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ShadowDragon8685
A busy year, eh? MI-6 must be running around ragged.


So here's our idea. My friend and I are going to mod the Awakening to the year 1986. The Awakening, in fact, happens on January 1st, leading rise to one of the most interesting years around. We're going to do the MI-6 thing.

Here's the rub. Since we're starting the Awakening, Awakened characters should probably cost more since the rest of us don't have cyberware to even the odds. Since we're starting around the Awakening, we were thinking of Shamans being the only magical path readily available, with Hermetic Mages being available as members of a "kept the faith all these years" sect.


Our problem is... We need help. We're going to run through the Companion (doing SR3 rules) to cherry-pick edges and flaws and stuff. But we mainly need advice on rebalancing Awakened characters against Mundanes.
SL James
Rebalancing? Seriously? My advice: Don't.
ShadowDragon8685
Uhhhh, woulden't that give Awakened characters an incredible edge in power over the rest of us?


We also need to refigure the starting wealth. Remember, 1986 was the days wherein super-villians would hold cities hostage for a million dollars.... Well, ten million, anyway. smile.gif
hyzmarca
My advice is to keep most cyberware and all combat drugs. Remember the Free World's two great Steves, Steve Austin and Steve Rogers.
Retool some of the flavor so all of the 'ware is top secret and anyone who has it is either owned by a goverment or paragovernmental orginization or is being hunted by every government and paragovernmental orginization in the world.
Make drug addiction less damaging in the short run but still long term devestating and. With the supply of designer combat drugs limited to the same orginizations as the cyberware these drug users will be trapped with no way out.
Be very careful with what you allow from the sourcebooks. I would recomend sticking to the core rules for the most part. Exotic 'ware and advanced magic would be rare.

And cyberlimbs should clearly be labeled unleaded only.
ShadowDragon8685
I dunno. That would seem too much like the Sixth World. Okay, so it IS the Sixth World, but nobody knows it yet, and none of the Megacorps are Mega. In fact, some of them have yet to be Incoporated. let alone Megacorporated.
hyzmarca
That's why reflavoring it is important. Won't be our tried and true Sixth World cyberware.

This will be the proto-prototypes that that stuff why be based on. It will be messy and unpleasent and about as rare as magic is if not rarer. And don't even think about grades. The only grade this stuff comes in is "you must be insane ."

Of course, with the mention of supervillians one must consider the possibility to superscience 80s superscience. And even Jaws was a cyborg.
If you can tolerate camp you can firmly pull the scenario back into the 80s by having the Six Million Dollar Man and Michael Knight make guest appearances and have a cyborg villian scream "Cobra!" as he charges to his death.


Of course, no datajacks is a given.
ShadowDragon8685
Hyz... That's not really the stuff an operator of MI-6 would be given. That's the kind of stuff that's only seen in dark-science chop-shop laboratories down in the basements of the basements of the basements that's never really used by a government actor.

Really, can you see James Bond sporting a gas-powered cyberarm? I can't. Or hopped up on combat drugs? Nope.


On another note, I'm trying to pin down what was the service rifle in use by Britain's armed forces in the year 1986. I'm not sure where to look.


Remember, this game may be the Sixth World, but it's not the Sixth World that Shadowrun knows. In this Sixth World, the space shuttle Challenger was taken down when a dragon's emergence by freak chance intersected the shuttle's airspace and clipped her. We still don't know what caused Chernobyl (probably because it hasen't happened yet,), but we may have a lot of fun finding out... smile.gif
John Campbell
If you're actually running early in the Awakening, you've got the perfect excuse to gimp the mages. The knowledge and techniques that we've got at our fingertips in standard SR are the end result of fifty years of magic, and won't have been developed yet. The mana level may still be low, only barely above whatever threshold it passes at the boundary between Worlds.

This means that you're perfectly justified in trimming the spell list any way you like, and ditto for the metamagics - maybe even disallowing initiation entirely. Spell formulae will be hard to find and expensive at best, and the people who have them may not be willing to share. Initial Spell Point allowances should probably be sharply reduced (maybe even eliminated), and the cost for extra ones greatly increased. Spell research will be difficult, and hermetic libraries with half-decent ratings (necessary to design spells with half-decent ratings) will be rare, valuable, and highly-sought-after artifacts in and of themselves. Ditto for foci and other magical gear.

