Elhazard
Oct 5 2003, 01:41 AM
In my group we came up in an intresting character concept for an Adept. Basically we built him after a Cleric from the movie Equilibrium so hes a Pysad who specializes in Gun Fu and has most of his powers to enhance his shootin IE ehanced attribute quickness. A question we came up with how could you make the guns Foci if its even possible and to what extent Ie use them to focus a TK strike in them or killing hands on the bullets maybe. Just a random thought
Ancient History
Oct 5 2003, 01:48 AM
We've done this before, but I'll try and do this gently:
1)This is SR, not DnD, otherwise known as That Other Game. There are clerics in SR, who are members of established religions, but no Clerics. Please do not mix terms, or you will be flamed.
2)Gun foci do not work. A weapon focus must be a melee weapon. If you would like to use your gun to club people over the head, and then enchant it as a Club weapon focus, you are more than allowed to. But you cannot, within the rules system, create a focus to impreove your Pistols skill.
Now, while I admit the movie is kick-ass and would make an excellent character, you should consider working within the established rules structure.
For example: your physad could take Killing Hands, Nerve Strike or Flaming Hands with the Distrance Strike Abilty, and geas it so that it only applies when you are shooting people, if the bullet hits.
Likewise, rather than focus on a magical gun weapon focus, you can use the Increase ABility adept power to improve your normal skill with Pistols or other firearms. I would likewise suggest taking some Improved Sense powers, such as Vision Magnification, for long shots.
Herald of Verjigorm
Oct 5 2003, 01:50 AM
You would need to take (to be accurate to the movie):
Pistols, Clubs, Some form of Unarmed, Athletics, Edged Weapons, a meditation skill
Increased reflexes, maybe some boosted skills and senses
also, initiate and take centering, a few times
then you will resemble what is shown in the movie.
The guns could serve as centering foci, that would actually make some sense. If you made them weapon foci, the bonuses only apply when clubing someone with the guns.
Elhazard
Oct 5 2003, 02:27 AM
OK well first off thanks for replying but the word Cleric was not invented by DnD but a while ago and it wasnt in refrence to that game anyways, in the movie he is called a Cleric by his order and hence used the name in that manner so sorry for the confusion as I am aware of the difference in systems and didnt mean to invoke some anti DnD feelings.
Second yeah we figured on the killing hand or distant strike with some other ability that would be focused in a geas thorugh the guns IE the powers only work if Im going through gun katas basicly but what we were trying to do was establish the guns themselves a magic foci for the ablilities themselves like a mage using a foci to enhance a powerball for example, Its not really nessisary to the game but we thought it would be cool.
Abstruse
Oct 5 2003, 02:56 AM
It wasn't the word "clerk" that set him off, but more like your capitalization of the word as Cleric, which is only done when it's part of a title ("Grand Cleric of the Children of the Dragon" or whatever) or when it's listed as a class in D&D books (Cleric, Fighter, Wizard, etc.).
The Abstruse One
John Campbell
Oct 5 2003, 03:00 AM
QUOTE (Ancient History) |
2)Gun foci do not work. A weapon focus must be a melee weapon. If you would like to use your gun to club people over the head, and then enchant it as a Club weapon focus, you are more than allowed to. But you cannot, within the rules system, create a focus to impreove your Pistols skill. |
You can, however, create one that improves the TNs for your Pistols skill. While you can't make a non-melee weapon focus, a gun that doubles as a sustaining or anchoring focus for Enhance Aim is legal and would fit the definition of "magic gun", I think. Could even come up with a limited version of Enhance Aim so that the bonus only applied when using the gun in question.
There's not much practical advantage to doing it that way, as opposed to having a regular gun and a separate Enhance Aim focus, and definite reasons not to (guns make lousy telesma - they're difficult to enchant - and if you lose the gun for whatever reason, you're out not just a fairly cheap weapon, but a cash- and Karma-expensive focus as well), but it can be done, and it scores cool points.
Geasing Improved Ability (Pistols) to using a specific gun is also a possibility. The gun itself is not actually magic in that case, but the effect is much the same. You get severely screwed if the gun is lost or destroyed, though...
Velocity
Oct 5 2003, 03:06 AM
With much respect to the Rev. Al Sharpton...
QUOTE |
Abstruse wrote: It wasn't the word "clerk" that set him off, but more like your capitalization of the word as Cleric, which is only done when it's part of a title |
But it is part of a title. Christian Bale's character is a Grammaton Cleric; that's his job title. It's his vocation... and occupation... to administer a little VACcination (in the form of IMmolation) to a POPulation craving some emotional inTOXication after the chemical CAStration of their imMAgination.
Take that, you jive turkeys.
