The rulebook mentions that a smartlinked weapon is equiped with a camera and can be fired around corners (p. 312) and that a smart firing platform with a smartlinked weapon can be fired remotely (p. 311).

Are there any specific modifiers for doing either of these actions? I've looked around and haven't found any yet.

Thanks!

JKL

Not to my knowledge. But one could rule (and I´d understand the spirit of the rules that way), that the inverse cover modifires are applied in this case. So you got full cover which is +6 (or was it still 8?) ore something to defend, but you get +3 (or 4) to attack as well!
This would not apply IMO by fiering a smartgun remotely from a fieringplatforme.

I believe the smart firing platforms are just drones with no wheels.

In my opinion, the closest equivalent to firing around a corner with a smartgun is actually zooming with a scope or cybereye magnification. Shooting around the corner with a smartgun means shooting through a reduced field of view, very similar to shooting through a scope; so I'd rule that the same restrictions/mods apply.

I see no reason why a smartlink wouldn't have the same field of vision as one eye. I don't believe it would be a narrow little picture, that seems silly.

well, closing one eye does narrow your field of vision quite a bit. that said, there's no information on what kind of field of view a smartlink sensor gives you.

Ignore me if you saw this before I edited. Sam Adams said not to pay attention when I saw the example from the text in the first post.

Firing around corners is a good idea, use a shotgun on FA. Mods wont matter too much then...

But, I'd give Attacking from Cover mods as well.

I might apply the same mods that spellcasters get casting through magesight or periscopes, which, IIRC, is a -2.

All other things aside, firing a gun around a corner is a bizarre way to use it, and ergonomically uncomfortable (the recoil doesn't go back into your body, you're probably twisting your wrist or elbow, etc). I don't have a serious problem applying a (fairly small) -2 to the check.

Thanks everyone for their input. This helps a lot.

JKL

-2 seems fair, basically just negates the normal bonus from the smartlink.

The ability to shoot around corners is one of the selling points of the Land Warrior system. It isn't bizzare at all.

One more thing I wouold like to add.

When firing around a corner one assumes an unusual posture and grip on the weapon, thus reducing the ability to ride out recoil and action of the weapon during the firing cycle, maybe we should also consider the effects of recoil as well?

None of what you've said changes the fact that if both the weapon and the device providing a visual of the target are moving together, then there will be no accuracy gained by having a reticle at all. In fact, since your visual changes as you attempt to adjust aim, it's going to negatively impact your accuracy.

You can know the range and be using your favorite hand load, but looking through a camera while poking your weapon around a corner is not going to help your accuracy.

As to the rest of your post, you're not understanding the reasoning behind what I'm saying.

If the device collecting data to be translated into the location of the reticle within your field of vision, and the device providing that field of vision are moving in tandem, then the system is useless. I don't know how to explain it any better without drawing a picture. (Not sarcasm, btw. I honestly think I could show you easier visually.)

Disagree all you like. It's a free 'net. (so far anyway)

I reread the SR3 and SR4 entries (main book and sources), and I see nothing that indicates that the SL system turns your weapon into some magic-missile of hot lead. All I see is confirmation after confirmation that it shows where your weapon is pointed, and if equipped with a rangefinder (an add-on in SR3, standard issue in SR4) tells you how far away the target is. These translate as a targetting reticle that grants a modifier making it easier to hit your target. Not a given that you're going to put a bullet in that exact spot, a modifier to how good your chance is of doing so.

This helps, but still does not conclude anything.

It says that it shows you the correct trajectory, and line of fire and all that, right? But that is when you are looking at the physical target with your own two eyes.

I agree with the narrow feild of vision mentioned above. You are no longer looking at a target while using the smartgun's visual overlays, but hiding behind a corner using only the guns one eye. Not only is this a more narrow field of vision, but when seeing out of only one eye (or a camera lens) you lose a large amount of you depth perception...

Also, I would think that whatever you are looking at on the safe side of the wall would be a distraction, perhaps similar to when a hacker is trying to hack in AR in the miiddle of a fight.

Speaking as a guy who does a decent amount of shooting in real life, there's a few comfortable positions to hold a firearm in, and an infinite variety of uncomfortable ones. If you're sticking your hand around a corner with enough of a bend at the wrist that the rest of your body is protected, regardless of whether you're using a pistol or a long gun, you've just assumed one of the oddball positions that trained shooters don't use, because it doesn't let them actually aim at the target and the weapon is largely unsupported in a body-ergonomics kind of way.

The laser sight puts a dot of light where the gun is pointed, theoretically helping your aim (hence, the +1). The smartgun link, asides from the whole camera-around-a-corner bit, DNI control of the piece, and the fact that it takes range-to-target into consideration for ballistic arc, is basically doing the same thing but with the dot much easier to see and inside your eyeball. Shooting it normally, you're going to be used to seeing a reticle on your vision, which would help some when using the sights on the weapon and help more if you're firing from the hip or off the shoulder, but when you get down to the point where you're looking at a little screen in your field of view and moving a crosshair around by manipulating your weapon at an odd angle, you're doing something which is totally unlike the motions you go through for any kind of a "normal" shot. Giving out a -2 for the sheer awkwardness involved really doesn't seem that "out there."

As for whether or not this concept is bizarre... some snipers in WWI used periscope-equipped rifles for firing from trenches. You can even buy a periscope sight for a pistol now that uses a little screen rather than just pure optical reflection, and has a stock built in so that you can shoulder it and use it more comfortably around the corner. And you know what? Neither of them is a common sight by any means, mostly because people don't want to bother, and find them much harder to use than a conventional shooting position, added exposure or not. I think that safely bumps them into the "bizarre" range.