And a low mana level may mean difficulty sourcing power for spells, resulting in increased Drain. Geas-like restrictions might be involved in getting it to work at all. Adept powers may be limited in selection, reduced in effectiveness, and/or increased in cost (and Drain, for those that have it). Spirits may be weak, limited in Force or restricted in what powers they can use. Nature spirits might require elemental-like rituals to summon, and elementals... well, good luck finding a decent conjuring library. Astral projection could be fatiguingly difficult or dangerous.

And, of course, unless you mess with the whens and hows of UGE, the only elves and dwarves will be young children, and there won't be any orks or trolls at all.

Oh, yeah, '86 was the last pass of Halley's Comet, too.
hyzmarca
Gas powered cyberarms I see on villianous henchmen more than the heroes themselves.

The heroes could afford things that are a little less obvious, like kevlar plates implanted under the skin. I imagine a sexy nurse telling a nervous male agent " Don't worry, its no different from a women getting a breast implants excpt there are bulletproof".

Some simpler 'ware from SR3 can fit in the setting with a little tweeking. Would MI6 give it to field agents? Probably if it would give them an edge over the Commies and certainly if the soviets have their own cyberagents.

As for combat drugs, I'm reminded of the Third Season of 24 where Jack Bauer is shooting up heroin in his office because he got addicted during an undercover assignment. It isn't the same as combat drugs but agents do what they have to do.

Again, it depends very much on the flavor of your games. But spy fiction is rife with crazy prototype gadgets and orginizations with silly names populated by gimick villians.

Personally, I would go through the the cyberware sections or SR3 and M&M and make a list of every piece of 'ware that I would allow the PCs to have based on the flavor I want then then I would rewrite the flavor pieces for each item to better fit the setting. Then I would take out SR3 and MitS and do the same for magic.

The important thing is that you have to control the setting to get the flavor you want. It isn't just about balance. If you want a magic heavy game then there is no need to nerf magic in favor of mundanes. If you want magic to be weak then you enforce limits on magic and then find an IC reason why. If you want mundanes to have an edge that lets them stand up to magicians then you first determine what that edge should be statistically then you create an IC reason for that edge.

Now, the flavor examples I gave are what I would use if I was running such a game. You don't have to use them. You use the flavor you want. But, the game is already balanced the way it is. You can use the cyberware mechanics without using cyberware, you just have to find a new fluff justification for the statistical penalities and the benefits formerly associeted with cyberware and you can use any excuse for these statistical changes that you want. You could change "essence" to "machismo" and say that tiny green martions namd kazoo come down in their spaceships and strike the character with a xylophone in such a way that it grants statistical bonuses but makes the character less suave and manly, thus providing social penalities and making health spells more difficult to cast on the character and that would be okay because it is your game world.

In short, don't fix what ain't broken just find a way to justify it that doesn't destroy the flavor of your game.

Edit: Or just make everyone Adepts without exception.
ShadowDragon8685
So far the plan to tweak mages is mostly increasing the karma costs associated with everything. JC, your ideas sound good, but I am wholely unversed in SR3 magic - I always wanted to be a decker who moonlighted as a sammie. I'll point your post to the DM involved (I'm a co-conspirator) who knows the Magic rules.

Hyz, this isen't a Mutants and Commies and Masterminds and Capitalists game. (I think I just merged two different games there, but whatev.) It's a James Bond game merged with the early days of the awakening. And I mean the very early days - the Awakening was January 1. smile.gif

As for UGE and all - the only elves and orks are babies born on or after January 1, 1986. Goblinization hasen't started yet, and SURGE? You can forget it. smile.gif

Actually, boning up on my Chernobyl, it occurs to me that the site is in 2070, unless this has been covered in SoE or something, still radioactive, only the tiniest fraction of a percent less 'hot' than it was on April 26, 1986.. I'd imagine that the inside of the #4 reactor building has a background count of 10 - pure mana warp - and the surrounding countryside all has a 5. I'd imagine the places directly around the building would have at least a 7 or 8...

