So does anyone have an idea what various flavors of Wage Slaves earn? I've always used the Lifestyle costs as a base and have guessed that much like today that fixed costs represent about 75% of a household's income, so use 125% of the lifestyle cost as the employee's wage. I figure most gainfully employed people have at least Low Lifestyle, though some really menial jobs may only afford squatter status, and move up as they climb the corporate food chain. The question is where are the Lifestyle dividers?
Entry Level = Low
Senior employee = Low or Medium?
Middle Management = Medium or High?
Senior Managemenr = High (probably)
Corporate Exectutive = High or Luxury?
And then the employees area of expertise and level of education probably affects this too. Thoughts or additions welcome, I'm trying to build a system.
Full Version: Wages
i think i'd go with what you said at the end to draw your divisions. an educated senior employee gets pushed to a medium, while an uneducated senior employee slides in at low... same with middle management, if you got there with an education, you're probably at high, got there through hard work, you're still making less then the educated bumpkins.
I'd say that with the amount of corprate paternalism present in SR more like 80 or 90 percent of an employees wage goes to fixed costs. Also remember that even today two jobs are usually nessesary for a family to make ends meet. I'd say a given job makes maby 75% of what you suggest.
Within Megacorp enclaves, which are really paragons of socialist economics despite their capitolist nature, wage is meaningless except in regards to class distinction.
Wageslaves will use corp transportation, buy corp food, watch corp TV, it is almost perfect resource recycling. Practically every nuyen paid out goes back to the corp.
Corporations can cut down on resource loss by providing perks. Employees get free housing, free meals, free medical care, free simsense, and ect. but thir pay will be adjusted accordingly. They will have far less expenses but they will also have less money to spend outside of the corp.
Almost certainly, employees in enclaves and arcologies have low wages but high lifestyle to maximize produtivity and employee satisfaction while minimizing corporate resource loss.
Wageslaves will use corp transportation, buy corp food, watch corp TV, it is almost perfect resource recycling. Practically every nuyen paid out goes back to the corp.
Corporations can cut down on resource loss by providing perks. Employees get free housing, free meals, free medical care, free simsense, and ect. but thir pay will be adjusted accordingly. They will have far less expenses but they will also have less money to spend outside of the corp.
Almost certainly, employees in enclaves and arcologies have low wages but high lifestyle to maximize produtivity and employee satisfaction while minimizing corporate resource loss.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Within Megacorp enclaves, which are really paragons of socialist economics despite their capitolist nature, wage is meaningless except in regards to class distinction. Wageslaves will use corp transportation, buy corp food, watch corp TV, it is almost perfect resource recycling. Practically every nuyen paid out goes back to the corp. Corporations can cut down on resource loss by providing perks. Employees get free housing, free meals, free medical care, free simsense, and ect. but thir pay will be adjusted accordingly. They will have far less expenses but they will also have less money to spend outside of the corp. Almost certainly, employees in enclaves and arcologies have low wages but high lifestyle to maximize produtivity and employee satisfaction while minimizing corporate resource loss. |
Well wage is not so much meaningless as it's corp script and can't be used outside of the corp enclave/arcology itself (unless said wageslave/manager has connections to the underworld script exchange).
| QUOTE (imperialus) |
| Also remember that even today two jobs are usually nessesary for a family to make ends meet. |
Not everywhere in the world.
I think most wagers wonīt have much of ther monthly incom left for savings, they have corporate-bonus-programs for that instead. SOTA64 gives a nice closeup on employeevaluation, most corpslaves wonīt be abled to have vacations without these bonus points, which depend on performance and social adaptability, so they are great controll mechanisms.
All cash left (at least in AA+) will be script and no employee without illegal habits like BTL wonīt bother geting anything not provided by mother corp or itīs partners! Imagin a Renraku-employee running around with a Transsys Avalon Comlink. This would cost him lots of bonus points, so no familie vacation to the carebian for this year.
All cash left (at least in AA+) will be script and no employee without illegal habits like BTL wonīt bother geting anything not provided by mother corp or itīs partners! Imagin a Renraku-employee running around with a Transsys Avalon Comlink. This would cost him lots of bonus points, so no familie vacation to the carebian for this year.
| QUOTE (Grinder) | ||
Not everywhere in the world. |
The 75% (approximate number) is based on a Two Income Family in the USA. Since Seattle is located in the UCAS, and the UCAS is essentially the descendant of the USA that's the economic model I'm working with.
