1) Say you load an agent into your commlink. You then put it in control of your skillwire system, and load up a dodge skillsoft. Can your agent control your body while you are in full VR mode to dodge for you?
2) If you leave an agent in a node and the agent gets destroyed. Can you just load up another copy of that agent for use elsewhere?
3) Can you make copies of agents much like you would copy programs?
The Horror
Full Version: A question on the use of Agents
Good questions.
Better yet, #1: After your commlink is hacked, can I upload my agent into your commlink which forces you into VR and controls your body through your skillwires?
Questions 2 and 3 are really the same: There's no difference in the RAW between Agent/Pilots and other software in regards to copying them. If they were legally purchased, you have to crack them before able to make copies of them. If you coded the software yourself, then you won't have that problem. But either way, making a copy takes time, and once copied needs a home since it exists seperately. (pgs. 228 and 240)
But I guess storage space isn't much of an issue anymore... (I kinda miss that).
Better yet, #1: After your commlink is hacked, can I upload my agent into your commlink which forces you into VR and controls your body through your skillwires?
Questions 2 and 3 are really the same: There's no difference in the RAW between Agent/Pilots and other software in regards to copying them. If they were legally purchased, you have to crack them before able to make copies of them. If you coded the software yourself, then you won't have that problem. But either way, making a copy takes time, and once copied needs a home since it exists seperately. (pgs. 228 and 240)
But I guess storage space isn't much of an issue anymore... (I kinda miss that).
1) No way!!! Skill softs do not roboticly control your body, even with skill wires. They help out with the subconsious signals that would normaly guide your movements if you knew the skill for real.
If you want to allow skillwires to be able to go on auto-pilot when the user is doing something else, then skillwires in your game always take complete control of your body when using an active soft. I donīt think many would buy them then. It seems rather scary.
2) Sure
3) I donīt see why not
If you want to allow skillwires to be able to go on auto-pilot when the user is doing something else, then skillwires in your game always take complete control of your body when using an active soft. I donīt think many would buy them then. It seems rather scary.
2) Sure
3) I donīt see why not
| QUOTE (mintcar @ Jan 22 2006, 08:19 AM) |
| If you want to allow skillwires to be able to go on auto-pilot when the user is doing something else, then skillwires in your game always take complete control of your body when using an active soft. |
Heh. Playing devil's advocate:
"Skillwires are a system of neuromuscular
controllers placed alongside the bodys natural nervous
system to override muscular movement." -- pg. 335
^ Makes a strong arguement that Skillwires could potentially be used to move a person's body, atleast when they are not resisting (or are incapable of resisting). And in no way do the RAW imply that activesofts merely aid the user's already present skill, subconsciously or otherwise... they replace them.
It could be argued whether an Agent (let's say Rating 4) is sophisticated to control a human body. I'd say definately yes, since a Pilot can control a drone, and perform complicated tasks ala autosofts. But can an agent "use" an Activesoft? No. Can a hacker code specialized software usable by an Agent that acted as a bridge between the two? Definately. Is any of this balanced in game terms? Probably not.
Something about this really bothers me.
Talk about technology depersonalising people. Blah.
Whatever 
. The purpose of skillwires is to provide a user with the ability to do something they would be incapable of otherwise. Letīs say itīs weaving a basket. Now, you could propably get started weaving that basket just by looking at illustrated instructions. However to do it skillfully, your fingers would have to remember what to do. For skillwires to accomplish what they are made for they would only have to provide that subconsious, corporeal memory (or whatever you like to call it), in addition to the theoretical knowledge of what to do. They would not need to control your movements entirely. Giving them the ability to do that would be dangerous and overkill.
Thatīs my interpretation.
Hacking someoneīs skill softs could give you the opportunity to cause seizures or have the user do something differently when they later use them. Thatīs about what I would allow.
So the text says they override muscular movement. But to what degree? Are they powerful enough to sever a limb from consious control for an extended time? To snatch control over the entire body even? It doesnīt say. I guess we have to go with common sense.
. The purpose of skillwires is to provide a user with the ability to do something they would be incapable of otherwise. Letīs say itīs weaving a basket. Now, you could propably get started weaving that basket just by looking at illustrated instructions. However to do it skillfully, your fingers would have to remember what to do. For skillwires to accomplish what they are made for they would only have to provide that subconsious, corporeal memory (or whatever you like to call it), in addition to the theoretical knowledge of what to do. They would not need to control your movements entirely. Giving them the ability to do that would be dangerous and overkill.Thatīs my interpretation.
Hacking someoneīs skill softs could give you the opportunity to cause seizures or have the user do something differently when they later use them. Thatīs about what I would allow.
So the text says they override muscular movement. But to what degree? Are they powerful enough to sever a limb from consious control for an extended time? To snatch control over the entire body even? It doesnīt say. I guess we have to go with common sense.