So, it occurs to me... That would be the perfect place to find dangerous and unhealthy things for a toxic shaman. You could kill a whole lot of people by 'harvesting' the radioactive nastiness still in there.
hyzmarca
You shouldn't do Chernobyl without a look at this site
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html


As for the mutants and commies thing, well that is where we differ but it is just a matter of preferance.

My practical advice is that the same basic statistical mechanisms of cyberware (the loss of a special attribute for an increase in a standard attribute) can be used with whatever fluff justification you want. You can even use the cyberware rules to determine essence loss to bonus ratios.

It doens't have to be cyberware, it doesn't have to be anything. I'd use prototype cyber and supersoldier serums only because that is my preferance. You can come up with a completely different fluff justification for the game mechanism.
Crusher Bob
For the British service rifle the SA-80 was in the process of replacing the SLR (a copy of the FN-FAL). Here's a version of that story.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Gas powered cyberarms I see on villianous henchmen more than the heroes themselves.

A little aside...

There was a game titled SteamPunk that was out for a brief time. Imagine, steam powered cyberlimbs.

(need that "fireman" contact)

Of course in one segment (my favourite) of Harlequin's Back I believe that Cyberlimbs were fueled by Phlogiston.
ShadowDragon8685
Crusher - awesome link. Ta.

I'm trying to use firearms from Raygun's site as much as possible. Fortunately, he has the FN-FAL listed. smile.gif

For those interested, or who want to pick nits, here's what I have so far. This is what you'll get if you petition your service to replace lost/damaged/destroyed/sold/traded/thrown-at-an-enemy firearms. You can of course carry other things, but that's your dime/pence/ruble on the line, not theirs. This is basically a list of "service-issue" carry weapons, based upon what your job in any potential operation is:



CIA:
Pistols: Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering), Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 magnum only)
Submachine guns: MP5 series (Your choice), Uzi series (Your choice)
Assault Rifles: M16A2, M4A1
Long Rifle: Steyer Armory M21 Tactical

MI-6
Pistols: H&K P92, SIG 220 (9mm Para only)

Yes, that's right. Bond dosen't carry his Agency's service pistol. In the old days it was, but when the bodyguard of Her Royal Highness Princess Anne's PPK jammed during his attempt to use it during a kidnap attempt, the gun was withdrawn and verboten as a carry arm for all actors of the British government. Naturally, MI-6 turns a blind eye to this rule, allowing their Agents to use whatever the hell they damn well are most effective with.

Submachine guns: MP5/10, MP5/40
Assault Rifles:
Long Rifles:



I wanted to issue the USP series to MI-6, but... Maybe in another decade. smile.gif
nezumi
I've used the SR mechanics in the 16th century, with some major retooling. Some primary things I did:

1) Drop the combat pool (or reduce), unless you expect lots of group fights. In one on one fights, you can expect most people get a single action and get to dodge a single attack, so the question simply becomes 'offensive or defensive?' This may be less of a problem with you, since firearms are so common, and so the melee tests will be greatly reduced (one on one fist fights with 1 pass per round is terrible when combat pool is included.)

2) Mages start out with 0 spells. Adepts start out with 0 power points invested. All magic/power points start out at 0 or 1. Mages already have the incredible ability to astrally project even then, adepts have the ability to outpace anything alive. There's no reason to let them START being super. Everything must be discovered. The old initiation rules no longer count, characters must discover, on their own, how to tap into and increase their magic. Basically, every initiation requires research and/or questing. Magic spells require intensive study to learn, even at low levels (a level 1 boosted reflexes is just as game breaking, remember).

Also consider not telling the PCs whether they have magical abilities or not, simply have them manifest during game play. This way they won't know what's available, what's worth researching, etc. Feel free to retool major parts of magic 'just because'. You don't want them to know how magic works and plan around that, everything should be new, different, and at least mildly frightening.

