Full Version: Shadowrun Screenplay Project
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| It only takes one explanatory scene and a couple of flashbacks to explain that magic isn't new, and that some creatures (elves and dragons) lived through the downtime, plotting and scheming the whole time. |
You only think that because you have played Shadowrun. Trust me when I say, it is to complicated. Now, if there were a sequal...
The main story has to be the characters. It has to be character sentric. If people like the characters they will become interested in the background. You can have the greatest back ground in the world, but if no one likes the characters...
I was thinking we should have a scene in which the universe is introduced. LOTR had it, Serenity had it, and Star Wars had the scrolling paragraphs. I think that's in order.
When done right, a prologue is awesome. Like you said. But that is only one way of introducing it. I hesitate to do something like that. For one it takes time away from your main characters. SR doesn't have any recognizable history to support it either. Serenity had Firefly, Starwars has hada bazillion movies, LotR had best selling books.
So far the idea is to use the supporting character (the scientist) to introduce the world to the viewer. They (the audience) learn things as she learns things.
However, either way could be very cool. Any ideas for an opening scene (no more than two minutes) to describe the universe to the audience?
We are also still in need of a plot and main characters... which I think should be done before any of this.
So far the idea is to use the supporting character (the scientist) to introduce the world to the viewer. They (the audience) learn things as she learns things.
However, either way could be very cool. Any ideas for an opening scene (no more than two minutes) to describe the universe to the audience?
We are also still in need of a plot and main characters... which I think should be done before any of this.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| You only think that because you have played Shadowrun. Trust me when I say, it is to complicated. Now, if there were a sequal... |
I've read precious little about Immortal Elves. Basically what I know about them (and what the audience would need to know about them) is that they've been around a really long time and are powerful. That is not a hard concept to portray.
Plot:
extraction gets main character into runner team
retrieval squad comes to hideout to retrieve main character, with orders to kill him if they can't capture him. this really pisses off the main character
you take it from there, I've got a 4 year old chanting in my ear.
extraction gets main character into runner team
retrieval squad comes to hideout to retrieve main character, with orders to kill him if they can't capture him. this really pisses off the main character
you take it from there, I've got a 4 year old chanting in my ear.
| QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 3 2006, 12:01 PM) |
| Plot: extraction gets main character into runner team retrieval squad comes to hideout to retrieve main character, with orders to kill him if they can't capture him. this really pisses off the main character you take it from there, I've got a 4 year old chanting in my ear. |
hehe! Yeah I have a couple of kids to. Makes finding time to write... interesting. Luckily they are napping at the moment.
Alas that really isn't a plot. There has to be a hidden reason why they are extracting her. One the runners don't know about. Why is the hit team trying to kill her? What do the runners do about it and why? DO they help her? turn her over? Why?
Hence the "take it from there." 
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| I've read precious little about Immortal Elves. Basically what I know about them (and what the audience would need to know about them) is that they've been around a really long time and are powerful. That is not a hard concept to portray. |
You mean after we explain about the 4th world? And where elves have been for the last 5000 years and why no one noticed people with pointed ears walking around? Unless the script was going to be centered around the IE story, there would be no point in mentioning it. Just like dragons, unless the focus is going to involve one of the greats, there is no point in mentioning it. It will just take up space that could be gong to telling the story.
Think of this. Have you ever watched a movie where a concept is introduced in the first act and then never mentioned again? It is really annoying. You end up (consciously or not) looking for that concept to re-appear.
Alfred Hitchcock said that if you show the knife in the first act, you better use it in the third.
If the story isn't going to be about IE's then were better of not mentioning them. Any ideas for an IE story?
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| If the story isn't going to be about IE's then were better of not mentioning them. Any ideas for an IE story? |
Not with a kid chanting in my ear, but they make as good a "powerful force for evil" as a dragon, and are easier to accept as being members of society. The movie itself requires neither dragons nor immortal elves. I'm just saying that if a good plot involving IEs comes along, it shouldn't be tossed aside because of a perceived difficulty in explaining IEs.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| You mean after we explain. . . .why no one noticed people with pointed ears walking around? |
Oh my God, the hatters are in on it!
But if you have dragons manipulating things, that's something outright weird. Having dragons manipulate things is somehow less alien than people who don't age.
| QUOTE (emo samurai) |
| But if you have dragons manipulating things, that's something outright weird. Having dragons manipulate things is somehow less alien than people who don't age. |
Que? No comprende.
