Funny, that's the second thing that came to my mind (using this spell to harvest cyberware). Horrific, horrific idea, but... Well, apparently effective.

I'm looking at this spell, and thinking more and more like it should have a higher drain.

This is the most important point that everyone seems to be missing about this spell. The "goo" is still "solid". You cannot simply "reach in" and extract the cyberware. I'm reading it that even cyberware on the "surface" (eyes for instance) is still "stuck" to the goo and cannot simply be pulled off (or out). Just like SR3 Petrify, any damage done to the Goo translates into damage done to the person. Thus, to remove that internal headware memory from the Goo you would need to cut into the Goo sufficiently deep enough to get it out, in the process, causing as much damage as if the poor slot was in his metahuman form. It is not an attack and "instant death" spell. Otherwise it would probably be in the Combat Spells section.

The real use of the spell, as I see it, is transportation, as Dashifen mentions. Have to do an extraction? Goo-ify your target then stuff him in a cooler or backpack or something and walk out with him. Or, Goo-ify your team's PhysAd then "flush" him into the target facility and then release the spell when he's on the other side.

I never saw you being able to simply rip someone apart with this spell.

That'd be fun. Stuck inside a 55-galon drum while the truck passes through a ward...ewwww.

I'm not missing the point. However, okay, Body + net hits for an average person is 4 - the barrier armor rating of a tree, or normal furniture. While that's certainly going to be difficult to pull apart by hand for another average person, a random troll or someone with a monosword should have little to no trouble.

Even your average street sam wouldn't be that much of an issue. Body 4-5 plus 1-2 net hits? Armor 6 is hardwood or a standard chain link. Again, people have been doing carpentry for years, and bolt-cutters are a nuyen a dozen...

Roughly the same trouble as dismembering a regular corpse. If the mage can safely sustain till they get the victim to a chopshop why bother risk damaging the equipment? If not kill him and cut off the interesting bits as per normal. Turn To Goo doesn't really change that, and is more risky than Stun Bolt because not only do you have to sustain it but you also have to correctly guess the Body of the victim before you cast.

Or Assense.

This is actually an old topic. Whip up an applicable spirit and use a Search service.

Note that the barrier rating of the goo is equivalent to the barrier rating created by Turn to Stone for sake of comparison. That is to say, it's just as hard to chip it out of rock as it would be to pull it out of supersticky gunk.

Brahm is wise here; TtG doesn't make your victim into pliable Jell-O with cyberware floating around in it to be plucked out as easily as decorative fruit. Just save yourself the drain and use the Impromptu Troll Uninstallation method if you really want that guy's cyberarm.

ROFLLMAO

Determining Body or other Physical Attributes isn't on the Assensing table, but slotting it at Theshold 4 to know the exact number, and Threshold 3 to know roughly isn't that bad an idea I suppose. You might also let they try a Medicine Test, but few runners are going to have that.

Huh. I admit I didn't look it up, but I said that because I thought I specifically remembered 3 or 4 successes having "exact physical attributes" mentioned.

What it does have for Threshold 4 is Th e exact Essence, Magic and Force of the subject. Threshold 3 gives you a higher/lower indication of the same. For spirits you can work out the Physical Attributes from that, but leaves you in the dark on everyone else and I don't expect Turn to Goo to work that well on a spirit. Though I guess I never really considered it before.

I'd be okay with it.

I don't believe that unconsciousness disrupts a spirit; it actually needs to be "killed" to be disrupted. At least, that's why my mage prefers to KO patrol spirits since it nullifies them without alerting their summoners.

It couldn't be turned to goo on the astral plane, as TtG is a Physical spell so wouldn't work on purely astral targets.

How do you KO a spirit? Does it have to be Manifested so you can do Stun damage?

Oh wait, I think I remember reading that in Astral Combat a Magician can choose to do Stun damage, so I suppose that could be done. Very interesting.

The wording unfortunately suggests that there's just one Condition Monitor Track. This is not the case (unless spirits don't have separate CMTs, but I haven't seen anything to that effect), so some assumptions have to be made.

We assumed that the wording meant to say "a spirit's Physical Condition Monitor Track." That would mean you could KO a spirit by filling up its Stun Track. The spirit won't actually go away until it's "killed." This is how we've been playing.

It could be just as likely that the wording meant to say "either of a spirit's Condition Monitor Tracks" or "on one of a spirit's Condition Monitor Tracks" or even "a spirit’s Physical or Stun Condition Monitor Track." Those would be bigger alterations to the printed text, so we assumed they weren't the case. It could be, mind you, but we're assuming not.

Personally I'd be happier if all spirits had just one generic damage track (equal to 8+half Force), as it would make the damn things more vulnerable. I'd also be conceptually okay with the idea that spirits don't differientiate between Stun and Physical damage and both go into the same track.

But anyway, that's where I'm at.

Just use the NPC Grunt rule on them to give them a single track. Unconcious or disrupted they are bye-bye for that combat. To make it easier just use 8+Force/2 to determine the size of the track since their Body is only there sometimes.

As for Turn To Goo disrupting, the spell doesn't really say it fills up the condition track. Even if the track changes length, which can happen via a buff/debuff spell, the spirit can't pop back up so it isn't really doing boxes of damage.

Right, and that'd be an elegant solution in most cases. However, if you're trying to bypass a spirit without its summoner knowing about it, there'd still need to be a distinction between "unconscious" and "disrupted." If spirits aren't supposed to make that distinction then there's no problem.

I do like treating them as grunts, though. I wish we could extend that paradigm and deny them their own bucket of Edge.

Aye, it says the subject is unconscious. Which brings us back to "can spirits go unconscious" and "if spirits go unconscious, are they disrupted?"

It gets further complicated because the text says spirits are disrupted when a/the condition monitor fills up. As you pointed out, Turn to Goo doesn't touch the damage track, so that suggests the spirit wouldn't disrupt.

~~~~~

I feel like a rules lawyer even talking about this, but it's not so much that I'm looking for a loophole as desperately seeking the absence of one.

I thought they were, it was just that they paid zero essense because it was a Plot Device.

Right, because if a cortex bomb cost Essence then it'd be more noticeable. Players of mages would get all upset because they're down a Magic point, and players of vatjobs would get all upset because they have less room to cram in the chrome.

However, we can't say that cortex bombs would transform into goo/stone just because they don't cost Essence (and therefore aren't considered a metaphysical part of the implantee). The spell specifically says that cyber doesn't transform, and c-bombs are indeed cyber.

Cyberware is 'affected' by the spell. Sine it is your aura that is affected.

however, the effect as you have mentioned is a specialized form of shapechange to change your 'organic matter' to goo.

Much like you could (atleast in my games) 'shapechange' to a meta-human that appears exactly like you but with bright blue hair..

Turn to goo shape-changes you into something that looks like you with all of your 'organic' parts turned to go.

The cyberware is still intransicately a part of you as before... instead of being surronded by flesh, blood, bone, tissue, etc it is now surronded by 'goo'.

I think it's AD&D "Green Slime" conditioning or maybe for the younger set too much "Double Dare".