3) Magic is fluid. A person may gain, lose or change abilities. A non-magical person may learn to be magical. A magical person may become less magical simply through lack of use. This means that no matter where you are in the game, any player has the potential to catch up with another. That said, even though magical ability is dynamic, don't assume that it's the same path for everyone. Some people may be born magical, some may need to be made that way.

4) I recommend caution in giving away karma. In my game I had one player and several NPCs who were pacing her. I didn't bother with karma, but advanced her abilities based solely on use (sort of like the original CoC mechanic). However, the nature of diminishing returns, which SR relies so heavily on, may make your mage more likely to acquire the best of both worlds with relatively little work, while your non-magical specialist has no choice but to continue blowing karma on relatively small gains. Two solutions leap to mind, firstly that non-magical people can become magical (or acquire other powers through other means equivalent to magic), or that the cost of investing in both fields is prohibitive - buying up to 3 or 4 in a skill no longer requires 10 karma, but 40.

You may want to consider figuring out SOMETHING to mirror cyber. Mutations, cool gadgets like James Bond, drugs, biological enhancements... Also consider applying more limitations to magic, such as longer casting times or even geas for each initiating level.

You may also want to consider the possibility that government agencies learned about magic first, and how to counter it (or at least detect it). The MK Ultra program was successful in that it allowed mundanes to see the astral/caused people with latent ability to awaken. Immediately they studied how to counter this terrible power. They learned where and how to build buildings (say, underground) to avoid astral spying, what sort of weapons work to block magic, etc. Not everything works. The government is very, very paranoid about magic users and will catch them first, then ask questions later, after the dissection.
Lindt
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
You shouldn't do Chernobyl eithout a look at this site
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html



Great site there... spooky as all hell though.
ShadowDragon8685
Well, most of your things, I'm not sure I can use.


We're definately going to have gadgets, in spades. I can't wait to hear what my Q-Branch Watch does. I imagine it has a button that makes any automobile in a 20-meter radius start if it's not on, and stop if it is, or something similarly silly and useful in like, precisely two situations. smile.gif

Drugs, bio-enhancements, mutations? I dunno. They don't really fit the theme of either the 6th world or James Bond. I guess on the super-villians, but not for us to use.


As for magic, remember we're still literally days after the Awakening. They're going to have no concept that their secure rooms in the hearts of buildings can be penetrated by a simple Astral Projection. It could be interesting....

As for randomly divvying out the magic? I dunno, that's not my province. I'll direct the DM here, and tell him to start reading the thread. And beat him about the head and shoulders until he registers and starts posting.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (nezumi)
2) Mages start out with 0 spells. Adepts start out with 0 power points invested. All magic/power points start out at 0 or 1. Mages already have the incredible ability to astrally project even then, adepts have the ability to outpace anything alive.

Hehe, reminds me of a particular project that involves remote viewing and such.
bustedkarma
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
CIA:
Pistols: Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering), Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 magnum only)
Submachine guns: MP5 series (Your choice), Uzi series (Your choice)
Assault Rifles: M16A2, M4A1
Long Rifle: Steyer Armory M21 Tactical

MI-6
Pistols: H&K P92, SIG 220 (9mm Para only)

Submachine guns: MP5/10, MP5/40
Assault Rifles:
Long Rifles:




For flavor, I'm guessing some of the old spooks in '86 were still packing 1911's and .38 Revolvers. For the CIA Sniper Rifle, I'd think you'd also see some M-14s floating around, that was MILSPEC then, I think. Also on the parahunts, I don't think it would be a stretch to see some anti-material rifles deployed, some of the big .50BMG bastards.


Sounds like a killer idea man.
Happy Hunting.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 30 2006, 02:27 PM)
2)  Mages start out with 0 spells.  Adepts start out with 0 power points invested.  All magic/power points start out at 0 or 1.  Mages already have the incredible ability to astrally project even then, adepts have the ability to outpace anything alive.

Hehe, reminds me of a particular project that involves remote viewing and such.

I was thinking about that as well.

Mana level isn't a binary state phenomon. It is quite analog and had been rising steadily or semisteadily for decades leading up to the Awakening. The Awakening itself is simply th ethreshold point at which Great Dragons can rise from their slumber. There are plenty of canon examples of magic being used pre-awakening, examples of spirits being active pre-awakening and an example of an elf nosfaratu pre-awakening.

