I was reading the Sprawl Survival Guide and the text mentioned some interesting statistics concerning the mistreatment of metahumans. From pg. 44

"Though concrete figures are hard to come by, statisticians estimate that nearly twice as many metahumans as humans are SINless and merely "probationary citizens" of the UCAS. We have made progress, but our nation still requires an act of Congress to bestow citizenship on sentient beings who aren't Homo sapiens."

O.K. I understand that metahumans suffer the extreme forms of racism such as being killed by groups like Humanis and Alamos 20K, and the racism that prevents them from rising to management positions in megacorps but what else?

From other canon sources I've understood that metahumans aren't considered full citizens the same as humans are. So what does this mean exactly? Are most metahumans not full citizens because of a SINless status, (i.e. not being born in hospitals, which seems unlikely), or are they barred from citizenship by law?

When my players ask me about this I always liken it to the plight of the African American in the United States in the 40's and 50's. But that implies a lot. Is there segregation? I know metahumans live in their own communities but is it forced? Are they prevented by law from using the same facilities as humans? If they are not full citizens what are their rights?

Basically are metahumans second class citizens or not citizens at all?

Metahumans are subspecies of Homo Sapiens, and therefore are eligible for SINs. It's just that there is a tendence towards them being SINless, and yes, most SINless aren't born in real hospitals. Street clinics, maybe, but not hospitals.

So then the whole "sentient beings" are sasquatches, dragons, and other intelligent creatures, excluding insect spirits. O.k. I guess that's where I was confused.

Repetitively Redundant. My appologies, and sorry.

Dunkelzhan would be a good example, as he was given citizenship by Congress. Where as in the Tir, Sasquatches are accorded the same rights as a human would be. In the Ukraine, freakin' everything, up to and including ghouls and vampires are accorded the same rights as everyone else, assuming they have a SIN.

But orks, trolls, elves, all of them can have SIN jsut like a human, assuming that they're acutally born in a hospital or apply for a SIN

Getting a SIN isn't as easy as just applying for one. The standards are high enough that most SINless can't get one without an act of Dunkelzhan and even his free SIN going out of living promotion was limited to the first 1000 customers. Most people want SINs, only gangers and Shadowrunners are the exception, the former because they are idiots and the latter because they make more money running than they could to a real job.

Racism in shadowrun, it's liek an all out Battle Royal, every one vs every one in my eyes.

I think on paper metas have the same rights as any human being but the disparity comes from the fact that very often the poor are SINless and because of the long-standing racial biases against metas most metas tend to be poor.

In other words, if a disproportionate section of the metahuman population is poor and SINless than equal rights is moot point. They are still non-entities.

And what really matters (after all) is weather or not you have money...

Lazarus: I guess I'm a little confused as to what exactly you are looking for. Can you be more specific about what your question is?

I think he's wondering (as I am) WHY it is difficult to obtain a SIN. Why don't they want you to be a registered, taxpaying citizen?

This conversation is getting itself confused between Racism and SINlessism. There is a correlating factor here since SINlessism seems to be more common amoungst Metatypes than regular Homosapiens, but they are still different things.

Both are social biases but one stems from ingnorance and scapegoatism while the other simply disenfranchises people from society and is more classism than out and out racism since it is usually the poor, not only metahumans that fall victim to SINlessness.

The reason for metahumans to go into life in the Shadows has to do with both. Its a way to make a buck in a hard world that would rather not have you in it. SINless characters have difficulty functioning in society and finding employment. Try finding a job without two forms of valid ID even nowaddays. Being a Troll on the other hand, you have to deal with all kinds of difficulties. Stereotypes of Trolls being stupid and prone to violence on top of the mere physical limitations of having a Troll work an office job in a cube farm. Small doors, chairs and even flooring that isnt designed to support that much weight become factors. Not only do you have to overcome social stigma for nothing better than the way you look but you have to overcome physical barriers similar to those faced by the "Differently Capable" or whatever the PC term of the month is for... um... you know.... the cripples.

Racism in SR can be far more than a way to punish players for getting a few extra attribute points and some neat abilities by kicking them out of a stuffer shack. It can be used to add a real humanistic drama to the game and plenty of juicy hooks and side plots.

Moya (o)(o)

What is the difference between a SIN and a SSN?

Why do certain governments not let certain citizens have a SIN? Does a SIN carry more rights then other forms of citizenship? What are these rights?