...and whoever it was that came up with the name "Tetragrammaton" for the evil conspiracy government was a TOOL.
Actually, for Christian's Madd Cleric Gun-Fu all you really need is:
ambidexterity;
low-light vision;
and some reflex augs.
Ancient History
Oct 5 2003, 04:07 AM
QUOTE (Req) |
...and whoever it was that came up with the name "Tetragrammaton" for the evil conspiracy government was a TOOL. |
"Tetragrammatron" and could you clarify that statement, please?
Arcanum V
Oct 5 2003, 04:34 AM
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Oct 4 2003, 11:07 PM) |
"Tetragrammatron" and could you clarify that statement, please? |
No, it's Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton is a compound word formed from the Greek tetra ("four") and gramma ("letters") that specifically designates the name of God as it's expressed in four Hebrew letters: YHVH (Yod He Vav He). It's a good name for a group that is a religously conservative government deeply concerned with words and letters. Linguistically, a "Grammaton Cleric" would be a cleric that has something to do with words, such as protecting them, copying them, or, in this film, destroying them.
Ancient History
Oct 5 2003, 04:38 AM
Sorry. Mea culpa.
However, the Tetragrammaton is usually a reference to YHWH; at least in all the material I've read. I have not yet seen the movie, which is why I asked.
Glyph
Oct 5 2003, 05:49 AM
If you want a super-shot adept, take powers like vision magnification, improved ability/pistols, blind-fighting, and quick strike. You could take the Ambidexterity Edge if you want an old-fashioned gunslinger, or get <1 point of cyber (cybereyes with the works and a smartlink II) for more accuracy, or wait and get your mage buddy to make a gun that is also a sustaining focus for an enhance aim spell.
If you want guns that do "special effects", make an adept of the magical way with a few combat spells and a talisman/gun geas. Note that most GMs will not let you simultaneously cast a spell (or use an ability like distance strike) while actually shooting the gun. Pointing the gun would just be the geas needed for the magical attack.
i made a 2-point adept power called Fluidity that provides a -1 TN to all dodge tests. you might talk to your GM about using it.
Drain Brain
Oct 5 2003, 12:46 PM
Also bear in mind that if you want a Grammaton Cleric, you need a friendly weaponsmith to make:
1: "Secondary Weapon" club extensions for pistol whipping (see the scene where he's helping out the rebels and takes out six armed cops without firing a shot)
2: Overweighted Clips which can be thrown to land "upright" for later usage (going to get Father...)
You also need to take high Athletics to make use of (2). Unpleasantly restrictive clothing and tacky haircuts are also obligatory. Insanely high edged weapons are also a bonus, for completing the quick course in "Incongruent, anachronistic bushito swordplay."
And you know what? Equilibrium kicks ass for the physad player... great movie.
And something else? I
love DnD...
hobgoblin
Oct 5 2003, 12:49 PM
hey glyph, one could state that one have the gun loaded with blanks and fireing the gun is the action thats fullfills the geasa (and a very nice way to hide a powerbolt to infact)...
Kage2020
Oct 5 2003, 01:19 PM
Yet another question that has probably been asked, but is the 'bow' used on the front of the
Shadowrun Companion significant in some way? That is to ask whether it has game mechanics etc. associated with it, or is it just a rather cool picture somewhat reminiscnet of the
Dungeons & Dragons carton and the 'Ranger'...?
Incidentally, the whole
Equilibrium imagery did a lot for me in terms of 'reinventing' the idea of the physical adept, even though the 'Way of the Gun' is somewhat old to many on these forum. I've always considered the physical adepts represented in the game - frex, the one in SRIII - to be entirely cliched, buying too much into the anachronistic aspects of the game. Bringing the physical adept kicking and screaming, or more aptly,
shooting into the Sixth World.
For the Christian Bale imagery, it seems that Ambidexterity (6 or 8 point version) is necessary. Add in a magical/sensory enhancement to reduce the target number. Increased pistol dice (well, SMG), increased reflexes, blah blah. It's been said before...
Kage
Glyph
Oct 6 2003, 01:26 AM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
hey glyph, one could state that one have the gun loaded with blanks and fireing the gun is the action thats fullfills the geasa (and a very nice way to hide a powerbolt to infact)... |
Yeah, that would be cool. I just consider taking a combat action to fulfill a geas, getting that combat action and the spell/effect, to be cheesy. "Okay, I hit him with the bullet, and my manabolt goes off!" I don't think most GMs would allow that.
Note: I am not implying that the originator of the thread was trying to get that. I was saying that a "gun" geas is something that has to be handled carefully to avoid giving the character a two-for-one attack.
