The only thing I know about how cell phones work is that you have to be somewhere near a cell phone tower in order to get "bars." And to be perfectly honest with you, I'm not entirely certain how the internet works either.
Thus, I don't have very many references on how to handle Signal strength in SR4, when it comes to interacting with the new wireless matrix. So here's a few questions that have plagued me:
If a hacker is out in the middle of a "dead zone", what does he need to get back in touch with the Matrix? Does he need to come into range of some sort of "Matrix Tower" (like a cell phone tower) to establish his connection? Or can he "daisy chain" back to civilzation provided that there are a chain of other smaller things to relay his signal? Like, let's just say for the sake of argument, he were leaving a trail of commlinks like breadcrumbs as he journeyed out further into the dead zone?
Hacky wants to place a standard phone call to Sammy. Hacky has a commlink with a Signal of 5, which gives it an effective range of 4km. Sammy has a commlink he found in a storm drain with a Signal of only 1, which gives it an effective range of only 100m. Hacky is 3km away from Sammy. Can Hacky still make the call or will it not go through...
...if it were in the middle of a "dead zone?"
...if it were in the middle of a major metropolitan area with Sammy well within the range of other commlinks and stuff that can pick up his Signal?
What happens when a commlink has enough Signal to "talk" to a Node, but the Node doesn't have enough Signal to reach the commlink?
How about the reverse: Someone has the Signal to "talk" to something you have from afar, but none of your own gear can reach them?
Are there such things as satellites that can relay your Signal to vast distances across the planet? What would you need to utilize them?
Let's go back to the "dead zone" example: If you knew you were about to travel out in the middle of a "dead zone", are there devices you can bring with you whose sole purpose is to relay your Signal and pick up traffic from civilzation? Perhaps your own personal satellite dish or something like that?
Full Version: How does the wireless matrix work?
| QUOTE (signal) |
| If a hacker is out in the middle of a "dead zone", what does he need to get back in touch with the Matrix? Does he need to come into range of some sort of "Matrix Tower" (like a cell phone tower) to establish his connection? Or can he "daisy chain" back to civilzation provided that there are a chain of other smaller things to relay his signal? Like, let's just say for the sake of argument, he were leaving a trail of commlinks like breadcrumbs as he journeyed out further into the dead zone? |
as i understand it, he can daisy chain it. not all devices will do the daisy chain thing for you though. as a rule, personal commlinks would not (although if you dropped them yourself, you could certainly program them otherwise).
| QUOTE |
| Hacky wants to place a standard phone call to Sammy. Hacky has a commlink with a Signal of 5, which gives it an effective range of 4km. Sammy has a commlink he found in a storm drain with a Signal of only 1, which gives it an effective range of only 100m. Hacky is 3km away from Sammy. Can Hacky still make the call or will it not go through... ...if it were in the middle of a "dead zone?" |
depends on what you meant. if hacky can reach any wireless device to daisy chain back to the main network, no problems for him. same thing as far as sammy is concerned. if either are too far from the main network and can not daisy chain, then they can only send the call as far as their personal signal. my understanding is that hacky could send messages up to 4 km away, but sammy could send them only 100 m.
| QUOTE |
| ...if it were in the middle of a major metropolitan area with Sammy well within the range of other commlinks and stuff that can pick up his Signal? |
as long as the network can also reach sammy, yes...in this specific case, not likely a problem 
| QUOTE |
| What happens when a commlink has enough Signal to "talk" to a Node, but the Node doesn't have enough Signal to reach the commlink? How about the reverse: Someone has the Signal to "talk" to something you have from afar, but none of your own gear can reach them? |
this is explained in the rules. as i recall, officially both devices must be within range of one another for any sort of communication to occur. i personally would allow one-way communication such as messages though. note that AR, and VR, are both two-way communication, and as such you cannot be hacked from further away than your signal reaches.
| QUOTE |
| Are there such things as satellites that can relay your Signal to vast distances across the planet? What would you need to utilize them? |
yes. yes there are such things. you would need a satellite link. it has a signal rating of 8, costs 500 
and is availability - i think.
and is availability - i think.| QUOTE |
| Let's go back to the "dead zone" example: If you knew you were about to travel out in the middle of a "dead zone", are there devices you can bring with you whose sole purpose is to relay your Signal and pick up traffic from civilzation? Perhaps your own personal satellite dish or something like that? |
basically, the satellite uplink. you may have to relay 2 or more for really long distances, but otherwise you should have no problem.