So remote viewing can be considred an example of limited pre-awakening magic use, possibly astral projection. The CIA has been studying this since 1972 and the KGB has been at it even longer. I'm sure MI-6 has been in it at some point too. From these early studies come methods of defending against magic and astral survailance should have been found. I'd also expect the psionic tradition to be most prevelant amongst the intelligence services for this reason. They already have psionic magicians working for them.
Kyoto Kid
Somewhat related,

It would be interesting to set things a little further back into the "duck & cover" era of the 50s - early 60s. Just think with McCarthyisim & the Red Scare running rampant & the Klan in pre-civil rights days, Buddy Holly, Elvis, and the Beaver.

Think about being awakened or goblinised. I may have to work this up.
nezumi
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
As for magic, remember we're still literally days after the Awakening. They're going to have no concept that their secure rooms in the hearts of buildings can be penetrated by a simple Astral Projection. It could be interesting....

If memory serves, magic rises and falls in an analog, not discrete pattern. The magic level has just now hit the threshold that people unintentionally begin to manifest magical abilities. That doesn't imply that magic didn't exist before that threshold was hit, or that the hundreds of magical societies and thousands of dedicated magic users (such as shamans) didn't actually manage to get some low-level magic effects through intensive practice and drugs. Especially in regards to astral vision which HAS been 'documented' in our current time. Dream quests and the like are a regular part of many religious groups, and the government genuinely did sink an awful lot of money into seeing if they could make psychics. Who says they didn't succeed? After all, you only need a magic rating of 1 (lower than that if you allow fractions) and no skills to project nyahnyah.gif

There's nothing in canon that says people could not astrally project, engage in psychic activity, etc. before the awakening. It is widely held now that people DO do those sorts of things right now. Who says they're wrong?

QUOTE

As for randomly divvying out the magic? I dunno, that's not my province.


It is a tough call, since it restricts the player's control over his own character, but it WOULD allow for the surprise of the awakening you're aiming for.

Something else to consider, making your initiative dice a statistic you can actually improve through karma expenditure. Perhaps 10/20/30 to increase to the different levels. That will let your non-mages keep up with the magic users without the use of drugs or mutations.

EVLTIM
QUOTE (bustedkarma)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
CIA:
Pistols: Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering), Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 magnum only)
Submachine guns: MP5 series (Your choice), Uzi series (Your choice)
Assault Rifles: M16A2, M4A1
Long Rifle: Steyer Armory M21 Tactical

MI-6
Pistols: H&K P92, SIG 220 (9mm Para only)

Submachine guns: MP5/10, MP5/40
Assault Rifles:
Long Rifles:




For flavor, I'm guessing some of the old spooks in '86 were still packing 1911's and .38 Revolvers. For the CIA Sniper Rifle, I'd think you'd also see some M-14s floating around, that was MILSPEC then, I think. Also on the parahunts, I don't think it would be a stretch to see some anti-material rifles deployed, some of the big .50BMG bastards.


Sounds like a killer idea man.
Happy Hunting.

Ditto that on the CIA .

Also you would be useing M16A1's still for a lot of units .and the m4 isn't even a pipe dream yet .Closest would be Colt xm177 seris and Comandos .
bustedkarma
QUOTE (EVLTIM)
QUOTE (bustedkarma @ Mar 30 2006, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
CIA:
Pistols: Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering), Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 magnum only)
Submachine guns: MP5 series (Your choice), Uzi series (Your choice)
Assault Rifles: M16A2, M4A1
Long Rifle: Steyer Armory M21 Tactical

MI-6
Pistols: H&K P92, SIG 220 (9mm Para only)

Submachine guns: MP5/10, MP5/40
Assault Rifles:
Long Rifles:




For flavor, I'm guessing some of the old spooks in '86 were still packing 1911's and .38 Revolvers. For the CIA Sniper Rifle, I'd think you'd also see some M-14s floating around, that was MILSPEC then, I think. Also on the parahunts, I don't think it would be a stretch to see some anti-material rifles deployed, some of the big .50BMG bastards.


