The control mind spell takes a complex action to cast, and a simple action to give them an order. When you cast it, do you get to "convey" an order with it, or do you have to wait until your next simple action to do something?

In an example combat from earlier tonight, this came up: the cat shaman had an initiative of 9, a gang member had an initiative of 4. She cast Control Mind on him, got two net successes. What happens in initiative 4? Does he take his own action (since she hasn't had a chance to send a command yet), follow her command (which she hasn't had a simple action to convey yet), or just stand there feeling dumb?

Also, does that mean you can manipulate their memories or make them think different things while they think they're still in charge of their minds?

you definitely can't control their memories. there is a separate spell explicitly for that purpose.

so far as i can tell, no order is conveyed along with the spell.

my personal opinion is that the ganger would just stand there waiting for an order, as he is no longer under his own power, but hasn't been given an order yet.

i have, however, seen the interpretation that he acts as normal until given an order. i personally don't like it, and don't use it, but can't really dispute it's validity in any way. my method is really more along the lines of "this is how *I* want it to work, so that's how *I* handle it."

as such, it may not work for your games.

Nevermind, realized you meant Control Thoughts and not Control Mind. Anway, the quote I posted previously might still apply:

The mind control spells are so over powered that I would let the target act of their own will till the mage can give an order. Maybe they get an action to go "oh S***" and try to grease the mage may be they don't.

Control actions is a spell that focuses on the body - if you don't 'pull the strings' they can act of their own according if you're not giving orders.

Control Thoughts, on the other hand, specifically seizes control of the mind, giving you complete control of the said person (as it more or less states).

The only trick here is whether or not that's literal or flavor text, as it'd be nothing more than a mop up control actions if people got free moves when you told them nothing. If it keeps them still while you're holding them, it explains its increased drain over Control actions

I always thought that under the influence of Control Thoughts the target does not realize that it is being controled.

Nope, they're quite aware it's going on, though in a sense they feel out the thoughts, then resume their own in a sense. They just lose all control of their ability to act.

Or something like that, lol. It doesn't matter. They will know you did something, although it might be hazy. THe fact that all people constantly resist the effect, and can sometimes get extra with extreme actions, shows it's not complete control. Only someone with 0 willpower will be a complete slave.

My understanding was that:

Control Actions, you're actually moving their body around, which they're actually resisting. Hence, they suffer a penalty to everything they do and know what's going on.

Control Thoughts, you're controlling their mind. They resist the control itself, but it's complete. They don't know that they're being controlled, unless you give them the thought. When they do finally break it, they might kinda go "Huh, I don't remember shooting those three Lone Star officers dead..." but they don't explicitly know what/who.

Influence, is the Jedi mind trick. They don't know they've been controlled and anything they do, they do on their own. It will be "their" idea to do whatever.

Calypso