A question came up during chargen.
When a hacker (or anyone else) goes into VR hot sim do they need to have a DNI to their comlink (either via an implanted comlink or a datajack)?
Or is it possible to just use either a trode set or a sim rig to access hot VR?
I know that to access cold sim all you need is a trode set, but to access hot sim do you need to go up to another level of interface.
Full Version: Trode sets and Hot Sim VR
Yes, they do need a DNI link with the commlink + sim module (modified for BTL) for hotsim.
Hotsim is hotsim though, through a trod, jack, or implant the commlink DNI link to the meat is (mechanically at least) all the same when it comes to VR performance.
I'd probably surmise that some characters would say that there is a more refined experience doing it with a jack or fully implanted though, but that's the area of Field Commander Fluff than Captain Crunch.
Hotsim is hotsim though, through a trod, jack, or implant the commlink DNI link to the meat is (mechanically at least) all the same when it comes to VR performance.
I'd probably surmise that some characters would say that there is a more refined experience doing it with a jack or fully implanted though, but that's the area of Field Commander Fluff than Captain Crunch.
/seconded
The trode-set provides a DNI, you only need to improve signal power.
No matter whether cold or hot, for VR, a DNI is needed - provided by ither trodes or implants.
The only additional thing needed for hot sim is a modified sim module, so hot sim is perfectly possible with trodes in SR4 - in SR3 it was, too, but with reduced bonuses.
The only additional thing needed for hot sim is a modified sim module, so hot sim is perfectly possible with trodes in SR4 - in SR3 it was, too, but with reduced bonuses.
im guessing that the new nanotech based trodes are more effective at talking to the brain...
| QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 20 2006, 12:39 PM) |
| im guessing that the new nanotech based trodes are more effective at talking to the brain... |
Better DNI? Nah.
Looks good for the fashion conscious clubgoer in need of AR? You betcha.
| QUOTE (DigitalSoul) | ||
Better DNI? Nah. Looks good for the fashion conscious clubgoer in need of AR? You betcha. |
He's referring to the fact that trodes work just as well as datajacks now. The new trodes are more effective than the old.
| QUOTE (Hasaku) | ||||
He's referring to the fact that trodes work just as well as datajacks now. The new trodes are more effective than the old. |
Meh, trode is trode but I thought I saw hobgoblin talking about the nanopaste variety you use for headpaint, not the standard headband/wig/hat concealed trode net.
Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to, Drop Bears, and Postcount++ (for me) I guess.
Well, I'm of the camp that a DNI should be required for hot sim. So keeping that in mind, I'd like to ask a question to those of your who think trodes will do the job.
1) What is the purpose of a datajack? Is there anything that a datajack can do that other non-invasive means can't do?
2) Do you think its a problem that characters can hot sim without an implant? I'm thinking in terms of niche protection here. Ie. the mage who spends a lot of money on high rating programs and uses a trode set to run hot sim without essence loss.
The Horror
1) What is the purpose of a datajack? Is there anything that a datajack can do that other non-invasive means can't do?
2) Do you think its a problem that characters can hot sim without an implant? I'm thinking in terms of niche protection here. Ie. the mage who spends a lot of money on high rating programs and uses a trode set to run hot sim without essence loss.
The Horror
| QUOTE (The Horror @ Feb 21 2006, 02:10 AM) |
| Well, I'm of the camp that a DNI should be required for hot sim. So keeping that in mind, I'd like to ask a question to those of your who think trodes will do the job. 1) What is the purpose of a datajack? Is there anything that a datajack can do that other non-invasive means can't do? 2) Do you think its a problem that characters can hot sim without an implant? I'm thinking in terms of niche protection here. Ie. the mage who spends a lot of money on high rating programs and uses a trode set to run hot sim without essence loss. The Horror |
#1. I have to make some modifications to what I said. First off, let me put these up first for comparison:
| QUOTE (SR4 pg. 318) |
| Trodes: This net/headband of electrodes and ultrasound emitters enables the wearer to experience simsense and are used with a sim module. Trodes are often concealed under headbands, hats, or wigs. |
| QUOTE (SR4 pg. 331) |
| Datajack: A datajack allows a user to directly interface with any electonic device via a fiberoptic cable. Datajacks also allow users to slot and mentally access chips, softs, and BTLs. Datajacks equipped with their own memory storage for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception/eavesdropping. |
Okay, with a trode set I can only receive simsense-translated computer signals but I cannot issue mentally without having gone full VR, I have to take up my hand(s) with either a scroll on the commlink or use AR gloves for typing while in AR otherwise. Now with a datajack my thoughs are translated from me to the machine as well so I can do things like use my smartlink to it's fullest (pop the clip and change modes as a free action through cyber command), communicate silently via text, and do AR stuff hands-free. I also don't have to worry about it being taken, lost, mangled, washed off, or not matching my wardrobe so easily. It's one of the 2 things I miss when I play magically active characters with Sensetive System, the other would be cybereyes.
#2. Hell, if the mage wants to risk BTL addiction, go ahead! Probably a good chance to ding them for taking Scorched or Sensetive Neural Structure as well. He would be safer running AR with mysically augmented reflexes and a set of AR gloves, but then he would miss out on the +2 as well.
Also if he didn't have any karma/BPs to put into Computer/Data Search/Hacking/Cybercombat/Electronic Warfare skills then he's going to get a fair bit of reaming when he has to default (or can't use in the case of Electronic Warfare) with those skills. He's going to get at most 8 dice in hotsim (and that's with novahot, Rating 7 programs), a real hacker can make it by much better with less.
im not entirely sure why you say a trode net is recieve only simsense devices. hell, i would say that if it can do two way communication in VR it can do so in AR to as the only diff is that the latter do not fully override your senses...
Indeed, if the trodes read as well as write (which they do), they can be used for I/O.
and right now RL trodes find it simpler to read then write. i dont think that would change much in SR (but you never know).
allso, you could do cold sim decking with trodes in SR3, so why on earth should you suddenly not be allowed to do cold sim AR in SR4?
allso, you could do cold sim decking with trodes in SR3, so why on earth should you suddenly not be allowed to do cold sim AR in SR4?
| QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 22 2006, 02:44 AM) |
| and right now RL trodes find it simpler to read then write. i dont think that would change much in SR (but you never know). allso, you could do cold sim decking with trodes in SR3, so why on earth should you suddenly not be allowed to do cold sim AR in SR4? |
In RL right now, trodes can't write to the brain at all. They can read, at very poor resolution. Next level up from that is implants under the skull but external to the brain (ie. sitting on top of the brain), and the finest level of resolution is obtained from implants directly into the brain (DNI).
I still can't conceive why anybody would want an invasive datajack if trodes can do the same thing only without the surgery. IMO trodes allow AR and cold sim, but not hot sim (DNI required for hot sim). If it wasn't for previous Shadowrun books I'd go as far as saying trodes only allow reading of brain impulses, with other visual interfaces required for matrix interaction.
Ok, I have a question. I have allways run it that a datajack was all you need to experience simsense. Now under 4ed is says you need a simsense module before you do. Clearly datajacks dont translate simsense anymore. Had anybody done it like that before? Or have I been running it wrong all these many long years?
I beleive, in 3rd, the simsense module was part of your deck.
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