Sounds like a killer idea man.
Happy Hunting.

Ditto that on the CIA .

Also you would be useing M16A1's still for a lot of units .and the m4 isn't even a pipe dream yet .Closest would be Colt xm177 seris and Comandos .

CAR-15 is a pretty respectable hand-off for the M-4. I know they were floating around. Also, what about the Browning High-Power in the UK arsenal?

www.world.guns.ru (it's in English) would be a great resource for you to use.

In fact, it's a great resource period.
Austere Emancipator
I'm always up for some nit-picking.

As people have mentioned, M16A1s would still be plentiful: the M16A2 and the M855/SS109 ammunition it fires is still brand spanking new in 1986, having coming out of the last experimental testing for the US Army in late 1985, and have not been delivered in large enough numbers yet to arm but a fraction of the US military. Ruleswise this makes little difference, of course, except for the M16A1 having a safe-semi-full trigger group instead of the M16A2's safe-semi-3. I doubt you'll want to delve into twist rates and the static stability of bullets in flight.

XM177s (a.k.a. CAR-15s) did exist in some numbers in 1986, but were not nearly as widespread as M4s are currently. The US military still made good use of MP5s, or even M3A1s, for close quarters combat at the time. The M4 was a pipe dream in 1986, since its development began in late 1984, but that's all it was, with only a few experimental prototypes in existence.

The Beretta 92 series is only available in 9x19mm. The M9 service pistol is also brand new in 1986 and only a fraction of US military handguns are M9s (92FSs) in 1986. As others have mentioned, M1911s and other miscellaneous handguns would be very common, possibly more common than 92s. I don't think 96s existed yet in 1986, so no .40 S&W Berettas. .44 Magnum revolvers should be very uncommon in these circles, various .357s are much more likely.

The Brits should definitely have the Browning HP in there. AFAIK, Heckler & Koch have never made a gun called "P92", so I assume you meant the P9/P9S. No doubt someone in British military intelligence could be found using either at that time. The P220s are a good call. The MP5/10 and MP5/40 did not exist in 1986, but other MP5 series SMGs (A2-5s mostly) would be very common throughout Central/Western Europe and the world. The Brits might also be using Sterling SMGs.

The Remington Model 700 in .308 Winchester, and various offshoots like the USMC M40, would be quite common among US sharpshooters. The British could be using Enfield L42A1s/Enforcers, AI L96s, Parker Hale M82s, or any of a wide selection of other European sniper rifles. The Barrett M82 existed, but AFAIK was not yet standard equipment for any military or LEO, and so would be extremely unlikely to be found in the hands of these guys.
ShadowDragon8685
Guys, remember... I'm not Raygun.

World.Guns.ru is an incredible resource, I use it all the time. But I don't have the time, patience, or skills to convert them all to SR3 stats. That's why I have to use guns already from Raygun's site.

Still, that point about the A1 and the M4 carbine is valid. Remember though, these are CIA operatives, not military units. They get the best gear the government can supply.
Austere Emancipator
It's not really a question of the best gear, but of the latest gear. Brand new gear has got its quirks, minor problems that still haven't been ironed out, which is especially very true for the SA80/L85 in 1986. Apart from problems of ammunition interchangeability, and being stuck in BF mode, the M16A2 could be considered all-around "better" than the M16A1, but the early XM4 prototypes of 1986, all 40(!) of them, were still very much a work-in-progress, and bound to burn your palms off when fired a lot.

There's also the question of what these guys are used to working with, what gear they're best at using. This, after all, is the alledged reason for Bond having used the PPK well past its expiration date... Also, some older designs (like the M1911) are still widely considered as good as or even better than the new designs which were supposed to replace them (like the M9/92FS) -- at the time, you can bet a lot of the older operators would have stuck with their trusted sidearms.

