I had some questions about your fixers.
1. What cut does yours take for a job?
2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much?
3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too)
4. Do they charge for information and how much?
Full Version: Fixers
| QUOTE (Cang @ Feb 21 2006, 10:59 AM) |
| I had some questions about your fixers. 1. What cut does yours take for a job? |
I have never had a fixer tell what he charges the Johnson to facilitate the meeting with us, although a 10-20% finders fee is pretty normal.
| QUOTE |
| 2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much? |
Directly, usually no. But there is no free lunch, so that it may be coming out of kickbacks from the friend they hooked me up with. If it is directly related to a job they facilitated then the fixer might consider it part of the services paid for by the finder fee the Johnson paid them.
| QUOTE |
| 3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too) |
Whatever they can get away with. It isn't like they are going to tell me, although they might pretend to tell me.
| QUOTE |
| 4. Do they charge for information and how much? |
If it isn't directly related to a job they facilitated, yes. It depends. At least af few hundred nuyen, maybe thousands if it is difficult or dangerous to come by. Or they charge a favour to be named later, Godfather style.
The way I have played it and have seen it played is that if you have at least an active working relationship with the fixer they likely aren't going to be sending you an invoice everytime you ring them. So even a Loyalty 1 contact that you are giving regular business to is going to let things ebb and flow because he knows he's going to make money on you. A good way to think of it is that the PC is on the Contact list of everyone on the PCs Contact list. Any momentary inequity in helping the other out will usually balance out given time.
| QUOTE (Cang) |
| I had some questions about your fixers. 1. What cut does yours take for a job? 2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much? 3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too) 4. Do they charge for information and how much? |
1. none. We assume that they are paid by the Johnsons to find talent.
2. Depends. Is it a friend of the fixer you mean? Or your characters future friend? I don't get what your saying. Either way, contact upkeep would probably cover this unless it was out of the ordinary then payment would be in order.
3. I thought this was taken into account with street index. If not then 20% would probalby work.
4. Yes and there is no way to gauge the value the information except on the most macro of scales. It's worth however much someone will pay for it and there are very few ways to tell what it's worth to a potential buyer except for obvious things like a prototype or whatnot. Just use common sense.
| QUOTE (Solstice) |
| 3. I thought this was taken into account with street index. If not then 20% would probalby work. |
No street index in SR4. But yeah, ~20% seems right, there are tables near the gear section for adjusting prices to reflect hot goods.
Also, I believe in the contacts section they mentioned a 5% cost per connectivity rating for any favors. So having your connection 4 fixer get you something means he adds 20% to the cost for his troubles. A conenction 6 fixer can cast a much wider net, and is more likely to get the item, and sooner, but wil lcharge +30%
| QUOTE (Cang) |
| I had some questions about your fixers. |
| QUOTE |
| 1. What cut does yours take for a job? |
Depends on how much set up work the fixer does. If they simply pass your name on to a Johnson, the Johnson pays an info fee team pays nothing. If the fixer has to set up the meeting they may take 10-15% If the fixer brokers the whole deal as an intermediary, they may take as much as 25-30%
| QUOTE |
| 2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much? |
Fixers rarely do anything for free, characters usually pay the cost of a meet (dinner, cover charge, etc) plus a fee based on the new contacts connection rating (usually 100
x Connection for my game)| QUOTE |
| 3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too) |
I pretty much use the standard values listed in the book, adjust for any of the factors listed in the street costs table (pg 303 SR4), and add about 10%. The fixer's negotiation test adjusts the 10% up or down.
| QUOTE |
| 4. Do they charge for information and how much? |
Depends on how valuable the information is (usually I base this on the number of hits on the ettiquette test and on the usefullness of the information to the mission at hand) It may range from the price of coffee in to Thousands of Nuyen. I use a similar process for services from contacts, and also adjust for how dangerous to the contact revealing the information or performing the service is. (Having a gang member act as a look out is fairly cheap maybe 25
/ hour, having a judge rig a case in your favor may cost 10-20K)
I also note that, in some games atleast, fixers can be used to 'fix' problems. This is normally in the range of you created a problem for someone and now that someone wants to resolve their issues. The solution is to basically get your fixer to pay off the people you created a problem for or solve the problem in some other way.
An example being:
During a run you killed a Lone Star cop or two. Consequentially Lone Star wants your head. You hire a fixer to deal with this, he pays off the proper contact and Lone Star's problems have magically been absolved, either they simply forgot about it, maybe their records show the case was closed or maybe some bum got arrested. Either way the fixer fixed the problem.
This is, of course, not always involved in game play, but I feel it has been hinted at in a few places. Obviously not all problems can be fixed, but it is a way of getting some heat off of your back.
Again, most games probably don't worry about this but it could be incorporated.
