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Mr.Platinum
As you see in the title, i just want to know when Beta was a common street item?

I should rephrase, what year was this more common on the streets? 205?
Platinum
What do you mean by common? Most people do not/cannot afford this, as this is custom work. Betaware first came out in the Street Samurai's Catalog, which was dated as 2050. the Cybertechnology sourcebook dated 2056 introduced delta and gave more rules for finding/using beta grade, (which I think allowed beta to be taken at this point)
Mr.Platinum
Hmmmm, by common i mean.......or i should say, when was it more easily purchased by those with the cash.
Platinum
read page 10 of man and machine (2061)
Mr.Platinum
O-tay. **grabs M&M.
Mr.Platinum
does'nt help, i'm looking for specific dates. but hey thanks anyways.
tisoz
June 25th, 2042, approximately 0801 EST. wink.gif
Platinum
Well, there aren't really any specific dates. 2050, betaware gets introduced, mainly for special corp types, 2056 they have refined the process and come up with delta grade, at this point you can buy alpha at chargen, by 2061 you can get beta at chargen. I would still say that 99.99 percent of people get the regular grade. (then again a shadorunner is supposed to be 1 in a million, so I guess it would be common place in the shadows by at least 2061)
Mr.Platinum
QUOTE (tisoz)
June 25th, 2042, approximately 0801 EST. wink.gif

Ha thats good. Thanks guys, I can't find any of my 2nd edition stuff. all i have is this giant pile of 3rd and a tiny pile of 4th
MK Ultra
QUOTE (Platinum)
... then again a shadorunner is supposed to be 1 in a million ...

eek.gif Uh, what?!? So there are only about 6 shadowrunners in all of seattle!?! Man, I made a huge GM-mistake all of the years!!! biggrin.gif
Platinum
Well first edition was 2050, second was 2053, third was 2060, fourth 2070

In most of the campaigns I played until 2057 betaware still took some serious effort. It meant getting into some kind of underground clinic and owing someone a favor, or some kind of payment for a run. Most of the stuff that you really want to get beta anyhow is military grade, and really hard to get on the street. In the 3rd edition ruleset it only talks about alphagrade cyberware which suggests that it is more popular by that point in time. Since beta is really about tailoring the cyberware rather than just installing better quality, I would say that it is still not common place. sr3 BBB 297.
Platinum
QUOTE (MK Ultra)
QUOTE (Platinum @ Mar 4 2006, 08:28 PM)
... then again a shadorunner is supposed to be 1 in a million ...

eek.gif Uh, what?!? So there are only about 6 shadowrunners in all of seattle!?! Man, I made a huge GM-mistake all of the years!!! biggrin.gif

You probably were making huge mistakes....grinbig.gif but "one in a million" is a term and not a literal figure.
Teulisch
with beta-ware, your starting to have parts custom-made for you specificaly. Its probably the same overall quality as alpha-ware, but alpha is off-the-shelf mass-produced stuff. So instead of needing part X, the beta clinic has to take a look at you, and custom-modify the necesary parts into the cyber you want, and then install it.

Its not common at all. Generaly, black clinics able to do that kind of customization are going to be rare and expensive. but they will exist, probably at the high end of organized crime (mafia, yakuza, triad). you need some very good contacts to acess this stuff.

availibility is based mostly on facilities and doctors. some parts will still be harder to get than others of course.
Shrike30
I always imagined places like Gibson's Chiba to be the havens of Beta-ware (and maybe a hidden, "go away, we don't know you" delta clinic). By SR4, you can find it on the street, but the main thing that's holding it back is cost (you gotta fly to Chiba or wherever, get it implanted by someone you only know because your fixer hooked you up, and it's 4x as expensive with no increase in effectiveness, just reduced esesnce cost).

Delta is still way beyond the reach of all but the favored few.
Trax
It took me 10 minutes to realize you meant China, and not a store called Gibson's Chiba.

"Fly to Chiba? Wtf is he talking about?"
stevebugge
I think he did mean Chiba, a part of the Tokyo Sprawl IIRC
Brahm
QUOTE (Trax)
It took me 10 minutes to realize you meant China, and not a store called Gibson's Chiba.

"Fly to Chiba? Wtf is he talking about?"

Mel Gibson wrote a book, yeah that's the ticket, in which Chiba outside of Tokyo was a hotbed of highend implants.


Almost not spreading misinformation since 1951.
Shrike30
*cracks up* Steve's got it right... I'm talking about Chiba City, right outside Tokyo. William Gibson (and therefore Shadowrun) mention it occasionally as the place for ware.
Trax
Ok, that makes sense. I was wondering why the hell would China have good cyber. nyahnyah.gif
Wounded Ronin
It has dangerous Norinco knockoff cyberwear that expodes when it gets punched.
Brahm
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Mar 6 2006, 08:41 PM)
It has dangerous Norinco knockoff cyberwear that expodes when it gets punched.