How are dragons less weird then elves? Dragons manipulating things for the last few thousand years is more weird, because they'd have a harder time hiding themselves then IEs would.
Its not about weird, it is about a tight story. You don't mention any thing that is not relavent to the story. So unless the main story is about IE's or Dragon, then it is better off not to have them.
I would never discount a story out of hand. If someone has a plot that involves IE's and is good, lets here it. Otherwise I would like to stick to a more traditional Shadowrun storyline.
I would never discount a story out of hand. If someone has a plot that involves IE's and is good, lets here it. Otherwise I would like to stick to a more traditional Shadowrun storyline.
IEs are totally part of the conspiracy to make Earthdawn the ad hoc progenitor of SR. They are almost never mentioned prominently and featured in few of the novels. One example of their time in the limelight would be the "Worlds Without End" novel, which is coincidentally the name of a GI Joe two-part episode that featured more captivating writing. That's just my opinion, I could be right.
Dragons, on the other hand, would rock ina sequel, but as far as the first movie it is very out there. I've only ever included Dragons on my runs once and that was at the behest of the Mercurial module. A more modern example might be the survival of the fittest module, but overall it lacks that personal touch I would want to see. Dragons frack with you cause you're too stupid to say no, not because you're attached to the reasons they would have you risk.
I think we're still dwelling along the lines of good hooks and not good plots. Continuing to say we need a tight story does keep us on track, just doesn't get us anywhere.
I would really like to reiterate my earlier suggestion of some sort of familiar relationship between the extractee and the interested parties of the, as yet undefine, evil byzantine conspiracy. As far as getting the runners in deeper, I would bring up the idea that perhaps we could try no getting too attached and instead make it a habit to have Shadowrun teams as a more transient component of the story. There would be a certain justice to the concept of anonymity if we have the real main characters use several teams to accomplish their goals. In this case, the family relation seeking the extractee would be the primary character. I would suggest that, for some sort of prologue, we would back up a bit in the story so we could still make first introductions with the main characters.
We should evalutate the first idea before I develop that anymore.
Dragons, on the other hand, would rock ina sequel, but as far as the first movie it is very out there. I've only ever included Dragons on my runs once and that was at the behest of the Mercurial module. A more modern example might be the survival of the fittest module, but overall it lacks that personal touch I would want to see. Dragons frack with you cause you're too stupid to say no, not because you're attached to the reasons they would have you risk.
I think we're still dwelling along the lines of good hooks and not good plots. Continuing to say we need a tight story does keep us on track, just doesn't get us anywhere.
I would really like to reiterate my earlier suggestion of some sort of familiar relationship between the extractee and the interested parties of the, as yet undefine, evil byzantine conspiracy. As far as getting the runners in deeper, I would bring up the idea that perhaps we could try no getting too attached and instead make it a habit to have Shadowrun teams as a more transient component of the story. There would be a certain justice to the concept of anonymity if we have the real main characters use several teams to accomplish their goals. In this case, the family relation seeking the extractee would be the primary character. I would suggest that, for some sort of prologue, we would back up a bit in the story so we could still make first introductions with the main characters.
We should evalutate the first idea before I develop that anymore.
This is an idea I had earlier, it makes for a good hook but still needs to be fille dout.
| QUOTE |
| She has the genetic key to goblinization… she can reverse it? Or control it? So why kidnap her? They want to keep it for themselves… to create an army of orcs, or sell it to the highest bidder. Maybe she really is being extracted, but against her will, and everyone wants her. Ok were getting there. Runners are hired to extract a scientist. They get to the lab and she isn’t a willing extraction (they were told she was). They rough her up and get her out. She pleads her case to them, they ignore her. They set up for the exchange, but it is a double cross. They get out but now what? Sell her, get her somewhere no one can touch her? She is an elf… Portland? |
Yeah... maybe have a very human main character who has to deal with all sorts of crazy people to do his work. 2xs was probably the best Shadowrun book ever, and a runner team wasn't really hired until the end. It was mostly him talking to 4 or 5 contacts and getting shot at until he paid out his life savings to have his sister rescued.
