Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Dirtly little cyber tricks...
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
nick012000
Trick #1: He just won't die!
Buy a commlink, Alphaware muscle replacement cyber, a biomonitor, cybereyes, cyberears, a simrig, a Pilot program, and some autosofts. Get a special personafix program made, designed to give the user your personality. If you can, get it linked to your simrig to make it a better simulation over time. Then, when you take enough damage to render you unconscious, you get the Pilot program (which you'll have installed in your muscle replacements) to take over your motion. The autosoft make it so it knows how to control your body, and it feeds the data from the cyber-eyes and -ears into the Pilot as its sensors, and stores the incoming feeds. Then it hoofs it to the closest hospital, after finishing off whatever threats rendered you unconscious. It uses the personafix chip to assume your personality, so it'll make decisions the same way you would. If you die on the way, you get a cloned body made, the cyberware transferred, and when your clean-slate clone brain wakes up, it gets imprinted with your memories and personality from the records you've kept, and you go right back to action.

Trick #2: Sleeping with your eyes open!
Buy a commlink, maybe a Clearsight autosoft, a set of Cyber-eyes and -ears. When you go to bed, you switch off the simsense feeds from the cyber-eyes and -ears, but leave them running to the commlink, which analyses them for trouble, as you go to sleep. If it detects trouble, it wakes you up with a torrent of simsense, before restoring your eye and ear feeds. If you have wired reflexes or reaction enhancers, it might turn on the juice to wake you up quickly.
Kerberos
Number 1 won't work, if you're dead, you're dead, no persona fix program is going to make a dead body move, probably not an unconscious one either. Muscle replacement doesn't change that since input from the brain is necessary and you probably need oxygen to power those muscles too.
Sphynx
I think it's cool Nick. smile.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
#1 is and nice idea, but would fail when finally needed. wink.gif

#2, on the other hand, is very effectiv - and you don't need a commlink at all, being able to install Pilot and Autosoft directly on eyes and ears.
Tashio
#1
I might very well be wrong but I don't recall ever see anything where they have managed to clone a brain and "write" contents to it otherwise people would make clone backups and brain backups on a regular basis just incase someone decided to pop them off. Persona and memories are rather different things. Even if this was posible, the cost involved would be so astonomical why the hell would you want to run when you could afford to have your own private island along with hula girls.

Interesting concept though.

#2
Sleeping with eyes open, not bad idea but you could jsut as easily stick up a camera linked to your pan right next to the bed which can swivel and monitor the room whereas when you decide to roll over and end up face down in the pillow no amount of open eyes is going to help you see.
nick012000
Tashio: Yeah, the persona of the person probably wouldn't come with memories. That's what the simrig's for. nyahnyah.gif

Also, by canon, DocWagon grows clones by the bucketload for their customers.

Kerberos: That's what the Pilot Program and Muscle Replacement are for: to make your dead body move.
Kerberos
QUOTE (nick012000)
Kerberos: That's what the Pilot Program and Muscle Replacement are for: to make your dead body move.

The problem is that I see no evidence for your assumption that muscle replacement can function if you're dead. Synthetic muscle presumably would require oxygen and if you're not breathing, your heart isn't beating or you've lost to much blood no oxygen will be available. Also pilots are for drones not humans, which is much more complicated.
DireRadiant
#1 has a critical point of failure. Human brain is dead. But if you added skillwires to the mix, I could see it might be possible to get muscle twitches for a while out of a corpse. But this argues for some additional juice in addition to the fire your motor signal.
nick012000
QUOTE (Kerberos)
QUOTE (nick012000 @ Jan 12 2006, 09:25 AM)
Kerberos: That's what the Pilot Program and Muscle Replacement are for: to make your dead body move.

The problem is that I see no evidence for your assumption that muscle replacement can function if you're dead. Synthetic muscle presumably would require oxygen and if you're not breathing, your heart isn't beating or you've lost to much blood no oxygen will be available. Also pilots are for drones not humans, which is much more complicated.

Muscle Replacement is myomeric fiber, isn't it? It doesn't need oxygen to run. Even if it did, just get an air tank and you're good, because you'd be entirely justified in saying that your heart is cyber too- (it's a muscle, so it got replaced).

And the definition of "drone" is rather loose. Arguably, anything that A. can move and B. is running a Pilot program is a drone.
hyzmarca
The clone would require skillwires and the proper softs since p-fixes don't come with active skills. It wouldn't be you any more than a Shedim or a Loa stuffed in your corpse is, but it gets the job done.
Kerberos
QUOTE (nick012000)
QUOTE (Kerberos @ Jan 12 2006, 09:37 AM)
QUOTE (nick012000 @ Jan 12 2006, 09:25 AM)
Kerberos: That's what the Pilot Program and Muscle Replacement are for: to make your dead body move.

