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Mardegun
I don't remember what happens when a character raises their base skill up to the same level as their specialization? For example a character has a edge weapon skill of 3(5). So they raise it to 4(5), which costs 6 karma or 8 if it is above their attribute.

Now what happens when the characters raises the skill to 5(5)? Or does it become 5(6)? You don't get the specialization increase for free do you? However it seems silly that your base skill would be better than your specialization too.
Aku
Silly as it is, thats technically how it works, you need to raise the spec seperately
MK Ultra
Yea, I changed that rule in my game so long ago, I didnt even remember the official stuff wink.gif
Aku
MK, just out of curiousity, how did you change it? raising the spec raises the base? raising the base raises the spec? what?
MK Ultra
Ive jumped over to SR4 now, so Im not using this rules anymore. Anyway, I used to allow more then 1 Spec per Skill, the cost of which was dependant of the skill (I had 3 types of skills with different Karma-Multipliers, 1, 2 and 3 times new level). So the average Skill, i.e. Pistols was 2 * nl to raise, easy skills (like Automobile) times 1 and complex skills like Biotech times 3. All specializations cost nl times 0.5. Every skill had a set of specs (skill karma multiplier * 3 different specs). You raised these specs independantly from each other, but as soon as you had 2/3 of the specs (amounting to the normal skill cost) you got the other 1/3 for free. If You raised any spec further, you started from the general skill level. This way, you would not waste any karma, no metter in which order you raised skills.

So you see it was realy rather complicated, but the mechanics were eched into my brain early on, so I could spill the numbers for any increas on command. Still I like the SR4 system much more.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Mardegun)
I don't remember what happens when a character raises their base skill up to the same level as their specialization? For example a character has a edge weapon skill of 3(5). So they raise it to 4(5), which costs 6 karma or 8 if it is above their attribute.

Now what happens when the characters raises the skill to 5(5)? Or does it become 5(6)? You don't get the specialization increase for free do you? However it seems silly that your base skill would be better than your specialization too.

When you raise the base skill of 4 from 4(5), it doesn't become 5(5), it's just 5. At this point, the specialization has ceased to exist, having been completely absorbed into the base skill. After that, you could raise the base skill to 6. Maybe, after that, you decide that six is enough, but you want to get better within your specialization, so you raise that and then have 6(7). Then you change your mind, decide that you DO want a 7 in the base skill, raise that, and you get 7; not 7(7). Of course, you've completely wasted the karma used to raise the specialization to 7, since the increase of the base skill cost the same either way.
So you can't get your base skill higher than the specialization, and it is karmically inefficient to put points into a specialization before your base skill is maxed. (and by maxed, I mean as high as you ever want it to be, not as high as it ever can be)
TheNarrator
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Of course, you've completely wasted the karma used to raise the specialization to 7, since the increase of the base skill cost the same either way.

Huh. I'd always figured that the cost of increasing a skill you had a specialization in would be the difference in costs between specialization and skill. Like you'd already paid part of the cost of the skill (0.5 x level in karma) and gotten part of the benefit, but if you paid the rest of the cost (1 x level in karma) you'd get the rest of the benefit. Sort of like going back and training to broaden your versatility, which I would think would be easier than starting from scratch.
Moon-Hawk
I would agree with you. However that is explicitly not the case. The game designers probably decided that you should eat the loss because the alternative requires too complex of math.
Feel free to houserule, but remember, if you discount the cost of raising the base skill by the cost of the already-raised specialization, there is NO REASON no to raise a specialization while you wait to earn the karma to raise the base skill. I'm not saying this is neccessarily bad. Just how it is.
You could go for a compromise, and only offer a partial discount, but at this point I'm thinking the math just isn't worth it. Not that it's that hard, just not worth it.
DigitalSoul
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
I would agree with you. However that is explicitly not the case. The game designers probably decided that you should eat the loss because the alternative requires too complex of math.
Feel free to houserule, but remember, if you discount the cost of raising the base skill by the cost of the already-raised specialization, there is NO REASON no to raise a specialization while you wait to earn the karma to raise the base skill. I'm not saying this is neccessarily bad. Just how it is.
You could go for a compromise, and only offer a partial discount, but at this point I'm thinking the math just isn't worth it. Not that it's that hard, just not worth it.

If I remember what the SR3 book states correctly, you can only raise a specialization up to double what the base skill is.

Like I can only have Knives at 12 if my Edged Weapons is at least 6.
Moon-Hawk
That is correct. The exception to that rule is: skill(specialization) 1(3)
This combination is legal, even though it breaks the 1/2 rule.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (MK Ultra)
I used to allow more then 1 Spec per Skill

That is canon.

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
The game designers probably decided that you should eat the loss because the alternative requires too complex of math.

Or they might think like I do, which is that you should just eat the loss.

~J
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