| QUOTE |
| a very human main character who has to deal with all sorts of crazy people to do his work |
crazy people == Shadowrunners then yeah, that's something
Shadow's "goblinzation cure" idea is very similar to the novel "Changeling" and emo has already explicitly mentioned the novel "2XS". For anyone who may not know, you can get a review/summary of these books @
http://www.wiredreflexes.com/sr/shadowrun/...views/index.php
If we were to pursue the "changeling"-type conspiracy, it could involve some retro-virus developed on the part of a mega-corp that relates to metahumanity. The brother/sister team could be in the know about it and enlisting Shadowrun teams to bring down the system. The teams of runners they hire could be used for several tasks:
1) Attacks against centers of development for the retro-virusvirus
1a) Digital expunging of the research, an important pursuit
1b) Assassinations against scientists designing the virus
2) "Fundraisers" to hire more teams by doing everything from stealing organs to robbing digital banks
3) Direct protection. I would recommend there be a "home team" that the brother and sister endure under their protection. They could be highly motivated for payback, but perhaps some member(s) could try to stab them in the back part way through ("we're goin for a nice shuttle ride...")
One possible point to tie up the whole thing:
The sister mage (or brother? There is a bit of a back and forth about their genders) could have some sort of magic-driven expertise in the field of genetics. The brother could be "some suit" to start, but then turn out to be a shadowrunner or something like that (ex-company man is the general term). The brother could need the sister to change the retro-virus into some sort of contagious vaccine that, if released in the population, would provide immunity against the planned "evil" retro-virus (that could obviously involve some of the possibilities of SURGE mentioned on page 29 or Year of the Comet for those keeping score).
Maybe you could involve Humanis in it? There could be a Humanis suit that hates trolls and orks and has a campaign by the Draco Foundation to distribute free vaccinations infiltrated by vials of a troll/ork specific virus instead of vaccine.
The general presentation of Humanis doesn't include suits. They would probably be a good passing reference and a great visual.
I would have wanted to get some sort of B plot or extra mileage in our choice for the corp. Sure, humanis would have a good reason for this virus, but that would be putting a lot of plot emphasis on metahumans in shadowrun. I think we could work something out. Currently we have good vehicle for explaining races and race relations in SR through the virus concept, we should consider trying to squeeze out some face time for corp politics and the Matrix.
It might work well of it was a corp suit with anti-meta values using Humanis Policlubbers as mook soldiers as part of his evil conspiracy. (What's the more racist Japanese corp in your opinion? Start with them). That could give some corp politics time.
To involve the matrix, the team could find out that an AI is involved. My early bet would be Mirage, he's setup in Matrix to have a fairly complex understanding of the value of life and could be the informant who first starts the ball rolling on the brother (or whoever has the mage extracted, still no resolution. I vote sister as the mage just because magic is generally attributed as a female attribute in media)
I would have wanted to get some sort of B plot or extra mileage in our choice for the corp. Sure, humanis would have a good reason for this virus, but that would be putting a lot of plot emphasis on metahumans in shadowrun. I think we could work something out. Currently we have good vehicle for explaining races and race relations in SR through the virus concept, we should consider trying to squeeze out some face time for corp politics and the Matrix.
It might work well of it was a corp suit with anti-meta values using Humanis Policlubbers as mook soldiers as part of his evil conspiracy. (What's the more racist Japanese corp in your opinion? Start with them). That could give some corp politics time.
To involve the matrix, the team could find out that an AI is involved. My early bet would be Mirage, he's setup in Matrix to have a fairly complex understanding of the value of life and could be the informant who first starts the ball rolling on the brother (or whoever has the mage extracted, still no resolution. I vote sister as the mage just because magic is generally attributed as a female attribute in media)
| QUOTE |
| The general presentation of Humanis doesn't include suits. |
Huh?
Dude, they're like the modern-day Republican party, only eviler. In fact, suits are their main power base.
Know what would be an awesome scene? DRAGON RAMPAGE! Or at least have one eat somebody.
Know what would be an awesome scene? DRAGON RAMPAGE! Or at least have one eat somebody.
First, let me say that you guys continue to excel at analyzing the trivial. While you are entitled to your opinion, please include with it a meaningful insight or opinion on the project at large, otherwise reconsider posting until you have one.
I'm not saying suits down't attend Humanis meetings or are active in its administration (do you think bigoted hicks could run their own club?) Virtually no members are turning a profit at being in the policlub. They are private citizens participating in a community group. Framing the suit as a "Humanis Suit" would be mishandling. Calling him an "Ares Suit with Humanis ties" is an example of what I suggested.
Also, most of the warm bodies at Humanis meetings are not turning high profits in a boardroom. Auburn and Snohomish are most quickly associated with Humanis, not Downtown or Bellevue.