<For instance if I'm a SINless Ork does that mean I don't have Miranda?>

Are they counted in other ways?

Do they get a different type of SIN such as a Criminal SIN, or a Prob. Citizen SIN?

See I guess here is my problem. Not being a citizen is different then being a citizen and not having equal treatment under the law. I'm just wondering how most SR countries view metas because at times it seems like both depending on the writer.

I mean to me being SINLess is a condition that would be hard to maintain but beneficial to runners. If I wanted a SIN of my own why can't I just go register? Hell with so many ways to fake a National SIN and a Corp SIN getting a real SIN shouldn't be a problem. Not having one and keeping it that way would be tough.

This may be a weak analogy but imagine today living in America without a SSN.

And the racism thing may be on point if that is the reason it is so hard to get a SIN. I mean a country is literally hurting itself because of racism (i.e. less taxable citizens).

How does one get a SSN in modern America? I mean, I was born in a hospital, so I got one then. But if I just crawled out of the bayou, having been born on my momma's back porch, without a birth certificate or anything...can I just stroll into city hall and say, "Gimme one o' them, thar, social security thingies."???
I think not. But what IS the process?

Actually its a bigger pain in the ass now after 9/11. Used to be you could send off for a number and card any time after your 16th b-day iirc (since this is when it becomes legal for kids to start working real tax-paying jobs). Now you have to jump through some hoops.

I recently lost my SS card and since there is not a SS admin office in my town I can't go in person to get a replacement card. They told me I'd have to mail off my actual drivers license (not a photo copy mind you) as proof of identity and wait for them to mail it back to me.

Anyway, I think the real issue is that governments probably aren't interested in SINless because the nominal tax revinue they would generate wouldn't cover the added costs of providing things like police security, education healthcare and social/wellfare services to the masses. Its purely financial. In effect it gives governments a socially acceptible system for writing off the needy segments of society that they don't want to take care of. In fact you would save on judicial and correctional costs as well because when a SINless person is caught for a crime you can dispense with any sort of fair trial or due process and just make them disappear.

And corporate citizens probably don't worry about things like taxes. Why would a corp tax its employees? Of coarse the corp itself probably pays local taxes to whatever governing body holds power where they operate. Probably a huge chunk of most govenment's revinue comes from corp taxes (which is why most governments would be in bed with the corps). It all adds to the whole dystopian military/industrail complex theme in SR.

Also I think the ideas of racism and SINlessness are intimately related. I don't think its a mistake that so many metas are SINless. Its systematic. And like I said it gives the govenments a way of not having to deal with the "metahuman problem".

Actually, being Extrateritorial means that the corps themselves don't have to pay most taxes. It is quite an advantage, realy. However, not all corps are AA and AAA, there are still plenty of smaller ones and even some mon-and-pop businesses. Also, some businesses may be owned by a megacorp but not officially extrateritoral.

A SIN isn't like a SSN for several reasons. A SSN is purely for the disspersal of social security benefits. It is illegal to use a SSN for anything else. (That doesn't stop everyone from forcing you to use it as an ID, but that is technically a crime. )
A SIN, on the other hand, was always meant to be an all-pervasive ID.
The Social Security office hands out SSNs because that is one it does. Theoretically, there is no benefit to having one except being under the protective of the social security system when you retire or are disabled.
With a UCAS SIN, however, comes every right except for the big ones Even without a SIN they won't just dissaear you and constitutional protections still apply to you. Other countries aand corporations however, will dissepar SINless criminals.
Getting a SIN in any area is basicly the same as its Immigration and Naturalization process. The SINless have the same status as illegal Immigrants in the Sixth World. Of course, we could just give citizenship to all illegal immigrants now but political realities prevent this. Those same realities exist in the Sixth World.


The SINless, since they have to survive somehow, provide a workforce for those who are unwilliing to pay minumum wage and are happy to cook the books. They also provide employment to criminal enterprises such as drug and BTL dealing and prostitution. Enough of these criminals have connections in office to keep the SINless in their place, certainly. Even if they don't, the paranoid rich guys and human supremicists do.

Also, being SINless doens't mean that you don't have to pay taxes. You still have to pay taxes just as ciriminal enterprises do.

There are several issues with handing out SIN's willy nilly. A SIN is by all practical purposes the means by which almost any "institution" you are going to have interaction with indexes your records and background information. Things like Criminal, Medical, Credit and Education histories are tracked with that number.