The problem is that I see no evidence for your assumption that muscle replacement can function if you're dead. Synthetic muscle presumably would require oxygen and if you're not breathing, your heart isn't beating or you've lost to much blood no oxygen will be available. Also pilots are for drones not humans, which is much more complicated.

Muscle Replacement is myomeric fiber, isn't it? It doesn't need oxygen to run. Even if it did, just get an air tank and you're good, because you'd be entirely justified in saying that your heart is cyber too- (it's a muscle, so it got replaced).

And the definition of "drone" is rather loose. Arguably, anything that A. can move and B. is running a Pilot program is a drone.

I'm not sure what myomoric fibbers are, and the dictionary doesn't give me any hits. Is that just muscle fibbers because those definitely requires oxygen. In any case the book doesn't really specify beyond "synthetic muscle". The point however is that even if you're heart has been replaces too, it still won't work if there's a bullet through it, and even if you've got an air tank you still need blood to transport it, which is going to be difficult of there's several big holes in your chest. Also while the definition of drone might be loose I doubt it includes anything that is as difficult to control as a human body.
nick012000
There are anthroform drones.

As for myomeric fiber... Google it.

I'll also point you to p. 329 of SR4.
Rotbart van Dainig
So the problem is energy - which you need additional power supplies as your body no longer features bioelectricity...
Kerberos
QUOTE (nick012000)
There are anthroform drones.

As for myomeric fiber... Google it.

I'll also point you to p. 329 of SR4.

The fact that there are anthroform drones doesn't really prove anything, human movement requires a close coordination of a lot of muscles, and anthroform drone might be far less complicated. Even if we say that a pilot program could do that however, you've still got no oxygen to power your muscles, and even if they used another power source the nerve system that sends signals to your synthetic muscles will die very quickly without oxygen which means you can't send signals to your muscles. Also I checked p. 329 to see what myomeric fiber is and there's no indication that synthetic muscles are made of that. In sum you'll need an extremely friendly GM if you plan to do that.
Kerberos
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jan 12 2006, 10:25 AM)
So the problem is energy - which you need additional power supplies as your body no longer features bioelectricity...

Propably of topic but you do know that bioelectricity isn't the power souce that the human body runs on right? Electricity is used to send signals through the nerve system, but not as a power source. I won't bore you with the detail (plus I forgot most of it), but the power souce of the body is chemical.
Rotbart van Dainig
Indeed, that would be ATP.

Cyberware runs on bioelectricity officially, though...
Kerberos
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jan 12 2006, 10:32 AM)
Indeed, that would be ATP.

Cyberware runs on bioelectricity officially, though...

All the muscles in your body running on bioelectricity? But, but that's impossible! eek.gif There isn't enough energy in that! read.gif First law of thermodynamics! proof.gif Mumble, grumble. frown.gif
stevebugge
QUOTE (Tashio)
#1
I might very well be wrong but I don't recall ever see anything where they have managed to clone a brain and "write" contents to it otherwise people would make clone backups and brain backups on a regular basis just incase someone decided to pop them off. Persona and memories are rather different things. Even if this was posible, the cost involved would be so astonomical why the hell would you want to run when you could afford to have your own private island along with hula girls.

Interesting concept though.

The closest it ever came was in the novels when Thomas Roxborough treid to basically transplant his personality in to Ryan Mercury (may God thrice damn his soul) using Laes and some sort of mindwiping / writing tech.
Azralon
That tech, or a version thereof, appeared in.... Cannon Companion, methinks?

I can never remember clearly because it seems like such a counter-intuitive place to put it.
FrankTrollman
Please. It runs on "bioelectricity" it doesn't run on the bioelectricity that your body was already generating.

Your body produces tremendous amounts of waste chemical energy, your cyberware runs on electricity. Your man/machine interface produces electricity from the waste energy of your body. So the electricity is produced from a biological source, and is thus "bioelectricity."

It's a technically accurate use of the term, and involves no thermodynamic violation.

-Frank
Azralon
Meh, I chalk that misunderstanding up to the inefficiencies of the English language.

I mean, "hydroelectric power" could seem to imply the use of supercharged water molecules at first glance.

QUOTE (The 1985 movie "Real Genius")
Mitch: <explaining a laser> It's coherent light.
Mitch's Father: So it talks?
Kerberos
bi·o·e·lec·tric·i·ty Audio pronunciation of "bioelectricity" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b--lk-trs-t, -lk-)
n.

An electric current that is generated by living tissue, such as nerve and muscle.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=b...=bioelectricity

Besides I was only joking.
Akai Sokata
QUOTE
Also, by canon, DocWagon grows clones by the bucketload for their customers.