Within the Corporate enclaves it is certainly true that not all of an employee's compensation may be in cash, however only AA companies and up are able to issue corporate scrip, A and smaller still have to play by the laws of their Physical Location and goverments universally reserve the power to issue monies. So the Clerk at Stuffer Shack is probably getting paid in local currency or NuYen.
I did a few calculations based on the model I originally outlined.
Entry Level Employee: 30K per year or 15 per hour based on 2000 hour work year
Senior Manager: 150K or 75 per hour (of course they are on Salary and probably get bonuses and options too, but I'm just modeling base pay here)
So assuming the NuYen is roughly equal to the 2005 US Dollar in relative purchasing power they seem to more or less work as a base. I'm still working on additional modifiers for Level of education and area of expertise.
Spending follows wages, not the other way around. At least in the long run, because those damn credit cards eventually max out.
If they are in a two wage earner family their wages will indeed be around 75% or something like that. If they are in a one wage earner family their wages will obviously be higher compared to their lifestyle. Though they are likely going to have a lower lifestyle.
Unlike SR characters, real people's lifestyle costs do all fall exactly on one of 4 or 5 numbers. But if you are trying to come up with an average then you need to look at how many typical wage earners there are per family. Which is what stevebugge seems to be doing.
If they are in a two wage earner family their wages will indeed be around 75% or something like that. If they are in a one wage earner family their wages will obviously be higher compared to their lifestyle. Though they are likely going to have a lower lifestyle.
Unlike SR characters, real people's lifestyle costs do all fall exactly on one of 4 or 5 numbers. But if you are trying to come up with an average then you need to look at how many typical wage earners there are per family. Which is what stevebugge seems to be doing.
| QUOTE (Brahm) |
| If they are in a two wage earner family their wages will indeed be around 75% or something like that. If they are in a one wage earner family their wages will obviously be higher compared to their lifestyle. Though they are likely going to have a lower lifestyle. Unlike SR characters, real people's lifestyle costs do all fall exactly on one of 4 or 5 numbers. But if you are trying to come up with an average then you need to look at how many typical wage earners there are per family. Which is what stevebugge seems to be doing. |
This is pretty much what I'm trying to do, make a useable SR4 Wage basis for non-shadowrunners based loosely on real world data. SR3 already has quite abit on the subject, but as many of you may have noticed one of the things to change in SR4 were the economics of the game system. Lots of prices for gear changed drastically, meaning that lots of the price/wage/cost of living/payment for run info in SR3 doesn't fit very well anymore.
By establishing a wage baseline you have a basis for which to extrapolate prices, costs, and payments for things not listed specifically in the book(s). This will save you a lot of headaches as a GM, not because it's right but it's relatively accurate and allows you to be consistent and have a reason why your payments or prices are set the way they are.
In order to make it useful it needs to be greatly simplified from real life, and because SR is set 65 years in the future you have to make some assumptions. (you know after writing that I have a lot more appreciation for the work the game developers do, I wonder how many sleepless nights they have wrestling with realism vs. useablility issues). So in short 75% of total wages spent on fixed costs (food, housing, healthcare, taxes, debt maintainence) is not the exact average, but it's very close. The items included in fixed costs pretty closely mirror what is described in SR as lifestyle costs. Lifestyle Cost * 1.25 = Wages actually sets fixed costs higher than 75% as well, but it makes the math easier than Lifestyle Cost * 1.333~ so that's why I opted to use it.
Now anyone who studies economics will quickly point out that this model is useless for anything other than very broad generalizations and that it takes ano account for income brackets, age groups, regionalization, etc. But then again I've lost count of the number of times I've seen the "Firearms system in SR doesn't take in to account X,Y,Z it's not very realistsic" thread, and I've only been here like 3 months. If you want realism go for it, but I don't think I'd enjoy ShadowMacroEconomics as much as Shadowrun.
thankfully i'm a player in SR4 so far, so i dont need to worry much about this.
but, a couple things to consider. First, while, compared to Sr3, prices did go down, but so did starting cash, and i would assume, earnings per run are supposed to be reduced (or, maybe, by cannon, stay the same, since the recomendations are, even in my opinion, abusrd for rates for runs.)