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 27 2006, 07:04 PM) |
| this is explained in the rules. as i recall, officially both devices must be within range of one another for any sort of communication to occur. i personally would allow one-way communication such as messages though. note that AR, and VR, are both two-way communication, and as such you cannot be hacked from further away than your signal reaches. |
Thanks for all of that, I think I have a better grasp on the abilities and limitations of the wireless Matrix now. And not only that, but thanks to what I quoted above, you also inadvertantly answered a previous question I had: How easy is it to hack cyberware?
According to page 212, cyberware only has a Signal strength of 0 (3 meters), which means that if a hacker wants to get a wired-up Samurai to shoot himself with his own cyberarm, he has to be standing within 3 meters of him. This, obviously, is not going to be a very easy thing to do.
i don't believe that is correct. the hacker can still communicate with they cyberware as long as the cyberware is within Signal range of another wireless transceiver. the whole point of the WMI is that it automatically creates a daisy chain between you and your target, if you know the target's address. so, you can hack a target's cyberlimb if the following conditions are met:
1) the cyberlimb's wireless uplink is turned on;
2) you know the cyberlimb's address;
3) the cyberlimb is within 3m of a registered wireless transceiver (such as the target's commlink).
1) the cyberlimb's wireless uplink is turned on;
2) you know the cyberlimb's address;
3) the cyberlimb is within 3m of a registered wireless transceiver (such as the target's commlink).
Can't the target in question just forbid their commlink to relay any transmissions to and from his own cyberlimbs?
probably. that still leaves you open to having your limbs controlled via your hacked commlink, though.
Wait a minute... Jaid just told me Commlinks wouldn't relay anybody's signal by default. I'm confused again. 
regardless of whether or not commlinks take part in daisy chains to other networks (the PAN of the guy next to you, for instance), they do form the backbone of your own PAN, of which your cyberlimbs are a part.
I had to chew on that for a moment but I think I got it now. 
Anyhow, back to the subject of the wireless Matrix of 2070:
Since it has now been established that not every device capable of wireless transmission takes part in a daisy chain to other devices, am I correct to assume that cities would have all sorts of devices that are constructed for that very purpose all over the map?
It only costs a few thousand dollars to have a device that can transmit up to 4km, and it can fit in the palm of your hand.
So... the government (or corporations) would set up all sorts of devices all over the city whose sole purpose is to receive and relay transmissions from personal commlinks to wherever they need to go? And that's how those daisy-chains get started? Kind of like cell phone towers, only I would imagine these devices wouldn't cost that much, be rather small, and be a snap to set up (I mean heck, if we have telephone poles and wires all over the damn place here and now, I don't think plunking down a "matrix relay box" and powering it on would be a big deal).
Am I getting somewhere in the ballpark or am I way off-base?
Anyhow, back to the subject of the wireless Matrix of 2070:
Since it has now been established that not every device capable of wireless transmission takes part in a daisy chain to other devices, am I correct to assume that cities would have all sorts of devices that are constructed for that very purpose all over the map?
It only costs a few thousand dollars to have a device that can transmit up to 4km, and it can fit in the palm of your hand.
So... the government (or corporations) would set up all sorts of devices all over the city whose sole purpose is to receive and relay transmissions from personal commlinks to wherever they need to go? And that's how those daisy-chains get started? Kind of like cell phone towers, only I would imagine these devices wouldn't cost that much, be rather small, and be a snap to set up (I mean heck, if we have telephone poles and wires all over the damn place here and now, I don't think plunking down a "matrix relay box" and powering it on would be a big deal).
Am I getting somewhere in the ballpark or am I way off-base?
sounds about right to me.
| QUOTE (Signal) |
| Wait a minute... Jaid just told me Commlinks wouldn't relay anybody's signal by default. I'm confused again. |
I would expect so. that's the whole point of a RL firewall, which your commlink should be acting as for your cyberware.
IMO, a commlink certainly won't allow a complete stranger to access that kind of thing.
now, if you hack the commlink, that would be a different matter. basically, IMO, to get a commlink to daisychain your signal, it must be set up to specifically allow it, IMO. anything else is just ridiculous, as it means the commlink allows anyone to log onto it and do whatever they want.
PUBLIC systems will simply daisychain you, IMO. private systems will not.
and anyone who rules otherwise is inviting a shadowrunner team's hacker to simply command ares' distribution system to recognise you as an official store, not to bother making any appropriate paperwork, and start sending you all the cool toys you want. provided you know the address, that is.
which, i think it's safe to say, is not how it works.
IMO, a commlink certainly won't allow a complete stranger to access that kind of thing.
now, if you hack the commlink, that would be a different matter. basically, IMO, to get a commlink to daisychain your signal, it must be set up to specifically allow it, IMO. anything else is just ridiculous, as it means the commlink allows anyone to log onto it and do whatever they want.