My Take on the new smartgun mod is based on the Land Warrior setup. Have you ever played Ghost Recon 2 on the XBOX? In the single warrior scenario you are using the Land Warrior mod/simulations that are in practice at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. The camera on the gun leads to optical visor via a Optical Cable. With this system you can kneel or lay down and shoot around the corner as long as the weapon system can fit there. The weapon system has more recoil bonuses on it to absorb the shock as you are holding it by the stock and on the barrel grips. You see through the camera with a rangefinder attached and are able to "lock" on a specific range to fire linked grenades. Also you do get an aiming reticle that is fixed. Wherever the reticle is placed rounds fly down range.

Is it nearly as fast or as easy as, say, firing from the shoulder with the iron sights?

Smartlink is a vision mod now, and all smartgun cameras support all vision mods. So be sure to have smartlink in your eyes and your guns for +4 dice.

eidolon, you may want to re-read the SL fluff in SR4. it specifically states that the SL calculates ballistic firing arcs. that's a lot more than simply showing you where your gun is pointed.

I think I'd like my smartlink to not paint a 2d reticle floating over the intended destination, but instead to paint a 3d ballistic arc in my field of vision that describes the estimated computed trajectory of the next round I fire.

Kind of like a laser sight that takes gravity, slug spin, ambient air temperature, and whatnot all into consideration to show me the likely path of the bullet rather than just a dot near where it's going to hit.

Ya hear that, gods of future technology? Give me that. And self-heating burritos.

Lets take this strictly by the rules and not make any real life inferences.

You are firing from cover -1 penalty.

You have a smartlinked weapon +2 bonus.

Total of +1.

The smartlink allows you to fire the weapon out of cover without exposing yourself, giving you total cover(assuming the cover you're in provides it).


Thats how the rules work as is. You get the bonus because you have a smartlinked weapon. There is nothing to say that because you're in a odd position you don't get the bonus or because you can not directly see you don't get the bonus for having the smartlink.

Anything beyond the above would be a houserule.

Woo...horray for flamewars...

Did read the thread, did read your horrible posts, and in my opinion completely silly conclusions.

Yup the -1 would be for awkward positions or whatever you want to call it.

And yes I have plenty of experiance shooting out of cover from awkward positions such as laying on my back, leaning around corners, leaning at a odd angle to get a shot. Playing airsoft competitively will give you that. Hunting will give you that.

Technicaly yes you're going to expose a small sliver of your body almost 100% of the time when fireing from cover even if you're using the smartlink...afterall you have your hands. But luckaly the rules and most competent GM's aren't that rediculouse.

Oh yes i got your pov slightly confused with someone elses. However your idea is flawed a great deal in my opininon. Your contention, if I have reread it correctly and feel free to correct me instead of acting ignorant again, is that, because the device collecting data and the device displaying the data move in tandem it would not provide you any assistance in aiming, no more so than your standard sight.

The silly part of your thoughts is that if you're not using the camera feed and the reticle moves about in your field of vision it would give you the bonus because its somehow superior, yet really doesn't do much for you either.

The bonus from the smartgun doesn't just come from the site. It comes from the calculations, and the fact the site is BETTER than looking down any iron sights or scope, because its exactly where the barrel is. Ironsights change depending on where your head is in them (angle of viewing atleast). So with a smartlink, even on a camera feed, you still see exactly where that barrel is pointed and will hit assuming ideal conditions for firing no matter which way your head is pointing and which way your facing.

Lets assume for a moment you're correct ( i don't believe you are because the idea is silly at best ) that the movement of both reciever and collector negate the bonus. So what would happen if i didn't move my head while orienting the weapon to fire from cover without exposing myself? only one of the two would be moving. Furthered by closing the other eye to make sure the smartlink is all i see. And if needed orienting my head in the direction of where the gun is pointed. I see no reason not to give the smartlink bonus there.

and ghost recon is from red storm (iirc), the company started by tom clancy. alltho im not so sure i like his fictional works, he seems to be up to speed on the technology of war, and this have rubbed of on the company. ie, they make sure that the technology turns out as realistic as they an make it (one shot kills and all).

Hmm. I can see your point on that one, but I honestly just can't see any aiming aid really doing that much for you when the entire field of vision and everything in it is wobbling.

Honestly, I think it's quite enough that you can even take the shot "around a corner". Tech granting that is pretty sweet, admittedly. I just don't think there's anything that would negate the fact that your whole world shifts as you try to change your aim. Although perhaps slightly better due to a larger field of vision, I imagine this to be much like trying to acquire a target in a scope, not having seen the target before you began trying to acquire it. Your field shifts so rapidly that it's hard to move "just enough".

Also, all of that ballistic information and targeting assistance is given based on where you're aiming the weapon, right? What I mean is in order for it to judge range (and all that other stuff), it has to "know" what it is that it's supposed to be judging the range to. It knows this based on the general target at which you're pointing the weapon (and its various data-collection devices). In other words, the reticle (and targeting data) relies on you pointing the weapon at the target in the first place. It's not some magic process by which the smartlink picks out a target and drags your arms and weapon into position to hit it. You pick a target, you aim, and it puts a reticle where the round is most likely to hit based on the data that it is able to collect.

Hmm again. actually, based on that and some rethinking that typing it out caused me to do, I might allow the SL bonus. Perhaps to reflect that although once you have a bead on your target the SL is doing its job, it's harder to acquire the target through a camera? Then just slap on a penalty for having to try and acquire a target through a camera?

But hey, at least you're responding in sentences, and have actually read and thought about the posts in the thread. Yours is a disagreement that I can respect.