This could also be the foundations for a run in that a fixer is trying to help fix someone elses problem and needs you to help him get something, maybe tickets to a sold out show or something else of value. You could go pretty much anywhere with this idea.
An example being:
During a run you killed a Lone Star cop or two. Consequentially Lone Star wants your head. You hire a fixer to deal with this, he pays off the proper contact and Lone Star's problems have magically been absolved, either they simply forgot about it, maybe their records show the case was closed or maybe some bum got arrested. Either way the fixer fixed the problem.
This is, of course, not always involved in game play, but I feel it has been hinted at in a few places. Obviously not all problems can be fixed, but it is a way of getting some heat off of your back.
Again, most games probably don't worry about this but it could be incorporated.
This could also be the foundations for a run in that a fixer is trying to help fix someone elses problem and needs you to help him get something, maybe tickets to a sold out show or something else of value. You could go pretty much anywhere with this idea.
1. What cut does yours take for a job?
How would we know. Likely substantial, as securing a meet can pay well for us too.
2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much?
Depends on the heat we bring. Also on who is asked. Conflicts of interest have to be compensated.
3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too)
Base price usually includes sufficient profit. In case of bad availability and high must-have-factor up to double base.
4. Do they charge for information and how much?
Again depends. Information may or may not have a market value. Sometimes its just customer service.
How would we know. Likely substantial, as securing a meet can pay well for us too.
2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much?
Depends on the heat we bring. Also on who is asked. Conflicts of interest have to be compensated.
3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too)
Base price usually includes sufficient profit. In case of bad availability and high must-have-factor up to double base.
4. Do they charge for information and how much?
Again depends. Information may or may not have a market value. Sometimes its just customer service.
Information's worth is proportinnal to the price you pay for it. Always.
| QUOTE (KB12) |
| I also note that, in some games atleast, fixers can be used to 'fix' problems. This is normally in the range of you created a problem for someone and now that someone wants to resolve their issues. The solution is to basically get your fixer to pay off the people you created a problem for or solve the problem in some other way. |
Quite novel, as the name is also a tautological definition of what they are. It's why RL fixers are called Fixers in the first place.
| QUOTE |
| 1. What cut does yours take for a job? |
Depends. What did you say his loyalty rating was, again?
| QUOTE |
| 2. Do they charge for hooking you up with a friend and how much? |
Depends. What did you say his loyalty rating was, again?
| QUOTE |
| 3. How much do they charge you over the base price for items (works with fences too) |
Depends. What did you say his loyalty rating was, again?
| QUOTE |
| 4. Do they charge for information and how much? |
Only if you're lucky. If they don't charge you, either they're collecting favors, or... Well, remember, you get what you pay for.
i think your confusing loyalty with price.
"no that's ok chummer, null sheen on the protoype. I don't need to make a living."
Fixers deal primarily in information and information is alwaysworth something to someone and they aren't in the habit of giving money away.
"no that's ok chummer, null sheen on the protoype. I don't need to make a living."
Fixers deal primarily in information and information is alwaysworth something to someone and they aren't in the habit of giving money away.
1) as said above, the runneres generally don't know, but I figure 15% on average.
2) I usually charge a flat 5,000 for a new contact , for level one, then start raising it by higher connection ratings.
3) Street index + negotiation
4)yes, depends on value, unless they hooked up the run in the first place, because the fixer wants the job to be completed to add to his rep in turn, to add to his pocket change.
2) I usually charge a flat 5,000 for a new contact , for level one, then start raising it by higher connection ratings.
3) Street index + negotiation
4)yes, depends on value, unless they hooked up the run in the first place, because the fixer wants the job to be completed to add to his rep in turn, to add to his pocket change.
| QUOTE (Solstice) |
| i think your confusing loyalty with price. "no that's ok chummer, null sheen on the protoype. I don't need to make a living." Fixers deal primarily in information and information is alwaysworth something to someone and they aren't in the habit of giving money away. |
No, I'm not getting confused. They need to make a living either way, but they're not one-customer dealers, either; they'll be far more willing to cut down their profit margin for a lifelong friend who's saved their life multiple times (loyalty=6) than for someone who bought a pistol from them once (loyalty=1). Or, as the book talks about loyalty, they might be willing to "loan" you heavy equipment on spec - something they'd never be willing to do for an average joe.
| QUOTE (neko128) | ||
No, I'm not getting confused. They need to make a living either way, but they're not one-customer dealers, either; they'll be far more willing to cut down their profit margin for a lifelong friend who's saved their life multiple times (loyalty=6) than for someone who bought a pistol from them once (loyalty=1). Or, as the book talks about loyalty, they might be willing to "loan" you heavy equipment on spec - something they'd never be willing to do for an average joe. |
That still doesn't alleviate your statement that information is free. I mean your free to run your game however but that is somewhat ludacris.
| QUOTE (Solstice) |
| That still doesn't alleviate your statement that information is free. I mean your free to run your game however but that is somewhat ludacris. |
When did I say that information is free?