I once had a fixer that sold my character Russian military surplus cybereyes. Yes, I should have known better. But cyberware is so damn expensive under SR3. No way I was going to afford new.

Going blind is a serious hassle. Randomly going blind for sporatic lengths of time is psychologically painful. frown.gif
The-Mighty-Buddha
In my games ive gone with the 2057 as when it became a bit more rare then chickens teeth (which are now the equivalent of delta ware, also certain corps can get you chickens teeth on the down low..*wink wink nudge nudge*).

A bit off topic, anyone run into people wanting second hand alpha and betaware? I personally smack the player and chain them to the radiator for thinking such. How should i change my approach?

[Edit] Possibly without the radiator?


Behold the Return.
DigitalSoul
Well if the player wants second hand betawear...give it to them. Now as this was formerly someone else's betawear it was made to the previous owner's specifications it would probably be worse for the player than buying standared used cyber (It's not just seen wear and tear, but the interface is at odds with the character as well making for some extra defects).

I can see alphawear though being second hand, it's still 1-size-fits-almost-all cyber, just made with higher grade components.
The-Mighty-Buddha
Hmm excellent point. Ive got enough problems wrangling 3 noobies to bother with stress and such. Getting the damn decking rules set has been hell.
eidolon
I believe that the rules state that used beta and better can be implanted, but will only ever count as alpha for the character receiving it.

Fluff wise, it's to reflect the fact that parts of it are vat-grown specifically for the original implant recipient, and therefore it doesn't function at top capability for anyone else.

Mechanics wise, it's to answer the "what to do when the players kill the badass that had betaware, and they want to harvest it and have it implanted" question.

Personally, I ignore the penalty. I just require them to take the beta/whatever to a doc/clinic that can remove the organic parts from the cyber, take samples from the character, and regrow it to be implanted in them. But that's just my house rule.
Shockwave_IIc
QUOTE (eidolon)
I believe that the rules state that used beta and better can be implanted, but will only ever count as alpha for the character receiving it.

Almost correct.

Deltaware is built for one person only, and when you rip it out of his smouldering corpse. To you it counts as Beta.

Beta, Alpha and high street cyberware by rules fits everyone equally.

An Analagy i once heard.

High Street cyber is like a computer thats been slapped together, hey it works (most of the time) but the software drivers don't like each other of the OS is glitchy (XP wobble.gif )

Alpha, well someone actually put some thought into building this one. Systems work fine, and it's not going to need an upgrade when the next Unreal Tournment comes out.

Beta. You brought the parts separate, was built by someone that knows what they are doing, the OS is steamed down to just what your needing and the Processor and RAM are well above what any stand alone would need, heck, it's better then most servers.

Delta, you running with hardware that won't be on the consumer marking for over 10 years, and the software is completely custom.
eidolon
I figured I might be off by a little bit. As I said, I ignore it and do my own thing anyway. smile.gif
Mr.Platinum
Wow, you guys are liek the creamy filling in all my Sr books, great flavor/
Birdy
QUOTE (Platinum)
Well first edition was 2050, second was 2053, third was 2060, fourth 2070

In most of the campaigns I played until 2057 betaware still took some serious effort. It meant getting into some kind of underground clinic and owing someone a favor, or some kind of payment for a run. Most of the stuff that you really want to get beta anyhow is military grade, and really hard to get on the street. In the 3rd edition ruleset it only talks about alphagrade cyberware which suggests that it is more popular by that point in time. Since beta is really about tailoring the cyberware rather than just installing better quality, I would say that it is still not common place. sr3 BBB 297.

Actually Betaware makes a lot of sense outside the military stuff. At least if you do not want to play the n+1 "my body is pure" elven shaman but a human hermetic with some cyber like eyes, ears or skillwire.

Giving up 2 points of magic for Betaware makes for an interesting char.
Voran
QUOTE (Brahm)
QUOTE (Trax @ Mar 6 2006, 04:57 PM)
It took me 10 minutes to realize you meant China, and not a store called Gibson's Chiba.

"Fly to Chiba? Wtf is he talking about?"

Mel Gibson wrote a book, yeah that's the ticket, in which Chiba outside of Tokyo was a hotbed of highend implants.


Almost not spreading misinformation since 1951.

No no. It was Debbie Gibson who wrote it.
Kremlin KOA
QUOTE (Mr.Platinum)
Wow, you guys are liek the creamy filling in all my Sr books, great flavor/

you've been looking at the lesbian elf page again, haven't you?
Link
t-he

QUOTE
the Cybertechnology sourcebook dated 2056 introduced delta


Just to be clear, delta-ware was introduced in the Street Samurai Guide (2050) while Cybertechnology expanded it.
Pendaric
A little of topic but I have instigated a house rule that drastically reduces cyberlimbs and their enhancement costs. Even at half the cost for the limb and the enhancements above 10k thats still eleven ford americars for my sam's arm. I rather give my players less cred and lower the cost than give them more cred to compensate for equipment. They will stay in low lifestyles and like it biggrin.gif
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