emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 03:56 PM
Would you make it easier to craft foci/initiate/whatever if the player roleplays the creating thereof? For example, if he does the meditation ordeal and he narrates what he sees when he does it, would you allow him to initiate for less karma? Same thing for if he crafts and bonds a weapon focus in a dojo?
stevebugge
Mar 20 2006, 04:03 PM
No.
MK Ultra
Mar 20 2006, 04:03 PM
As a GM, I generally expect this stuff more or less for every character advancement. Otherwise, I´d be reluctant to even allow it, especially with Initiation, but less so with foci.
If the RPing is good and or extensive, or the player actually writes something up (or for foci even draws something up), I´ll generally give extra Karma, that can be spent for the advancement.
Azralon
Mar 20 2006, 04:43 PM
QUOTE (MK Ultra) |
If the RPing is good and or extensive, or the player actually writes something up (or for foci even draws something up), I´ll generally give extra Karma, that can be spent for the advancement. |
Same here.
Geekkake
Mar 20 2006, 05:52 PM
I don't provide bonus modifiers for RP during initiations, foci creation, etc., because these events should be roleplayed to begin with. From a logical perspective, a focus has to have some kind of personal connection to the mage to bond via Karma, an Initiation is a personal journey into the mage's goddamned psyche. Without roleplay, I'd immediately declare the effort unsuccessful, regardless of rolls. There's simply nothing behind the effort, no connection to integrate the focus or ordeal into the mage's soul.
However, if the RP is well-done, I award bonus Karma, which is standard practice on my runs.
emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 05:56 PM
So if the character obviously shows more initiative than normal, then he should get a bonus? That's about right.
mfb
Mar 20 2006, 05:59 PM
i'm not sure initiation and foci creation should have to be rp'd. i mean, if the GM has a plot point he wants to develop with one, or the player has a cool idea for his initiation, great. but who wants to try and roleplay something that can be summed up as "i sit on the floor cross-legged for six hours and think about stuff"? or "i lock myself into my lab for a week and smelt pig iron". trying to rp an initiation, or a focus creation, can be cool, and is definitely worthy of some karmic reward. trying to rp all of them, though? meh...
emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 06:05 PM
What if the dude's really philosophically complicated? Then I think it's okay for him to rp every initiation. Maybe he doesn't want his magic to be treated as just another thing for him.
stevebugge
Mar 20 2006, 06:07 PM
QUOTE (mfb) |
i'm not sure initiation and foci creation should have to be rp'd. i mean, if the GM has a plot point he wants to develop with one, or the player has a cool idea for his initiation, great. but who wants to try and roleplay something that can be summed up as "i sit on the floor cross-legged for six hours and think about stuff"? or "i lock myself into my lab for a week and smelt pig iron". trying to rp an initiation, or a focus creation, can be cool, and is definitely worthy of some karmic reward. trying to rp all of them, though? meh... |
I'd second that. Most groups have a limited amount of game time, as a player I would be pretty miffed if one of the players wanted to roleplay his bonding or enchanting to get a few points karma break on it. As a GM I just flat out wouldn't allow it because I have to get up and go to work the next morning and I have other plans for the game time we have that don't involve having a character dinking around in his basement attaching feathers to a miniature totem pole. If a player decides they want to make a focus and wants to make an adventure of it, one that the entire group can participate in (focus scavenger hunts can be fun!) then they can have a Karma award for the adventure.
emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 06:09 PM
What if my description takes, like, 2 minutes, tops? Such as, "To bond this air spirit focus, I go to the top of a skyscraper to feel the wind and magically focus it into my mystical wind thingy." Or maybe I say "I use the alchemical acid to etch a haiku into my katana surrounded by caligraphy written by great swordsmen." That's inventive enough, I think, and it doesn't take much time.
mfb
Mar 20 2006, 06:12 PM
eh. if you do stuff like that consistently, i'd probably give you some bonus karma once every few sessions for general good rp. if you only pull that out when you're trying to do something karma-intensive, probably not.
emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 06:14 PM
What constitutes good RP for you? Being funny? Coming up with good lines? Acting out your character well?
Lagomorph
Mar 20 2006, 06:14 PM
QUOTE (emo samurai) |
What if my description takes, like, 2 minutes, tops? Such as, "To bond this air spirit focus, I go to the top of a skyscraper to feel the wind and magically focus it into my mystical wind thingy." Or maybe I say "I use the alchemical acid to etch a haiku into my katana surrounded by caligraphy written by great swordsmen." That's inventive enough, I think, and it doesn't take much time. |
That would work, I think it's only as indepth as you want it to be. And like others have said, something above and beyond the call of duty, perhaps outside of game time, may have additional rewards.
mfb
Mar 20 2006, 06:19 PM
all of the above, emo. in the table game i run, i've got a guy who talks in his 'in-character' voice even when he's just describing what his character is doing--walking down the street, reloading in a firefight, doesn't matter. i've got another guy who doesn't have an in-character voice at all, and who does things like running into the middle of a bunch of bad guys to grab the piece of primo gear one of the dead ones has on him. guess which one gets more karma (or, well, more chips, since it's a Deadlands game).
emo samurai
Mar 20 2006, 06:30 PM
I don't know; running into the middle of the fight would be fun in RL, mortal risk aside. I mean, how primo was the gear? If it was good enough, that might have been a tactical decision. And what does the munchkin's OC voice sound like? Is it monotone or something?