More than just a simple way for the "man" to keep track of you a SIN is more of a licence to live and work within the parameters of whatever body politic you happen to be a part of. If you don't have a SIN you don't have a background to track and with no history you might as well practically not exist.

The question is, "Why would someone not have a SIN." The two most likely reasons are, 1) You were born into a situation where you were not assigned a SIN. 2) You for some reason did something that made you want to hide from the system. You had your SIN destroyed or are some foreign national that entered illegaly or any other reason but you intentionally do not WANT to be identified and therefore have no (I)dentification (N)umber in the (S)ystem.

If you have any smarts about you, you know how incredibly paranoid the authorities can be and I would tend to think that they would assume the latter pretty much 100% of the time. Therefore, if Joe Chummer came off the street into whatever agency regulates SIN's and said, "Yo! I wants to be a citizen." most likely in some kind of gutterspeak. They would most likely be very leery of giving a person with no background a licence to live in their neighborhood, date their daughters and enjoy access to the same public services regular citizens pay for and enjoy. After all he could be and probably is psychotic.

This splits the SINless into two catgories. Those who are SINless through no fault of their own and those who wish to be SINless. The sad thing is that there is no way for anyone to tell the two apart since there is no record of past behavior to go on. At least nothing certifiable. I for one can easliy see why those who have fallen through the cracks would have a difficult time re-introducing themselves into genteel society.

Here's how I see the racism as part of SR.

I don't think there’d be as many SINless as the canon makes it. To me the government wants people to have SINs just to keep track of you. The world of SR seems to be more invasive than the one today. Think how difficult it would be to function in the world today without any form of I.D., especially the post 9/11 world. And with improvements in technology it's only going to get worse. The people who wouldn’t have SINs are those people who have no interest in being part of the system, i.e. Shadowrunners, but even they would have a fake SIN which means you still function as part of the system.

Racism is more subtle rather then overt. The human would let the ork into his society but stack the deck against him. So what if the ork has a degree. He can be head janitor instead of a regular one. "Yes I think orks should have good housing, but they can't live my neighborhood," says the supposed enlightened human. It’s like playing Five Card draw except you only get two cards.

Now that doesn't mean you’re not going to have killings, the Night of Right, and the extreme overt forms of Racism. The problem with those is they tend to draw sympathy. Your average person is against torture, murder, death camps, genocide, even for people they don't like. The media tends to bring this out. You have too many Night of Rages and Ork Activists get more media focus, more public sympathy. People start to come around to their message, and so.

The dystopia of the world SR is that human potential is stunted in favor of profit. I'm a corp. I don't want you poor and SINless. I want you to have a SIN, so I can get a credit report off about you. I want you in debt. That way you have a vested interest in the system and keeping it running. If you’re too busing buying the newest Simsense hit and telecom then you’re not worried about corp abuse, civil rights, and all that drek. As a corp poor, homeless, SINless people don't do me any good. Now poor, wage-slave, SINed people do.

Where the racism becomes a factor is how high in society you can rise being metahuman. To paraphrase Chris Rock: "When you’re human the sky's the limit. When you’re ork the limit's the sky."

Anyway that's my take on it. Thanks for all the comments.

A minor interjection. Racism is based solely on the fact that meta humanity is basically tribal in instinct, so someone will eventually think different means inferior. Anglo vs Native, dakota vs Ute, orc vs human, Corper A vs Corper B.
Humans have a clear," their different and there's more of us."
against the meta's, due of course, to them being smaller, tusked, pointier and HUGE.
This is then backed up by stereotype. Crime being the only option to those in the ghetto's.

The reason most meta's are SINless was due to the UCAS removing citizenship from them just before the events of the Night of Rage.
It's in the main rule book. At the front. In the history.
As to gaining a SIN, damn hard. Specifics on request.
While Sinless you don't exist, you receive no security benefits, no legal standing/constitutional rights, even human rights. A massive fiscal break for the government/corp land lord.
You still have to buy things from the only suppliers, the corps. Even if it's through middle men.
The only advantage is your every move from birth to death is not mapped. You live in the Shadows, you are deniable. That is a useful resource and is therefore maintained.

Hope that helps.

Homo Sapiens includes Elves, Dwarves, Orks and Trolls.