You don't need to "convert" these guns, you can just use the ones Raygun already has on his site and fiddle with some of the numbers a bit. Like so:

Browning Hi-Power Mark III = SIG P220 in 9x19mm except Ammo: 13, Weight: 0.91kg, Avail: 2/24hrs, Cost $800 (550)
M40A1 = Steyr SSG PI except Weight with scope and sling: 6.6kg, Avail: 8/14 days in Europe, Cost $2,500 (1,706)
Sterling L2A3 = FAMAE SAF with a folding stock, except Ammo: 34, Mode: SA/FA, Cost $600 (410)

$1 = 0.6822 in 1986. I can't be bothered to calculate inflation (84.76% for USD from 1986 to 2006) into those prices, since I'm guessing you won't either. I just made up the prices of the last two anyway.
ShadowDragon8685
AE - indeef, a lot of operators have stuck with their own weapons. This list is simply "What the agency will give you if you put in a requisition form". After all, procurement and issuance has the nasty habit of being as much politics as it is of the logical result of a search for a better weapon.

The SA-80 is the perfect case-in-point. I think that bitch is dead, done, toasted. Stick a fork in it, cause it's done. Fortunately for the players, MI-6 is not interested in sending it's actors the latest and greatest in pollitically-chosen death-to-my-operator rifles. That's why they get the SLR. smile.gif


Here's the updated list, BTW.


All firearms given within are found on Raygun's site, http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun
While it has been attempted to keep the guns listed to the actual service arms in use at the time, sometimes these are not available, and so a similar weapon from a similar armaments providor has been listed.

Here are the common issuances between the various agencies.
CIA:
Pistols: Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering), Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 magnum only)
Submachine guns: MP5 series (Your choice), Uzi series (Your choice)
Assault Rifles: M-16 A1
Long Rifle: Steyer Armory M21 Tactical, M1A/M14 (Found under "assault rifles") (M1A and Scout model only.)

MI-6
Pistols: H&K P92, SIG 220 (9mm Para only)

Yes, that's right. Bond dosen't carry his Agency's service pistol. In the old days it was, but when the bodyguard of Her Royal Highness Princess Anne's PPK jammed during his attempt to use it during a kidnap attempt, the gun was withdrawn and verboten as a carry arm for all actors of the British government. Naturally, MI-6 turns a blind eye to this rule, allowing their Agents to use whatever the hell they damn well are most effective with.

Submachine guns: MP5/10, MP5/40

Assault Rifles: SLR Rifle (Mechanically the FN FAL Battle Rifle)

Long Rifles: Steyer SSG (Your choice of PI, PII, or PIIK), Steyer Scout

KGB:
Pistols: Makarov PM/PMM, PSM
Submachine Guns: Izhmash Bizon, AKS-74U*
While the AKS-74U is considered a submachinegun by Soviet standards, the rest of the world considers it an assault rifle. It shares most of it's design with the AK-74, and as such uses the Assault Rifles skill, and is best described as an "Assault carbine"
Assault Rifles: Do you really need to ask? This is the Soviet Union, remember?
Flippancy aside, it is hard to find the AK-47 on Raygun's site. That's because it isen't there.
The AK-74M, however, is what you get, and is found on the page relating to the Kalashnikov 100/103 series:
http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearm...ult/ak1013.html
The one you get is the AK-74M
Long Rifles: SVD


Of course, it should be mentioned that these are the carry pieces you'll be issued to operate with under standard conditions. Western agents operating inside the Soviet bloc would probably be outfitted with the KGB's standard carry arms, to avoid arousing suspicion. (At least, any more suspicion than would be aroused by armed individuals inside the Soviet Union.) Likewise, a KGB agent operating outside the Soviet Union might be outfitted with more "neutral" firearms.
Austere Emancipator
I'm in a bit of a rush, so I'll keep this short:
"Beretta 92FS (Your choice of chambering)" The Beretta 92FS is only chambered in 9x19mm. You can get other Beretta pistols in other chamberings, like .380 ACP, in 1986, but the models 96 (.40 S&W) and 98 (9x21mm) do not exist yet.
"H&K P92" No such weapon exists. You probably mean the H&K P9S.
"MP5/10, MP5/40", "Steyer Scout", "Izhmash Bizon" None of these existed in 1986.
ShadowDragon8685
Berette 92FS - fixed
P92 was a typo - fixed


About the MP5, Scout, and Bizon - damnit. I really need a timeline of what was available when.