FlakJacket
Oct 6 2003, 01:57 AM
QUOTE (Kage2020) |
I've always considered the physical adepts represented in the game - frex, the one in SRIII - to be entirely cliched, buying too much into the anachronistic aspects of the game. |
Heh. Yeah, doesn't always give out the best of impression if the stock character with the main rules is some meditating philosophy expert that has aboutsolutely no real modern combat skills except for Unarmed combat and hitting people with little sticks. Kind of influences new players thinking at the start.
Zen Shooter01
Oct 6 2003, 03:20 AM
Home rules cook-up I did for gun kata from Equilibrium. Not thoroughly playtested.
A practitioner of gun kata fights with a pistol in each hand. This is a requirement of the style, and therefore makes gun kata an exception to the usual melee rules regarding fighting with two weapons. In other words, there is no Off-Hand Gun Kata skill.
It is possible to attempt Gun Kata with only one pistol, but the user suffers a +2 modifier to his target numbers due to awkwardness.
It is not possible to use Gun Kata without any pistol at all.
A gun kata user inflicts either pistol damage or pistol-whip (club) damage with his weapons on targets in melee; the modifier to using a ranged weapon while in melee does not apply to a user of gun kata. Any Gun Kata damage inflicted in melee, whether pistol or club, is resisted as melee damage.
A gun kata user may also inflict pistol damage on targets out to medium range, but no further. Gun kata is a close-in style.
When inflicting pistol damage, a gun kata user suffers all the usual modifiers for recoil and using a second firearm.
Advantages: When a character uses her gun kata, she gains a number of extra Combat Pool dice equal to half her Gun Kata skill, which can be used only for dodging ranged attacks. These dice remain at her disposal until she uses them or until the next time her combat pool refreshes. A character may only gain these extra dice once in a turn, regardless of the number of Gun Kata skill rolls she makes in that turn.
It is possible to use Gun Kata without making an attack, in order to gain these extra dice.
Disadvantages: The style’s disadvantages are tactical, not procedural. Gun kata requires pistols (and ammunition, unless the pistols are used strictly as clubs), and tends to be very noisy.
Maneuvers: Evasion, Disorient, Blind Fighting, Close Combat, Kip-Up.
Catsnightmare
Oct 6 2003, 07:14 AM
This is what I came up with for a SR Grammaton Cleric physad.
Two levels of initiation, (or more if wanted)
Adept Powers
Increased Reflexes 2 (or higher with additional initiation)
Combat Sense 3
Improved Pistols 2
Improved Clubs 2
Skills
Clubs (Pistols)
Pistols
Edged Weapons (Katana)
Gun Kata/Martial Arts w/maneuvers
- Multi Strike
- Whirling
- Clubs
- Pistols
Probably throw in the Ambidexterity Edge at rating 6 or so too.
Kage2020
Oct 7 2003, 11:25 AM
I'd personally also include a visual enhancement power and, perhaps, something to offset negative modifiers for multiple opponents (erm, maybe not) or, at least, something with regards to flanking/blindsiding/blind-fighting...
Erm...
Kage
Drain Brain
Oct 7 2003, 12:45 PM
If you are looking through this thread and don't know what we're all talking about, try these locations:
Fan SiteVarious Review LinksThe first one is pretty good, offering insight into the movie. I haven't been able to get hold of an
Official site for you though...
Foreigner
Oct 7 2003, 12:52 PM
Arcanum V, Ancient History:
The "Tetragrammaton" is the abbreviation for the two most common names for God in the Hebrew ("Yahweh", abbreviated "YHWH" in the four-letter format) and Latin ("Jehovah" or "Iehovah", abbreviated as "JHVH" or "IHVH" in the same format).
No, I'm not a biblical scholar or divinity student.
I was curious after watching the "Word of God/Name of God" scene in
INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE (Indy {to himself}:"IDIOT! In LATIN, 'Jehovah' begins with an 'I' !"), so I looked it up.
--Foreigner
QUOTE (Arcanum V) |
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Oct 4 2003, 11:07 PM) | "Tetragrammatron" and could you clarify that statement, please? |
No, it's Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton is a compound word formed from the Greek tetra ("four") and gramma ("letters") that specifically designates the name of God as it's expressed in four Hebrew letters: YHVH (Yod He Vav He). It's a good name for a group that is a religously conservative government deeply concerned with words and letters. Linguistically, a "Grammaton Cleric" would be a cleric that has something to do with words, such as protecting them, copying them, or, in this film, destroying them.
|
Ah, ok. Well that makes a bit more sense, then. I guess I don't hate them anymore.
Drain Brain
Oct 7 2003, 08:33 PM
Always preferred the Firemen from "Farenheit 451"
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