Don't confuse 'doing you a favor' with 'free'. Your fixer won't.
It may be a very small favor, but small favors add up in time.
It may be a very small favor, but small favors add up in time.
| QUOTE (neko128) | ||
When did I say that information is free? |
Well you edited your post so of course your statement is different now.
| QUOTE (Solstice) | ||||
Well you edited your post so of course your statement is different now. |
No, I didn't edit any of my posts in this thread.
If you don't even know what I wrote, you probably shouldn't comment on it.
| QUOTE (neko128) |
| No, I'm not getting confused. They need to make a living either way, but they're not one-customer dealers, either; |
I'll be sure to mention this some people I know who will find that hilarious.
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||
I'll be sure to mention this some people I know who will find that hilarious. |
Why would they find it amusing? The concept that a fixer has more than one customer, or the concept that they have to make a living?
I might be missing something here, but they do have guidelines on how fixers work.
1) In my view, generally the johnson is hiring the fixer to find runners for him. It's a service of the fixer, but Mr. Johnson is requesting it--so the runners usually don't pay anything directly, the fixer negotiates his "cut" (price) with the Johnson ahead of time for arranging the meet.
2) It depends. I wouldn't do a flat fee personally--just eyeball it. If the runner want an intro to random_hacker_00, maybe 500 nuyen. If he wants an intro to a top notch hacker, a lot more.
3) Fixers, when buying and selling, make all the negotiation tests for you (and add their connection + availability of the item) then they take connection x 5% as a commission. Keep in mind if you ever negotiate with your fixer, you add the loyalty rating to your dice pool.
4) Yes, they charge. It depends on how valuable the information is. If you want the skinny on a mob boss, it'll be expensive (if he even knows). Again, I'd just wing it.
1) In my view, generally the johnson is hiring the fixer to find runners for him. It's a service of the fixer, but Mr. Johnson is requesting it--so the runners usually don't pay anything directly, the fixer negotiates his "cut" (price) with the Johnson ahead of time for arranging the meet.
2) It depends. I wouldn't do a flat fee personally--just eyeball it. If the runner want an intro to random_hacker_00, maybe 500 nuyen. If he wants an intro to a top notch hacker, a lot more.
3) Fixers, when buying and selling, make all the negotiation tests for you (and add their connection + availability of the item) then they take connection x 5% as a commission. Keep in mind if you ever negotiate with your fixer, you add the loyalty rating to your dice pool.
4) Yes, they charge. It depends on how valuable the information is. If you want the skinny on a mob boss, it'll be expensive (if he even knows). Again, I'd just wing it.
| QUOTE (neko128 @ Feb 22 2006, 11:18 PM) |
| Why would they find it amusing? The concept that a fixer has more than one customer, or the concept that they have to make a living? |
Don't mind SL James, he is just doing his haughty teenager scorning the lesser folk act.
A fixer can make a living off one customer if that is a customer that can provide regular work and is willing to pay enough to demand no chance of conflict of interest. Anyone that demands absolute loyalty, for example a mafia family. Even a mafia captian can be thought of, in a general sense, as a fixer.
I generally play fixers as having a number of people that they know, a few of which can be assembled into reasonably passable teams, of which the PCs are one. As they get more powerful, they aspire to become "his guys" His go-to best team that get all the choice deals. Sure, there are some fixers out there who have half a dozen (or more) elite teams of shadowrunners, but I'm betting not all are so lucky. (not that they want the runners to find out that they're his only good bet)
It is also a question of aspirations. If you just want a nice comfortable income with nice comfortable headaches you can make a living off handling one good team. Even one elite individual, say a wetworks specialist, could keep a guy busy if you act more like a personal assistant than a manager.
| QUOTE (neko128 @ Feb 22 2006, 10:18 PM) | ||||
Why would they find it amusing? The concept that a fixer has more than one customer, or the concept that they have to make a living? |
Neither. The idea that, "they're not one-customer dealers." That's just not true.
As for my attitude, I figure being a useful, productive member of DS hasn't gotten my anywhere, so I decided to join the legions of useless posters who just spew crap all over the forum. I'll fit right in.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Neither. The idea that, "they're not one-customer dealers." That's just not true. |
Clarification of your argument, complete with tasty references, and not lacking in the canonical department are in order I believe. Otherwise, making statements like "[insert topic] is just not true" is a bit silly.
Then, of course, there's the "IMC" caveat, which makes everything you say true, but only IYC.
Personally, I've seen posts of yours that sit on each side of the fence. We all have them. I do try to keep mine on the relatively useful/productive side though. The dog poops on that side a lot less often.
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