(The Bizon fooled me because it looks so damned much like it came from the 1960s. >_<)

Urgh. I wish there was a convienant list of when the models came out. What should I probably issue to them, then? >_<

Shrike30
My memory's a bit vague, but I'm under the impression that 10mm was developed around 1990, with .40 S&W being essentially a toned-down 10mm (because people didn't like the recoil/blast from the full power 10mm) that developed shortly thereafter. If you look up the date (I would, were I not at work), that'd make it pretty clear if .40 and 10mm weapons were available wink.gif

If you want to issue SMGs to the Brits, I'd go with the 9mm H&K MP5 (heavily in use by the SAS at that time)/MP5-SD/MP5-K or the Sterling (go nationalism!).
Austere Emancipator
The 10mm came in 1991, the .40 S&W after that. Like I said, they were not around in 1986.

As for what to replace these guns with, I already suggested the Sterling L2A3 and gave stats for that -- that and the MP5 should serve nicely for British SMGs (as Shrike30 noted MP5Ks were around at the time, but MP5K PDWs weren't). You can use an Accuracy International L96 to replace the Steyr Scout, using the stats for an SSG PI except that it weighs 6.8kg empty. The Soviets don't need SMGs, they aren't very big on them these days, just give them AKS-74Us. Or you can give the odd Soviet grunt a PPSh-41 -- use the stats for a Bizon 2-07, except Ammo 35 or 71, Conceal 2, Weight 3.5kg empty, Cost dirt cheap.
ShadowDragon8685
The AKS-74U: The Soviet Union's way of saying "Is this wimpy enough to be a submachine gun, and strong enough not to make our men laugh and break it by sneezing?"

Yeah, they have the ASK-74U. The PPSH, as I know it from playing CoD and CoD: AO, and CoD2, is just the rock and win. If your goal is portable surpressive fire on par with an LMG. It's also not bad at room-to-room, but you better pull out your Mosin-Nagant for the long-range work, unless you literally have ammo you want to burn.

MP5-SD and MP5-K? Sounds good for the Brits. What about the MP5-N and MP5 A series for the yanks?
Austere Emancipator
The AKS-74U is quite robust and reliable, and as Raygun's page on it points out it's designed for a particular role, very similar to what the FN P90 was designed for. If I did not expect to have to fight in confined spaces, I'd definitely pick an AK-74 over it, of course.

The PPSh-41 is definitely good for spraying a lot of lead at the general direction of the enemy. By 1986 they'd mostly be found in the hands of second-line and non-combat units.

Both the UK and the US should mostly employ MP5A2-A5s, with a mix of MP5Ks (all, except PDWs) and MP5SDs (all) for when additional concealability or stealth is required. MP5Ns could certainly be found in use by US operators, since it was widely used by the SEALs.
EVLTIM
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
The 10mm came in 1991, the .40 S&W after that. Like I said, they were not around in 1986.

As for what to replace these guns with, I already suggested the Sterling L2A3 and gave stats for that -- that and the MP5 should serve nicely for British SMGs (as Shrike30 noted MP5Ks were around at the time, but MP5K PDWs weren't). You can use an Accuracy International L96 to replace the Steyr Scout, using the stats for an SSG PI except that it weighs 6.8kg empty. The Soviets don't need SMGs, they aren't very big on them these days, just give them AKS-74Us. Or you can give the odd Soviet grunt a PPSh-41 -- use the stats for a Bizon 2-07, except Ammo 35 or 71, Conceal 2, Weight 3.5kg empty, Cost dirt cheap.

Hello . Miami Vice ?

DJ Had a Brenn Ten in the first season.

10mm was developed back in 83 but the FBI didn't latch on until 91

Here check this out

10mm
Austere Emancipator
I was talking about the MP5/10 and the MP5/40, in case you haven't been following the rest of the discussion.
EVLTIM
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
I was talking about the MP5/10 and the MP5/40, in case you haven't been following the rest of the discussion.

Ahh . My bad it read like you where saying the cartridge didn't exist.
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