I've never seen anything like that in any book. They make cloned organs and parts, but not whole bodys of clients.

another note is note how much work goes into makeing a p-fix. it would take alot of resources to make a p-fix of a PC...to much for this to be practial

I see #1 being a good use for gm's. Your team just killed off, or knocked out a corp sec team...but wait there back up agine and moving like a zombie bot...

thats what I feel that little thing does, think about it this way. Your pluged with bullets, so the mucel replacements are damnaged, causing movements to be jerky and slower, and your running with auto softs as skills. Your brains toast and your dead, but reanimated by autosofts, skill wires, and mucels replacements. Bottom line I see this as a magicless undead trick. A quick Gm note, if a player does want to do this treat it as modifided dead mans trigger with tons of penaltys for being a corps. I figure it keeps the corpse reanimated long enough for the cyber ware to drain the last of the enegry from the host
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Akai Sokata)
They make cloned organs and parts, but not whole bodys of clients.

That's what they tell their customers. wink.gif

In fact, it is canon that clones are full grown and then harvested.
BishopMcQ
page reference?
MK Ultra
Dunno the page, but its in Shadowtech!

Edit: ARRRRRRRRGHH top of the next page ARRRRRRRRRRRGHH
Feshy
QUOTE (McQuillan)
page reference?

Shadowtech. They mention it specifically on page 11, though the conversation begins and ends on earlier and later pages.
Ed_209a
The brain is the most oxygen-sensitive organ in your body. You could be passed out from blood loss and still have enough ovygen transport to run your muscles. Also, muscles are able to operate without oxygen for a while. That is how we are able to sprint.

With the headware listed above, and skillwires to operate the muscles, I don't see why it would not allow your unconscious body to move. I don't think it would be able to impersonate you with any kind of success. If this were possible, Deus would have done it to take over Renraku.

At that point you are really an anthro drone with a ceramic framework and biotech drivetrain, but it is still an interesting concept. The "cyberzombie" could not go far. I would guess well under a mile. They might be able to exit the battlefield and call for help.

Here's an additional thought. Carry a Anthro pilot program, and then a standard auto pilot program. Your anthro pilot's prime order is to find a car, and jack into it. Then the autosolft takes over. That probably isn't enough to make it a "drone modded" vehicle, but it might get you to the clinic of your choice.

Speaking of clinics, having video and audio recording while you are under anesthetic sounds like a really good idea at a shadow clinic.

That or have your friends scrub in too.
FrankTrollman
Shadowrun has both medical clones (shadowtech p. 11) and vat grown specific organs (SR2, p. 114). Why they use both techniques hasn't ever been fully explained.

I don't think I could even speculate on that subject.

-Frank
Ed_209a
Frank, If you are talking about the chat at the bottom of page 11, it sounds like only the organ in question comes out normal. That would make it the same as vat grown organs.

You might end up with a non-aware, misshapen lump of meat with a perfectly formed, perfectly functional, heart in the middle.

Space Ghost
If you suddenly find yourself in need of an organ (because it was shot out and you're currently on life-support), you want a cloned organ. If you want to be prepared for the loss of an organ before it gets shot out, but you're not quite sure which one it will be, get the docwagon contract with full clone body.


"Your organ will be grown in 3-6 weeks, after you get through the waiting list. If you're still alive by then, you can have. But you might die by then, 'cause, y'know, you're missing a vital organ an' all. Oh, but don't spend all your cash to cover your hospitalization, cause we don't take I.O.U.s."
Crusher Bob
If i recall correctly Docwagon Platinum? provides a fully grown clone for instant spare parts. You can try the description of the various Docwagon contract levels to be sure.
FrankTrollman
DocWagon Platinum grows a medical clone of you according to SR1-3. SR4 does not mention it, but presumably it still does.

-Frank
Erebus
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
DocWagon Platinum grows a medical clone of you according to SR1-3. SR4 does not mention it, but presumably it still does.

-Frank

Can anyone say: "The Island"?

Not a bad idea for a run... You show up to greet yourself.
Azralon
QUOTE (Erebus @ Jan 13 2006, 01:58 PM)
You show up to greet yourself.

Well, the clone would need a full-on personafix and memories and whatnot.

But yeah, body doubling is a great supervillain schtick: "How can this be? You're dead! I killed you myself! I burned the body!"

Someone remind me to do a self-motivated run against DocWagon to liberate some future incriminating DNA evidence.
Fix-it
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Shadowrun has both medical clones (shadowtech p. 11) and vat grown specific organs (SR2, p. 114). Why they use both techniques hasn't ever been fully explained.

I don't think I could even speculate on that subject.

-Frank

Different price ranges.

Your average joe (office worker whatever) might only just need a new heart if he has a bad genetic history, or a new liver after beating it shitless with alchohol, or lungs if he develops the cancer.

People in more prominent positions are more suceptible to um, accidents. So they would keep a full clone's worth of stuff on ice just in case.
Azralon
Behold the power of Platinum DocWagon.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012