You can pull this sort of stunt with Muscle Replacement, as well.
| QUOTE (nick012000) |
| You can pull this sort of stunt with Muscle Replacement, as well. |
Maybe you could. I would have no idea how to do that.
| QUOTE (mintcar @ Jan 22 2006, 08:43 AM) |
| So the text says they override muscular movement. But to what degree? Are they powerful enough to sever a limb from consious control for an extended time? |
But what if the person was unconscious or in VR? They'd be unable to resist (Well, I guess if in VR they could try to hack their own commlink to regain control
). The OP's situation was one where he'd voluntarilly let his agent act as the brain for his skillwires while he was off floating around in VR. So the only thing we're left with now is trying to determine the degree of control over one's body the skillwire system has.
We should look at the type of activities the skillwire system allows the user to do, and determine if we can explain them away with "subconscious memory" and "theoretical knowledge".
My thoughts on Muscle Replacement:
"Muscle Replacement: Implanted, vat-grown synthetic
muscles replace the users own." pg. 334
RAW imply that all of the user's muscles are replaced. If the Muscle Replacement was a subscriber to the character's commlink, then I don't see how an Agent with an appropriate autosoft wouldn't be able to control it (as long as the character didn't resist, or was incapable of resisting). Yeah, that's scary.
Has anyone explored the possibility of rendering a person braindead, and then having an agent control the body from then on?
I think thereīs a desire to make these things possible for the same reason people regularily ask for more incentive to get a full body cyber replacement. Some people are always looking for ways of making their characters into robots. If thatīs what you desire, you should go that route. In the setting so far, the only really robot like individuals are cyber-zombies, and I like it that way personaly. Itīs certainly not hard to increase the significance of muscle replacement and skillwires to get a more inhuman feeling from those modifications if you want a more high sci-fi setting, though.
| QUOTE (mintcar @ Jan 22 2006, 09:18 AM) |
| I think thereīs a desire to make these things possible for the same reason people regularily ask for more incentive to get a full body cyber replacement. |
I think you just called me a munchkin.
Naa. You donīt seem that eager. Youīre having a discussion 
. And further more I donīt think itīs munchkinism that has people thinking about things like this, itīs what they concider cool. If commonly used cyberware made people into robots, the setting would be very different. Propably even more frightening and dark. Itīs not the Shadowrun I know though.
I would allow a hacker to get a highly customized combination of muscle replacements and skillwires and other stuff to make his body into a drone, maybe. For a character, that would have to be part of a very compelling concept for me to allow it. Itīd be just right for NPCs though, but even then very uncommon. I donīt see why any combination of īware would even be capable of this kind of stuff out of the box.
. And further more I donīt think itīs munchkinism that has people thinking about things like this, itīs what they concider cool. If commonly used cyberware made people into robots, the setting would be very different. Propably even more frightening and dark. Itīs not the Shadowrun I know though. I would allow a hacker to get a highly customized combination of muscle replacements and skillwires and other stuff to make his body into a drone, maybe. For a character, that would have to be part of a very compelling concept for me to allow it. Itīd be just right for NPCs though, but even then very uncommon. I donīt see why any combination of īware would even be capable of this kind of stuff out of the box.
I always look at things from the GM's perspective (since I always GM). I usually allow players to come up with interesting slants on old tech -- but only if I can use it against them, too.
So, in this case... I'd allow either skillwires or muscle replacement to be used in this way, but I'd make it so having it done against you was more frightening than using it was beneficial.
Which in this case, I think it is. It gives me another tool to use against the players... It's a fate worse than death, which is great for me!
As far as player concept goes: What if they start out this way? Their character is the Agent who was put into someone's body. Hell, I could come up with quite a few variations on that theme... Asks a lot of interesting moral questions. Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep?
But now we're moving into Transhuman Space (which, imo, isn't altogether bad). It could be argued that commlinks and AR were completely ripped from Transhuman Space RPG.
EDIT: On second though... They'd effectively have High Pain Threshold 18 unless voluntarilly using a simrig. Oh well, it's the realm of NPCs then :
:
So, in this case... I'd allow either skillwires or muscle replacement to be used in this way, but I'd make it so having it done against you was more frightening than using it was beneficial.
Which in this case, I think it is. It gives me another tool to use against the players... It's a fate worse than death, which is great for me!
As far as player concept goes: What if they start out this way? Their character is the Agent who was put into someone's body. Hell, I could come up with quite a few variations on that theme... Asks a lot of interesting moral questions. Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep?
But now we're moving into Transhuman Space (which, imo, isn't altogether bad). It could be argued that commlinks and AR were completely ripped from Transhuman Space RPG.
EDIT: On second though... They'd effectively have High Pain Threshold 18 unless voluntarilly using a simrig. Oh well, it's the realm of NPCs then :
:
| QUOTE (Angelstandings) |
| As far as player concept goes: What if they start out this way? Their character is the Agent who was put into someone's body. Hell, I could come up with quite a few variations on that theme... Asks a lot of interesting moral questions. Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep? |
That is one of the coolest ideas I have read in a long time. Oh the possibilities.
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