The way I see it, in SR the government (the UCAS government, anyway since that's the default setting) doesn't want to keep track of you. If it knows about you, it has to look after you, provide housing, medicare, social security, all that stuff. Given that the megacorps are the major employer, and given that they evade taxes as naturally as a bat finds insects in the dark (and their employees don't pay taxes to the government anyway as the corp is extraterratorial and therefore the earnings are all effectively made in another country - the CORP might tax the employee, the UCAS doesn't), there probably isn't a whole hell of a lot of spare cash to go around after the government has spent its money on the things it traditionally likes to spend money on, vis a vis bombs, tanks and covering up political misdeeds as well as pesky annoyances like infrastructure.

Its a simplistic view, but I'd have thought its quite a big factor.

It says repeatedly that if you have no SIN, you don't exist as far as the authorities go, hence the Star just disappearing people every now and again if they feel like it, and politicians rarely even acknowledging anything beyond 'the criminal element' being affected by their lack of SIN. Handy scapegoating, just like the racism connection which is often drawn, but which is only partially linked in reality.

Its not a question of keeping track and paying taxes, as a: I dont' think they WANT to keep track of the SINless in most cases unless they're caught doing something criminal in which case in theory they're given a criminal SIN and marked for life as 'trouble', and b: the SINless tend to be uneducated and unskilled, so therefore unemployable for the most part and unlikely to be paying taxes. In a modern beauracracy, especially in the 2060s, if its not on paper, it doesn't exist and therefore no-one has to spend any money on it, or bother to factor for it when deciding whether or not to flatten that tenement to build a nice flashy corp building for which the local politicos receive hefty private 'incentives'.


Lazarus - I think you misunderstand the sheer level of corruption and selfishness that exists in the corridors of power in SR.

Or, of course, perhaps I overestimate it!

It does say that the extent to which racism pervades in your game is up to you, and I might suggest that the same could be said for the SIN issue depending on exactly how dystopic you want your world to be.

Edit: oh, and I'm with Dawnshadow. All the metahumans are homo sapiens SOMETHING. Humans are sapien sapien, elves are sapien nobilis, etc. Therefore all of them are Homo Sapiens as far as that act of congress goes. And that's only the UCAS in any case. Other nation states may (and frequently are) completely different. No doubt some corps have different rules too (can anyone see Mitsuhama even pretending to have equal rights for non-sapien-sapiens? They barely tolerate non japanese sapien-sapiens as it is, never mind gajin orks or whatever!)

Saying metas have no legal standing (no SIN) in the UCAS makes no sense to me. Didn't an Ork run for Prez against Dunkelzahn? Peynchyk or something?

My best guess is that metas are overrepresented in the shadows (beyond game mechanics) is that much identity data was trashed in the crash of '29.Between that, and the secession/war the occurred in the ensuing decades, alot of people could reasonable be lost in the shuffle. Think about how much hardcopy Photo ID you could produce if you had too (more than 1?). If you agree that UCAS citizens gets healthcare and other benefits, its likely you must provide extensive proof that you are entitled to such, "You papers, comrade?'. Canon also suggests that Goblinization took a tremendous toll on those it effected, mentally and physically. I propose that some significant percentage of those who goblinized suffered memory loss, psychosis, some perhaps were reduced to feral animals (like Ghouls) and would have been driven to the fringes of society. It makes sense then, that these marginalized people would be less able to prove they are entitled to the rights/privileges of citizenship, and this would have also affected the status of their offspring (also, mostly orcs, trolls). This would also apply to Elves and Dwarves to a lesser degree. Freaks they may be, but to a lesser degree than those monsters.

The removal of meta humans to the dock warehouses by the UCAS authorities created the Night of Rage where the majority of the meta's then fled and hid from the norms. These areas, Barrens and Underground etc, held these meta squatters and in a generation they became SINless.
Seattle is the test example of what happen through out the UCAS.
Once SINless it is hard to get the opportunities necessary to gain a SIN, which is purposefully not easy.

Social-political inertia. Hope this explains the previous statement.

Of course there are meta's in the system, there are Anglo's in NAN. All of whom have something to offer and serve to refute that the system is wrong.
There are ways into and around the system, thats what runner'ths do best'th.

Sorry Lazarus, this thread has veered off topic on to SIN's.
For racism, there is sadly many varied shades in this world, use them all. Learn to recognize them, understand them and pity those that believe them.
Best thang about roleplaying, doing something you would never do and learning something while having fun in the process.