How does analyze spell work in your game?
What can the analyze device spell be applied to?
Full Version: Analyze Device
| QUOTE (tisoz @ cross-thread highjack avoidance) |
| I put a disclaimer on that specific use as pushing the limits when I proposed it. However, I'll propose an analogy. Imagine the Star Trek away team finds an artifact in an ancient temple That turns out to be dual natured. When they try to leave, a force field (astral barrier/ward). They whip out their tricorder (Analyze Device Spell) and see how they can align <insert technobabel here> to get the artifact through the barrier without the barrier self destructing the temple if destroyed. |
Another analogy. I use the Analyze Device spell to analyze the air, OR 1. Presto, a bonus to everything I do while breathing!
Flexibility towards a more playable, sane game good. Flexibility towards pervese results bad.
Which brings us back to the root which is that you seem to think that Analyze Device needs a huge number of hits to be useful, and that that is a patently bad thing, which is why you take that questionable interpretation to be nessasary.
Could you go through your numbers again as to why you think they are nessasary?
Say you want to open a maglock or use a medkit, maybe even shoot a gun. The threshold is 4+, lets say 4. You need 5 hits to have an effect, which also requires a F5 Spell. If you plan on using it on yourself instead of just giving your buddy 1 extra die, that means a F5 sustaining foci, or some other means of sustaining that does not impose a -2 modifier.
If you aren't going to invest 3 BP or 5 karma for the spell plus 50,000
and 10 karma for a sustaining focus for a one die modifier, then the force of the spell needs to be higher. So you pretty much need at least F7 to make it worth while. At this point, you are probably overcasting, so why not go Force 9 or 10? The benefit outweighs the incremental drain.
Even at the lower threshold for more natural items, there is a threshold of 1 or 2. So self sustaining, you need a F5 (Threshold 2+2 sust mod +1 to have any effect). The silly part is most natural or lightly refined items are magic items, and it gets silly because these magic items are usually conferring their own bonus. I really do not see why they should be exempt from the benefits of the spell, other than wanting game balance.
If you aren't going to invest 3 BP or 5 karma for the spell plus 50,000
and 10 karma for a sustaining focus for a one die modifier, then the force of the spell needs to be higher. So you pretty much need at least F7 to make it worth while. At this point, you are probably overcasting, so why not go Force 9 or 10? The benefit outweighs the incremental drain.Even at the lower threshold for more natural items, there is a threshold of 1 or 2. So self sustaining, you need a F5 (Threshold 2+2 sust mod +1 to have any effect). The silly part is most natural or lightly refined items are magic items, and it gets silly because these magic items are usually conferring their own bonus. I really do not see why they should be exempt from the benefits of the spell, other than wanting game balance.
| QUOTE (tisoz @ Mar 8 2006, 09:51 AM) |
| Say you want to open a maglock or use a medkit, maybe even shoot a gun. The threshold is 4+, lets say 4. |
That's part of the problem there. Many instances of those will match better to Threshhold 3.
| QUOTE |
| Manufactured High-Tech Objects and Materials (Advanced Plastics, Alloys, Electronic Equipment) |
Because basicly all electronic equipment is assumed to have a digital processor aspect it for wireless Matrix it seems reasonable to take the computer of the Threshhold of 4 to relate more to items with large processing capabilities where the processing capabilites are the main functionality of the item. An extreme example of this is a simple plastic mallet. Threshold 2, right? But it is nearly a lock that when you buy it, like all consumer products, it has an RFID or 6 embedded in for inventory and tracking. If these RFIDs aren't removed, not just nuetered with a Tag Eraser, would you bump the Analyze Device OR up to 4?
The confusion is very understandable. They would have done well to include explicit examples for each of these threshholds, and what constitutes a Threshhold above 4. Setting Object Resistance certainly an messy judgement call area. I hope Fanpro provides something like a sidebar in Street Magic to help with categorizing ORs.
There are also the Threshhold 2 items. If they are made of appropriate materials weapons like bows, and athletic related items like parachutes can fall under that.
The only possible Threshold 1 that comes to my mind is a tree limb used as a club.
| QUOTE |
| If you plan on using it on yourself instead of just giving your buddy 1 extra die, that means a F5 sustaining foci, or some other means of sustaining that does not impose a -2 modifier. |
Yes. Although a sustaining focus can help with personal use, and Hermetics especially can get synergys working with most Logic Skills, Analyze Device is primarily a team orientated spell. For example a mage with a specialized dice pool, or a solid dice pool spending Edge coupled with a high reaction teammate translates to a wheelman that is moderately competent piloting any vehicle. Team that mage with an already competent driver and you lift that driver up to the next level.
| QUOTE |
| The silly part is most natural or lightly refined items are magic items, and it gets silly because these magic items are usually conferring their own bonus. |
It is likely best to set aside the composition of foci because I think that is a deadend. The physical aspects of the foci very widely, and there there is the wierdness of their construction techniques. This isn't really covered in SR4 in the BBB, so covering that whole thing should likely wait until Street Magic.
However I think it is important that Analyze Device is one of only two Physical Detection spell, the other is Detect [Object]. This is likely the biggest legalese issue to trying to use it on a Ward or even a foci. It seems that the part of the foci that does the work is it's astral side that shows when the foci is activated, and it works on/through/with mana.
Now about the Force it self. Drain from the spell really isn't much of an issue. Up to Force 5 really isn't a problem with drain as that is only 2 boxes and for many mages is still Stun. Even up to Force 7, 3 boxes, a just a decent starting mage with no foci will reduce that to no boxes about 2/3's of the time.
So the tough part is getting the hits. Let us look at the odds for hits achieved versus dice in a normal pool. http://www.geocities.com/dontemailmyass/SR4EOdds.xls
Here we see that about 12 dice will get us. A caster with Magic 5, Spellcasting 4, and a Force 2 Spellcasting focus is only going to get 5 hits about 1 in 5 castings. The same mage with a total of 10 dice for resisting drain will take a box of drain about 1 in 6 times. This represents a fairly decent generalized starting mage. So they are likely going to be using Edge when dealing with OR 4 items, and likely concentrate the use of Analyze Device on the lower Threshold items. Personal verus team use is going to be rare.
However a healthy mage with Magic 7, Spellcasting 6, Force 4 Spellcasting focus, and the Centering metamagic is going to be comfortable with aiding the team wheelman and aiding himself with the lower Threshold. He might even be able to provide himself a net bonus with a vehicle like a bicycle or with a firearm if he uses Edge. Especially if he normally would be Defaulting because he only needs 2 hits above the Threshold to give a gain after factoring in the -2 die penalty for sustaining a spell.
And like I said, summoning a spirit of man to cast it is going to alleviate a bunch of problems.
Also, since there has been the topic of dual wielding, this is a spell that should give a bonus to each weapon/device. Since the Analyze Device bonus should apply wholey to each weapon, it is great for this use, especially since targetting systems will not apply.
Also, since there has been the topic of dual wielding, this is a spell that should give a bonus to each weapon/device. Since the Analyze Device bonus should apply wholey to each weapon, it is great for this use, especially since targetting systems will not apply.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.