PUBLIC systems will simply daisychain you, IMO. private systems will not.
and anyone who rules otherwise is inviting a shadowrunner team's hacker to simply command ares' distribution system to recognise you as an official store, not to bother making any appropriate paperwork, and start sending you all the cool toys you want. provided you know the address, that is.
which, i think it's safe to say, is not how it works.
It's becoming more and more clear to me now. Thanks! 
| QUOTE (Signal) |
| Since it has now been established that not every device capable of wireless transmission takes part in a daisy chain to other devices, am I correct to assume that cities would have all sorts of devices that are constructed for that very purpose all over the map? |
This is, actually, a socio-political economics question.
For any given city ask yourself what sort of political party was running it during the time when wireless took off. Libertarians and Republicans are unlikely to support a public works project like this. A Progressive party however, one favoring social programs and a higher tax base to back those programs would.
A fiscal conservative party, such as the Libertarians, would expect private industry to do this.
Given that Shadowrun is a world of Megacorps, it is unlikely for any Progressive party to have had any sway in the world since the late 20th century.
So I would say there are no city funded relays. You want to get on a relay network, you're going to have to hack whatever is the local 2070 version of a cellphone company, and then use its private relays, and if you have to switch networks where their turf doesn't hit but another corp's does (and in 90% of a city they likely overlap - much as cell networks do today)... Well, on a network switch you'd have to hack in all over again.
maybe not city-funded, but likely city-sponsored, corp-funded. running the wireless backbone of a city gives a corp a hell of a lot of power in that city.
Possibly. But consider San Francisco today.
This very plan has been proposed, and sure enough it is already going to legal action with all the fiscal conservatives coming out of the woodwork claiming a communist invasion while the corps are gearing up to sue anyone who wins the contract to make the entire city wireless... while also each trying to be the one to win the contract. In turn, progressives are objecting over a potential monopoly which could screen content...
If one private actor gets the city backing, they lock out the others by definition and lock out the public. This presents a nightmare both to corporates who want a market in which to compete and citizens who want to avoid a monopoly that can jack up prices with no ability to resist and no government accountability.
If a region ever gets an area wide network, it is likely to be public, and in any administration that is fiscally conservative that idea would not fly. Groups like 'Ma Bell' - which were private actors running nationwide networks - were broken up not by progressives, but by conservatives who feared the lack of market competition that locked out the opportunity for other rich people to get richer.
Unless a single corp owns the city outright, no other corp is going to let it get away with locking out the others in a city-sponsored network.
This very plan has been proposed, and sure enough it is already going to legal action with all the fiscal conservatives coming out of the woodwork claiming a communist invasion while the corps are gearing up to sue anyone who wins the contract to make the entire city wireless... while also each trying to be the one to win the contract. In turn, progressives are objecting over a potential monopoly which could screen content...
If one private actor gets the city backing, they lock out the others by definition and lock out the public. This presents a nightmare both to corporates who want a market in which to compete and citizens who want to avoid a monopoly that can jack up prices with no ability to resist and no government accountability.
If a region ever gets an area wide network, it is likely to be public, and in any administration that is fiscally conservative that idea would not fly. Groups like 'Ma Bell' - which were private actors running nationwide networks - were broken up not by progressives, but by conservatives who feared the lack of market competition that locked out the opportunity for other rich people to get richer.
Unless a single corp owns the city outright, no other corp is going to let it get away with locking out the others in a city-sponsored network.
| QUOTE (arcady @ Mar 27 2006, 11:13 PM) |
| So I would say there are no city funded relays. You want to get on a relay network, you're going to have to hack whatever is the local 2070 version of a cellphone company, and then use its private relays, and if you have to switch networks where their turf doesn't hit but another corp's does (and in 90% of a city they likely overlap - much as cell networks do today)... Well, on a network switch you'd have to hack in all over again. |
Uh... I don't see any rules in the book about having to pay some kind of fee for permission to use the Matrix, which is what you'd expect a corporation to do.
Also, what you hypothesized (access to the Matrix being restricted to certain areas unless you hacked it), if that were indeed the case I think it would have been mentioned in the main rulebook, along with rules on how to hack into it. As it is right now, the impression I got from reading "The Wireless World" was that accessing the 2070 Matrix was a simple matter of plunking down the cash for a Commlink, any Commlink, and turning it on.
good point, arcady. still, i'm not sure that necessarily means that there aren't open-access citywide wireless networks. SR4 seems to assume there are, at any rate, though i only have negative evidence to support that--the book doesn't, as recall, mention having to hack your way onto the Matrix every time, if you don't have legal access. maybe the CC set up funds for getting wireless routers set up in most major cities, on the premise that it would empower the CC as a whole?
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