We couldn't find it... does the rulebook cover learning times (i.e. how long it takes to raise an attribute or skill with karma) in any way?
Instruction does mention, that it grants a bonus on the test to learn the skill... what test exactly?
Bye
Thanee
Full Version: Learning Times
On pages 263-264, it mentions that attributes and skills are raised "during down-time", and not during an adventure. It suggests that they should only be able to raise one skill, unless the down-time is more than a month; but other than that, it really doesn't get very specific.
For my own part, I'd say 1-3 weeks is a good ballpark.
As for the "bonus on the test" clause, for example, learning a new spell requires an extended Intuition + Spellcasting (5, 1 day) test (page 172), and learning a new complex form or improving an existing one requires an extended Intuition + Resonance (5, 1 day) test (page 233). The same isn't listed as being required for skills; however, it would be easy to house-rule this to say that learning a new skill (and, optionally, improving it) requires an extended Intuition + Linked Attribute (5, 1 day) test to perform (which, incidentally, would also take care of the "how long does it take" problem).
For my own part, I'd say 1-3 weeks is a good ballpark.
As for the "bonus on the test" clause, for example, learning a new spell requires an extended Intuition + Spellcasting (5, 1 day) test (page 172), and learning a new complex form or improving an existing one requires an extended Intuition + Resonance (5, 1 day) test (page 233). The same isn't listed as being required for skills; however, it would be easy to house-rule this to say that learning a new skill (and, optionally, improving it) requires an extended Intuition + Linked Attribute (5, 1 day) test to perform (which, incidentally, would also take care of the "how long does it take" problem).
It seems the time to improve a skill should increase as the skill level increases. So Intuition + Linked Attribute (1+skill level raised, 1 day), raising pistols 4 to 5 equals (6, 1 day)
I've played quite a lot of White Wolf RPGs, like Vampire and Exalted, and they always had these formulas for training times when increasing anything. They were a huge pain in the ass and just not very fun. I, personally, embrace rules that don't have all that. I like the "raise one thing at a time" rule. It's nice and simple and keeps things under control. Of course, you might prefer other limits, like if a character keeps raising the same characteristic one session after another. Training times are a funny thing. They seem like a good thing to have. They help with realism and creating game balance and all that. But they can also be a big pain in the butt.
| QUOTE (Eryk the Red @ Mar 5 2006, 01:53 PM) |
| I've played quite a lot of White Wolf RPGs, like Vampire and Exalted, and they always had these formulas for training times when increasing anything. They were a huge pain in the ass and just not very fun. I, personally, embrace rules that don't have all that. I like the "raise one thing at a time" rule. It's nice and simple and keeps things under control. Of course, you might prefer other limits, like if a character keeps raising the same characteristic one session after another. Training times are a funny thing. They seem like a good thing to have. They help with realism and creating game balance and all that. But they can also be a big pain in the butt. |
Telling Realism to bite the trouser cobra on this subject is my vote too. I went down that road too a couple times and in my experience I find it quickly becomes an excersize in mucking about with things that tangental at most to the game being played.
Yeah, that's probably right.
I was just wondering, since there didn't seem to be any rules about it, yet they were referenced under the Instruction skill guidelines.
Bye
Thanee
I was just wondering, since there didn't seem to be any rules about it, yet they were referenced under the Instruction skill guidelines.
Bye
Thanee
Instruction is strange anyway, as they still require two hits per additional die.
Yep, that seems a bit harsh. One die per hit would probably be reasonable.
Bye
Thanee
Bye
Thanee
| QUOTE (Dv84good) |
| It seems the time to improve a skill should increase as the skill level increases. So Intuition + Linked Attribute (1+skill level raised, 1 day), raising pistols 4 to 5 equals (6, 1 day) |
To go from being excellent at shooting a pistol to world class in probably less than 6 days is pretty quick. Maybe it should be linked to the karma cost to raise or the time period should be greater, like one week. The threshold should be pretty high considering that they will probably be getting multiple hits each time they make a test, even if they doesn't have an instructor.
It may also make more sense to have this be an exponential or quadratic process instead of linear.
I agree with Eryk the Red and others that training time is a big waste of time. Ruling that it takes x number of hours or days to raise a skill just creates a lot of totally unfun bookkeeping, and the inevitable PC who says, "I don't go on the run, I stay home and practice my Gymnastics."
I personally keep a rein on how much karma I give out, and only let the PCs raise any particular thing 1 point per session. It works very well for me.
I personally keep a rein on how much karma I give out, and only let the PCs raise any particular thing 1 point per session. It works very well for me.
I'm at work, book's at home, but IIRC...
The "one at a time" thing is for learning a NEW skill. You can spend karma to raise skills you already have, or attributes, at any time.
The "one at a time" thing is for learning a NEW skill. You can spend karma to raise skills you already have, or attributes, at any time.
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