Please tell me you read more than those 8 words in my prior post.
I'm not saying suits down't attend Humanis meetings or are active in its administration (do you think bigoted hicks could run their own club?) Virtually no members are turning a profit at being in the policlub. They are private citizens participating in a community group. Framing the suit as a "Humanis Suit" would be mishandling. Calling him an "Ares Suit with Humanis ties" is an example of what I suggested.
Also, most of the warm bodies at Humanis meetings are not turning high profits in a boardroom. Auburn and Snohomish are most quickly associated with Humanis, not Downtown or Bellevue.
Please tell me you read more than those 8 words in my prior post.
So that distinction isn't trivial?
I know that those Humanis suits are big in business; hence their ability to manipulate the government. That doesn't mean I can't call them Humanis suits, and they would make a good adversary, since you insist on discounting the IE's and dragons.
I know that those Humanis suits are big in business; hence their ability to manipulate the government. That doesn't mean I can't call them Humanis suits, and they would make a good adversary, since you insist on discounting the IE's and dragons.
Ok...
The AARP has lobbiests too (over 1 Billion dollars worth), would you say their 'general presentation' is that of suited political moguls? Would you want them represented in a movie by an "AARP suit".
If we did go with a race retrovirus, we could bring Humanis in through Kenneth Brackhaven. If it was THE humanis suit instead of A humanis suit, I could hang with that. He was supposed to have been "cured" of goblinization. I would recommend having a financial-backer in a corp, someone organizaing R&D expertise to make the virus happen, then Brackhaven as the mook general covering him through the Shadows. Could go as far as have the corp find out in the end and want both dead.
Humanis affiliated executive would be far more workable than Dragons of IEs. IEs and Dragons are immensely rare (~2 dozen IEs, ~1 dozen great dragons). You know that we could come up something easier to express and more representative of the world (I would also bring up that non-shapeshifted dragons cannot speak english. Doesn't bode well for exposition). I could see breaking the normal rate of metahumans, or the normal survivability of an SR team, or even accept th whimsy of a main character changing sides for little reason, but thinking a dragon will do anything other than drown their enemies in a hamburger-like substance made entirely of shadowrunners is too far out there.
The AARP has lobbiests too (over 1 Billion dollars worth), would you say their 'general presentation' is that of suited political moguls? Would you want them represented in a movie by an "AARP suit".
If we did go with a race retrovirus, we could bring Humanis in through Kenneth Brackhaven. If it was THE humanis suit instead of A humanis suit, I could hang with that. He was supposed to have been "cured" of goblinization. I would recommend having a financial-backer in a corp, someone organizaing R&D expertise to make the virus happen, then Brackhaven as the mook general covering him through the Shadows. Could go as far as have the corp find out in the end and want both dead.
Humanis affiliated executive would be far more workable than Dragons of IEs. IEs and Dragons are immensely rare (~2 dozen IEs, ~1 dozen great dragons). You know that we could come up something easier to express and more representative of the world (I would also bring up that non-shapeshifted dragons cannot speak english. Doesn't bode well for exposition). I could see breaking the normal rate of metahumans, or the normal survivability of an SR team, or even accept th whimsy of a main character changing sides for little reason, but thinking a dragon will do anything other than drown their enemies in a hamburger-like substance made entirely of shadowrunners is too far out there.
Again, unless someone has a story line that directly involves dragons or IE's then I think we should focus on the matter at hand. Fleshing out the current concept.
A movie about Shadowrun the game, should be just that, a movie about Shadowrunners. Now I have just gotten back from watching MI3, and I tell you this, it was the perfect Shadowrun movie. It had hackers, riggers, sams, etc. It was awesome. I recommend anyone interested in making any film to go see JJ Abrams masterpiece.
Back on track, lets focus the movie on Shadowrunners, lets focus the plot on 1 Shadowrun team. The politics and world of SR can come into play, but lets do it through the eyes of the main characters.
A movie about Shadowrun the game, should be just that, a movie about Shadowrunners. Now I have just gotten back from watching MI3, and I tell you this, it was the perfect Shadowrun movie. It had hackers, riggers, sams, etc. It was awesome. I recommend anyone interested in making any film to go see JJ Abrams masterpiece.
Back on track, lets focus the movie on Shadowrunners, lets focus the plot on 1 Shadowrun team. The politics and world of SR can come into play, but lets do it through the eyes of the main characters.