Azralon
Mar 20 2006, 06:35 PM
If someone is particularly good at RPing (or otherwise contributing to the game), then I'm inclined to give them more karma. It doesn't matter if it's during their ninth initiation or during a beer run to the Stuffer Shack.
That's the extent of it. It's canon, it's simple, and it rewards those who put forth extra effort.
Geekkake
Mar 20 2006, 06:37 PM
I can see some of the game-time concerns being voiced, and I completely agree. Which is why my group doesn't get to do things like bond foci or Initiate in the middle of a run. As far as I'm concerned, our weekly sessions are reserved for running, and brief downtime activities.
When my players want to do time-consuming downtime stuff like bond foci, Initiate, train new attributes or skills, build a car, program software, etc., they E-Mail the descriptive, RP-oriented portion of process, and check their sheets (always keep a copy of a char's sheet), make a few quick rolls, and give them a descriptive result. Takes five to ten minutes, usually, which is no huge chunk out of my day. When I'm sitting around on IM, it can be done anytime (aside from game-time).
The only real stipulation I have for this method is how much downtime the characters have. If the characters are in the middle of a run when we broke off last session, sorry, no time. But the rolls and descriptions can still be done, and later applied in game-time once there's enough downtime to allow the attempt.
mfb
Mar 20 2006, 06:42 PM
it's a GM call, emo. as his GM, i don't see him putting much extra effort into RP, and i see him occasionally do things that are completely out of what character he's built. sure, there are some characters that would stop fighting in order to grab a piece of gear some guy dropped, but his character isn't one of them, from what rp he's displayed.
MK Ultra
Mar 20 2006, 06:53 PM
I do agree, that downtime stuff should not consume to much gametime. Thats why I try to handel this stuff betweem sessions, too. And I allso dont allow to have this stuf taken place betweem session, if the character does not have this much time.
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 12:37 AM
This is all stuff I would do. Thanks. Pretty much the only rule for RP I'll use is, "entertain me."
Kremlin KOA
Mar 21 2006, 01:24 AM
QUOTE (emo samurai) |
What if my description takes, like, 2 minutes, tops? Such as, "To bond this air spirit focus, I go to the top of a skyscraper to feel the wind and magically focus it into my mystical wind thingy." Or maybe I say "I use the alchemical acid to etch a haiku into my katana surrounded by caligraphy written by great swordsmen." That's inventive enough, I think, and it doesn't take much time. |
have an edge point back
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 02:23 AM
My point is that there is normal, "Wisdom of the Ancients" or "Just in from MIT&T" magic that other people tell you works, and then there's the magic that you sort of make up yourself. The magic you make up yourself should work better because each person's magic is different, and if he works to make it work for himself rather than a magical group, then it should work better for him. Hence, the greater karmic efficiency.
Dissonance
Mar 21 2006, 02:27 AM
Except in SR3, the exact opposite was true. Working within the confines of a group, rather than following your own magical tradition, resulted in 'greater karmic efficiency."
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 02:32 AM
Bah. POWER TO THE INDIVIDUAL! Seriously, though, I think it's more of a challenge for the player to make his own paradigm than it is for him to choose a Level 2 contact at character creation.
yesman
Mar 21 2006, 02:34 AM
In my opinion, email or forum posts are the best way to handle this kind of RP opportunity in any great amount of depth. Then spend a little time in game on it to reinforce it, when appropriate.
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 02:35 AM
I know. My college has a forum, and any RP'd purchases and stuff between runs that everyone has to be at will be done on it.
Halabis
Mar 21 2006, 03:06 AM
QUOTE (emo samurai) |
Bah. POWER TO THE INDIVIDUAL! Seriously, though, I think it's more of a challenge for the player to make his own paradigm than it is for him to choose a Level 2 contact at character creation. |
right there you said it. its more of a challenge to make your own paradigm. that means harder. Its easier to do it the way thast been tried and tested.
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 03:09 AM
I think of magic groups differently though; I imagine them as founded on the broadening of horizons than on the limiting of thought. Their power isn't on doing what's done before; it's on learning new things you may or may not have thought of yourself. And I'm not saying that making your own magic will force you away from any sort of group; talking to people will help you make your own magic and most likely find out more about it than talking to yourself. So I guess magical groups help by providing the other side of the internal debate that is self-discovery instead of forcing you to rely on yourself to provide arguments you may not agree with or think of.
Edward
Mar 21 2006, 04:42 AM
In SR3 you could.
Buy belonging to a magical group you could get a discount on initiation, but your magical group may require membership fees and or services from you.
You could take an ordeal (such as righting a thesis or swearing an oath) but there was always a significant downside (break the oath and loos a point of magic, your thesis can be used to perform ritual magic against you, and if its ever destroyed you loos the point of magic)
Buy making your own foci (costing time and requiring a skill and access to a enchanting shop) you could save money and a little karma, buy incorporating oricalcum (costing lots of money or time to make it) you could save more karma.
I suspect rules for these things will be available in the expanded magic book.
emo samurai
Your description of magical groups is narrow. There are many magical groups with differing traditions and focuses, some will be as you described, some will require strict adherence to established forms.
Edward
emo samurai
Mar 21 2006, 05:03 AM
Either way, you're learning something you haven't learned before. I think my vision, in principle, still stands. Even if what you're learning's very narrow in scope.
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