Secondly, theres a side bar in the gear chapter at the end of the book that gives prices for useful services, that you might be able to use to compare to RL prices. I'm not sure, but for some reason i've got a 1:5 ratio for yen to dollars in my mind that i heard from somewhere. But, looking at the chart, that doesnt seem right for most things (100 yen for 24 hours in a hotel, 2 yen for a vedning machine meal) but on some things, it does seem like a reasonable exchange rate(20-50 yen for a hooker, but it doesnt say if thats per hour or per uhh.. "service")
but, a couple things to consider. First, while, compared to Sr3, prices did go down, but so did starting cash, and i would assume, earnings per run are supposed to be reduced (or, maybe, by cannon, stay the same, since the recomendations are, even in my opinion, abusrd for rates for runs.)
Secondly, theres a side bar in the gear chapter at the end of the book that gives prices for useful services, that you might be able to use to compare to RL prices. I'm not sure, but for some reason i've got a 1:5 ratio for yen to dollars in my mind that i heard from somewhere. But, looking at the chart, that doesnt seem right for most things (100 yen for 24 hours in a hotel, 2 yen for a vedning machine meal) but on some things, it does seem like a reasonable exchange rate(20-50 yen for a hooker, but it doesnt say if thats per hour or per uhh.. "service")
The ~1/5 ratio is 
/ UCAS-$ from NAGNA & SONA. I guess the UCAS-$ (and possibly the US-$ before) have inflated a bit compared to the Nippon-Megaeconomy in SR-Past. So I wouldnīt assume teh UCAS-$ to have the same buying-power in SR as the US-$ has today.
/ UCAS-$ from NAGNA & SONA. I guess the UCAS-$ (and possibly the US-$ before) have inflated a bit compared to the Nippon-Megaeconomy in SR-Past. So I wouldnīt assume teh UCAS-$ to have the same buying-power in SR as the US-$ has today.
| QUOTE (MK Ultra) |
| The ~1/5 ratio is / UCAS-$ from NAGNA & SONA. I guess the UCAS-$ (and possibly the US-$ before) have inflated a bit compared to the Nippon-Megaeconomy in SR-Past. So I wouldnīt assume teh UCAS-$ to have the same buying-power in SR as the US-$ has today. |
I didn't I assumed the UCAS Dollar to have one fifth the purchasing power the 2005 USD had. However that means that the NuYen:UCAS $ 1:5 ratio means the 2005 USD : NuYen is around 1:1. Again it keeps the math easy and makes the approximations of item costs a bit easier.
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| thankfully i'm a player in SR4 so far, so i dont need to worry much about this. but, a couple things to consider. First, while, compared to Sr3, prices did go down, but so did starting cash, and i would assume, earnings per run are supposed to be reduced (or, maybe, by cannon, stay the same, since the recomendations are, even in my opinion, abusrd for rates for runs.) Secondly, theres a side bar in the gear chapter at the end of the book that gives prices for useful services, that you might be able to use to compare to RL prices. I'm not sure, but for some reason i've got a 1:5 ratio for yen to dollars in my mind that i heard from somewhere. But, looking at the chart, that doesnt seem right for most things (100 yen for 24 hours in a hotel, 2 yen for a vedning machine meal) but on some things, it does seem like a reasonable exchange rate(20-50 yen for a hooker, but it doesnt say if thats per hour or per uhh.. "service") |
That sidebar is great, but not exhaustive by any means. I'm sure given time your players will ask for something that should be readily available, but is not listed anywhere in canon, that's when having a system to improvise with comes in handy. The 5:1 Dollar to NuYen ratio works pretty well when you consider that the 1950 USD : 2005 USD ratio is also about 1:5 and that is for 55 years using a 3% average inflation (not entirely safe considering that the US was still on the Gold Standard in 1950 and most exchange rates were fixed). So in 2070 a motel room costing $500 for a night is perfectly believable, in fact it may be low.
So with that in mind if a team of 5 runners makes 5000 Nuyen on 1 weeks work, and splits it evenly, converted to a wage scale they are at around 52000 per year, or right in between Low and Medium wage earners using my system. Right about where a starting team with no reputation should be.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.