I haven't had chance to read all the way through this topic, but an alternative possibility for explaining magic is to have an early (very early) scene with someone doing normal day to day things with the trid on in the background, or something like that. Have a documentary on at the moment, with a brief snippet about the existance of magic, or something else on that does the job equally. This might let you explain magic without making it too obvious. Naturaslly the volume would have to be balanced such that the trid is audible without strain... maybe have the character asleep on the sofa or something instead, or have them walkin with a cup of coffee and sit down, pause for a minute contemplating the documentary shake their head then flick it off or onto another channel.
Maybe phys ads would work well for the show of ffactor too... or even a mystic adept, best of both worlds. As for metas, I guess the cliche is hot Elven women (especially hot Elven women as mages)... An Ork in the main team wouldn't hurt, as long as they were more human looking than average (like the quality in SR4 core rules). I could see the main character as a B&E type, maybe easy on the obvious cyber to not make him too odd. A scene showing the output from a smartlink would be nice too. If you want mainstream there's every possibility that action would help, but if the team were a bunch of "boom boom merchants" it would be rather hollow even to the mainstream.
Maybe phys ads would work well for the show of ffactor too... or even a mystic adept, best of both worlds. As for metas, I guess the cliche is hot Elven women (especially hot Elven women as mages)... An Ork in the main team wouldn't hurt, as long as they were more human looking than average (like the quality in SR4 core rules). I could see the main character as a B&E type, maybe easy on the obvious cyber to not make him too odd. A scene showing the output from a smartlink would be nice too. If you want mainstream there's every possibility that action would help, but if the team were a bunch of "boom boom merchants" it would be rather hollow even to the mainstream.
Hey all,
I hope you don’t mind me giving my 2 cents on the matter.
All in all I think the first real SR movie should be very simple. It should only introduce the audience to the SR universe with a “simple” story. This approach allows people to better relate to the world.
I think you should tell the story as if it were as real as possible. The prologue should be the only place that you tell the audience the history of SR universe.
I personally think that it is a bad idea to try to explain to the audience everything. If you make the movie interesting and cool enough, you can get anyway with explaining less.
Pick two maybe three aspects of SR to focus on. For example in SR some things people might have problems relating to would be
Magic : I think the more real you make magic the better. Use LOTRS as an example.
Matrix : Can you think of any movies that did a good job showing this? Personally I think SR4 is a much better universe to show of matrix, but I won't go there now.
Rigging : I think it would be challenging to make this look cool, especially from an actor POV.
For example watch Firefly and try to imagine Wash as a rigger. Notice how many cool interactions with the crew are lost. A rigger may be too efficient for a principle character.
On the other hand a vehicle chase is almost required ... even though I think they are too Hollywood cliché.
Critters : Bad idea. If you are going to introduce a critter you have to be careful or at best you are going to become typical Sci Channel quality movie. Personally I don't think there should be any critters ... there is already enough to do without adding a monster to it.
Eralston
I hope you don’t mind me giving my 2 cents on the matter.
All in all I think the first real SR movie should be very simple. It should only introduce the audience to the SR universe with a “simple” story. This approach allows people to better relate to the world.
I think you should tell the story as if it were as real as possible. The prologue should be the only place that you tell the audience the history of SR universe.
I personally think that it is a bad idea to try to explain to the audience everything. If you make the movie interesting and cool enough, you can get anyway with explaining less.
Pick two maybe three aspects of SR to focus on. For example in SR some things people might have problems relating to would be
Magic : I think the more real you make magic the better. Use LOTRS as an example.
Matrix : Can you think of any movies that did a good job showing this? Personally I think SR4 is a much better universe to show of matrix, but I won't go there now.
Rigging : I think it would be challenging to make this look cool, especially from an actor POV.
For example watch Firefly and try to imagine Wash as a rigger. Notice how many cool interactions with the crew are lost. A rigger may be too efficient for a principle character.
On the other hand a vehicle chase is almost required ... even though I think they are too Hollywood cliché.
Critters : Bad idea. If you are going to introduce a critter you have to be careful or at best you are going to become typical Sci Channel quality movie. Personally I don't think there should be any critters ... there is already enough to do without adding a monster to it.
Eralston
| QUOTE |
| Human lead character is a total necessity. |
I agreed. Assuming you want to make a movie that appeals to everyone. This approach is not a cop out, but a wise one to help the audience get into the story. As soon as you see your protagonist with tusks, you are going to lose people.
