being disadvantaged and discriminated against, with the tendency towards multiple births adding insult to injury. (The ork infant mortality rate must be horrific...)

This whole Methuselah Syndrome thing sounds to me like a way to retcon silliness written by people who failed to understand the above.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jan 9 2006, 04:11 PM)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jan 8 2006, 02:04 AM)
Not true. The term "average" used unqualified and mathematically always refers to the arithmatic mean.

It can also refer to median and mode.

No, it can't. They are both also averages, but to use the unqualified word "average" to refer to them is incorrect in the English language.

~J
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