Is it just me or does it seem really difficult to buy a new vehicle in terms of being a shadowrunner? Theft seems like always the fastest and cheapest option. But since most riggers are going to customize their machines anyways, how does one go about buying used vehicles? We all know that IRL most cars depreciate about half in value as soon as they drive off the lot, so for a decent mechanic a used vehicle will always be cheaper to purchase, especially if purchased privately. I mean I can pick up any newspaper or bargain finder and check out hundreds of vehicles that I can purchase if I have cash on hand. No ID or anything. (For the SINless this means a lot) But not pay some hefty SI. Any ideas governing these sales?

The same thing also can be said regarding parts if you need to fix a vehicle. Any suggestions on salvaging parts or raiding junkyards? As the normal rules stand its almost not worth fixing a vehicle if it gets damaged, just get a new one.

Lastly what are the penalties of not having the facilities to make customizations or repairs? For example in R3 it might list vehicle facility required to make a customization, but what if you only have a shop available? Is it just impossible (which doesn't seem realistic) or are there modifiers and penalties somewhere that reflect greater difficulty and time?

Well, regarding the shop thing: If you need to take an entire engine block out (correct me if you will, I'm not a gearhead), you have two options: have one of those chain do-hickies that on a track on the ceiling (definatly a shop required there), or call your three biggest friends (or four, or five, depending on how big your friends are) and bribe them with chicken wings. So, I think it's reasonable to say that some things just can't be done without a shop.

About the new vehicles... don't ask me, I've had players finance cars at local used car places. More than once. Without being a resident of the country they were in.

That's not going to happen anymore.

There is a hoist out there that rides on four casters with a boom arm and chain that can lift a car engine block out, with the transmission attached. It is built for the home mechanic. Some have electric motors and some just have a chain ratchet lift. If I can find a link I'll post it. Some shops rent them out.

Engine Hoist

The main thing about a shop or a facility is the space. You can get all the tools for the home to do anything with cars you could want. It is just the space to spread out an work comfortably.

I stand corrected.

ok guys, this is one thing I DO know about, and don't have to pretend... lol after all, this is what I do for a living. Anyway, in the professional mechanic world, I've known guys to rebuild and restore entire cars in a two car garage, you need that much space if you are going to be pulling motors and such. But you can still do it in your driveway with exactly the hoist that Frag-o shows (which we even use at work) and, although it is harder and takes longer (hence the penalties) without air tools and such, it could be done with a modest tool set from Wally-world. but as far as motors, setting up computers to handle mods and install ing the mods, most guys I know doing that kind of thing would have prolly at least a skill 5 and still be asking the skil 8 guys for help (if I install this turbo and feul pump, what pound rating of fuel injectors do I need? What gearing should I use?)

On the used vehicle thing:

Check out p.77 of R3 (might be a different page in R3Revised) under the "Used Vehicle" quality factor.

It mentions that a used vehicle starts with 1D6 hidden stress points. Unfortunately it doesn't suggest a cost, but I could have sworn I saw something somewhere about used vehicles being about half the original cost.

The cost is stated, although in a somewhat obscure manner. Being a prototype or used vehicle decreases the markup by .6. To figure how this works in relation to a normal vehicle, find the chassis type, divide the current cost by the multiplier, multiply that result by .6 less than the normal multiplier.

Oddly, this results in motorcycles, water scooters, sand buggies, most drones and a few other chassis types having negative cost. In such cases I would advise using a lesser form of the option: 1-3 stress and a markup reduction of .3 or 1-2 stress and markup reduction of .2 (for the really cheap frames).

Wait, wait, so you guys actually *pay* for your cars? :confused:

Why not? Why should you dirty your hands for small money?
You can sell enemy's bodies for big bucks, hack the corporate networks, hit yakuza narcotics truck (well, caveat is surviving after), work LEGALLY

And steal cars just for mission, if needed.

I like the suggestion of buying cars used. Rigger are going to play with it anyway .

In RL the quickest engine change I saw was 3 of us- two burley guys and me, but that was a VW bug and the damn things were built like leggo's anyway.

How a bout a time factor for such ad hoc customizations? I was thinking double the time for each step of gear that was missing. For example if the customization required a vehicle facility, having only a shop would double the time, having only a kit would quadruple it. After all, a good mechanic can probably do any job given enough volunteers and time, and of course beer for the volunteers...

A RL example: If you have to change tires on a car, having a facility it'll take about twenty minutes. If you only have say a good jack, wrenches and some jackstands, maybe an hour or so. Just that dinky jack and that half assed tire iron the car comes with, maybe half a day's work. No tools, well you're SOL.

BTW can someone direct me to the rules for increasing manpower? You know, if it takes one man a day to do a job, it'll take 2, 12 hrs, etc.