Emo Samuri
| QUOTE |
| Also, we need some very exotic characters who push the boundaries of the universe We have to make sure that the SR universe is genuinely exotic. |
There is no need to stress this at all, because there is already enough going on. As long as you stay true to the spirit of SR, it WILL be exotic to general audience.
James McMurray
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The more mainstream you make a movie the more you can expect it to earn. |
It goes deeper than making money. It is about making something that everyone can enjoy. Again look at the LOTRS ... it is a extremely geeky movie and there were a lot of changes to make it more "mainstream", but people loved it anyway.
Eralston
| QUOTE |
3) We will present everything aspect of SR we can, but to attain goals 2 and 3 it must be grounded in movie convention and proven methods |
I COMPLETELY disagree! Making a good movie is like making soup. You can't add everything in the cupboard and expert it to be good.
Of course I am not implying you guys would just throw stuff in without thinking. Making a movie is an organic process. Each thing you add changes the things added before it. You must be EXTREMELY careful with adding new elements. Don't just add cool stuff and expect it to improve things. Also in regards to "movie convention and proven methods", don't make that a rule. Be knowledgeable about the conventions and methods if you can, but most importantly go with you gut.
Also ALWAYS be honest in regards to the quality of what you are doing. If you don't think it is good, you really need to consider changing or removing it. This is also a good reason to make the story VERY simple. The more you add, the more difficult it will be to adjust. On top of that editing it will take FOREVER.
No office Eralston, but your movie suffered this fatal flaw. You had soo much you wanted to tell. That it blinded you from telling a simpler and more effective story.
Less would have been more.
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| We want something primarily representing the world as it is somewhere between 2060 and 2070 |
I think the movie should be as current as possible (post-2070)... it kills me to say that, but I think it is for the best if you really want to have a future. I know this is the direction I am pushing the movie I am working on.
| QUOTE |
| A definite sub-rule to this would be recognizing that Elves make for better ready companions to main characters than trolls/orks |
Agreed. I think the best combo is a human male protagonist with female elf partner ... not romantic! Also the female character needs to be just as strong in character, as the protagonist.
I think that Mel and Zoe from Firefly is a good example of what I am talking about. They have a strong working relationship that fosters intimacy.
The audience will automatically think romantic even if nothing supports it.
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Maybe have a normal guy get caught up with a band of shadowrunners. Wait, they did that with the first trilogy of novels... |
Actually I think "Never Deal with a Dragon" has some great elements to it.
The idea that the protagonist isn't a shadowrunner from the start is good one.
ChuckRozool
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Office Space 2060 |
I mean no offense, but that sounds bad and I love Office Space.
FanGirl
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I imagine the hero starting out like most of us SR fans: he's a normal, average guy who mainly aspires to success in his chosen field. Sometime he indulges in fantasies about living the glamorous and exciting life of a rogue, but he just doesn't think that such a thing is possible for him--that is, until he's suddenly plunged into the world of the shadows. Of course, he's initially terrified of these dangerous criminals who are holding him prisoner (who wouldn't be?) but he's also fascinated by them at the same time. Ultimately, however, his terror weakens and his fascination wins out, leading him to defect from the corp to live out his wildest dreams. |
One word ... Neo and I mean that in a good way.
emo samurai
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The only thing we can control is how good the thing we make is. I think we should drop the whole "marketing research says |
Agreed, but not for the same reasons. Again I think being mindful of the general audience is not a bad thing. On the other hand you shouldn’t compromise the core of your work, just to appease the average person.
ChuckRozool
| QUOTE |
A friend and I are actually trying to come up with a story |
I wish you all the luck in the world. A co-worker and I are going to do the same. He is a low budget film-maker and has the experience. I am helping him learn about the SR universe, he really likes the idea.
| QUOTE |
guess a total of 5 artist |
If you are willing to pay money, I know plenty of professional artists and animators.
Shadow
| QUOTE |
1 Supporting (Possible Love Interest)) |
Again I mean no offense, but stay away from the love interest part. While I think a STRONG love story element is very important, be careful not to be cliché with it.
For example don't do
Male protagonist with female partner ... i.e. insert love interest
On the other hand it would be kind of cool to have a marriage couple, but that is too mature for the target audience.
Seperate Tangent
Remember that just because you know an element of the story is not cliché, doesn’t mean other people will get it. It is extremely easy to overestimate your own ability to convey a story. Sometimes you need to tell more and other times less.
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I really like the extraction angle |
Yeah, I like the idea of opening the film with this to. