So, I'm playing a mage/hacker in an SR4 game. Basically, he's a Manipulation focused hermetic mage that makes extensive use of Shapechange. He also has an implanted, hot-sim modified commlink.
Now, assuming that it has already been ruled that I can use my commlink while Shapechanged (which it has), what can I do while shapechanged?
Can I...
"Speak" over the commlink
Send text messages
See AR
Interact with AR
Go cold/hot VR
Anything else I forgot
I'm not trying to make this a leading question. I'm just curious what you all think. My GM and I are trying to come up with a logical set of limitations.
Calypso
Full Version: Shapechange + Commlink = ?
No to all. Your comlink doesn't exist when shapechanged. Cyberware is transformed along with everything else. You could use one through trodes, of course.
In order to access the matrix withile shapechanged you'll either need to use trodes or shapechange into a mundane critter that naturally has technomantic abilities.
In order to access the matrix withile shapechanged you'll either need to use trodes or shapechange into a mundane critter that naturally has technomantic abilities.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Mar 13 2006, 01:31 PM) |
| No to all. Your comlink doesn't exist when shapechanged. Cyberware is transformed along with everything else. You could use one through trodes, of course. In order to access the matrix withile shapechanged you'll either need to use trodes or shapechange into a mundane critter that naturally has technomantic abilities. |
Except, I said assume that I can use my commlink while shapechanged, which I can. Call it a house-rule if you want, but it's a fact.
If you're working within a house rule, just talk to your GM for clarification. Barring that, if the house rule says you can use the commlink while shapechanged, then as long as you could do those things while not shapechanged, I don't see why you couldn't while you were. As a GM myself, I'd hesitate to allow the original house rule, that the commlink could be used while shapechanged, but that's not the issue at hand.
| QUOTE (calypso @ Mar 13 2006, 02:40 PM) |
| Except, I said assume that I can use my commlink while shapechanged, which I can. |
Then you've answered your own question.
| QUOTE (Azralon @ Mar 13 2006, 09:11 PM) |
Then you've answered your own question. |
Only partially.
Can I "vocalize" over my commlink without being able to speak? Can I interact with AR without hands? Do I lose concentration for Shapechange if I go VR?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Calypso
Well, the rules give no other instances of having sustained spells broken when going full VR, so I don't think that you'd break your shapechange. Since you are interacting with your comlink though a DNI, you don't need to actuall speak or twitch your tail or whatever to provide info to your comlink, just think about talking and then have your comlink send an IM to your team mates.
Operating within the house rule that you can use the commlink while shapechanged, you should have access to each and all of those actions that you listed.
Does it require the use of a houserule for cyber to be usable by the magician while he's shapechanged? I was under the impression that we were already sort of "forum decided" that cyberwear came along with you for the ride.
Does it require the use of a houserule for cyber to be usable by the magician while he's shapechanged? I was under the impression that we were already sort of "forum decided" that cyberwear came along with you for the ride.
You might have difficulty staying shape changed in full VR if you were sustaining the spell before you went in. If on the other hand it was in a focus or a spirit were sustaining it you should be okay.
I don't think it'd be a house rule to use it. In SR4 anything you pay essence for is fully useable for magic. Since mages are now allowed to use cybereyes to target spells I'd say they can use commlinks. Unless of course you stick the commlink in a cyberlimb (in which case you didn't use essence).
BTW this rule creates some really nasty shapechangers. Mage with synaptic accelerators shape changed into a dog, wolf, or bear. You'd have 3 passes and +2 to all your physical attributes (if you buy successes and round down).
I don't think it'd be a house rule to use it. In SR4 anything you pay essence for is fully useable for magic. Since mages are now allowed to use cybereyes to target spells I'd say they can use commlinks. Unless of course you stick the commlink in a cyberlimb (in which case you didn't use essence).
BTW this rule creates some really nasty shapechangers. Mage with synaptic accelerators shape changed into a dog, wolf, or bear. You'd have 3 passes and +2 to all your physical attributes (if you buy successes and round down).
| QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Mar 14 2006, 01:22 PM) |
| Operating within the house rule that you can use the commlink while shapechanged, you should have access to each and all of those actions that you listed. Does it require the use of a houserule for cyber to be usable by the magician while he's shapechanged? I was under the impression that we were already sort of "forum decided" that cyberwear came along with you for the ride. |
I thought it was that it comes along for the ride, but is not usable or physically detectable because it is converted into the flesh of new form? Or is that what you mean?
If it wasn't and you had a cyberarm and shapechanged to an Eagle.....well it would be a bad thing. Same thing with a commlink, eyewear, or headware that didn't fit the size or shape of the new form.
I figured that it either disappeared, or changed to fit the shape of the form. That eagle would have a cyberwing.
| QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Mar 14 2006, 03:01 PM) |
| I figured that it either disappeared, or changed to fit the shape of the form. That eagle would have a cyberwing. |
That is where computers would get very weird getting compressed even tighter than their already near quatum state. I say physically compressed because, although it isn't in SR4 rules yet, SR traditionally has distortions of time and space as magic no-nos. So the already highly compressed digital headware will need to be compressed even more to fit in my poor Eagles tiny bird brain.
I figure it's that, or shapechanging can result in your cybereye crushing your skull. I think I'll stick with it either phasing out of existence or morphing along with you.
| QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Mar 14 2006, 03:24 PM) |
| I figure it's that, or shapechanging can result in your cybereye crushing your skull. I think I'll stick with it either phasing out of existence or morphing along with you. |
The potential of surgical artificial skull replacement squishing a Shapeshifter's brain if they try to shift (not the spell, the power) is something that was in SR3 fluff as a shadow rumor. I forget where it was, it might have been Critters.
| QUOTE (calypso) |
| Can I "vocalize" over my commlink without being able to speak? |
If you're capable of using your implanted commlink while shapeshifted (which is dubious for reasons expressed above), then I don't see why not.
| QUOTE (calypso) |
| Can I interact with AR without hands? |
You were told that you could use your commlink while shapeshifted. This implies that you can use AR and VR via your DNI.
| QUOTE (calypso) |
| Do I lose concentration for Shapechange if I go VR? |
If you can possibly lose concentration from taking damage, going full defense, or dropping prone then you would probably also lose concentration from having your senses completely overridden and your body going slack.
Cheops, as the GM in question I would like it if you could further clarify your point. Does it say somewhere in the book that things you pay for with essence are usable with magic (page number?)? If it does then most of the issues we are dealing with go away. I will check on the rules for sustaining spells, though, to see what Matrix actions might cause a loss of concentration.
BTW the reason I am allowing this rule is because the character idea is extremely interesting and I don't see this use of a commlink and spell as particularly overpowering. The character in question is not a terribly good mage, nor a terribly good hacker, but has some interesting capabilities of each.
We have also house ruled shapechange to have a threshold equal to the absolute difference between the caster and alternate form's body, with extra successes added to physical attributes like normal. This generally means that while this character (body 5) can change into a small snake or rat (body 1), he needs 4 successes on the spellcasting test just to get the base stats. I think it kind of evens out the combat potential vs. stealth potential of the various forms. It also makes turning into something huge not nearly as good because of the difference in body stats.
BTW the reason I am allowing this rule is because the character idea is extremely interesting and I don't see this use of a commlink and spell as particularly overpowering. The character in question is not a terribly good mage, nor a terribly good hacker, but has some interesting capabilities of each.
We have also house ruled shapechange to have a threshold equal to the absolute difference between the caster and alternate form's body, with extra successes added to physical attributes like normal. This generally means that while this character (body 5) can change into a small snake or rat (body 1), he needs 4 successes on the spellcasting test just to get the base stats. I think it kind of evens out the combat potential vs. stealth potential of the various forms. It also makes turning into something huge not nearly as good because of the difference in body stats.
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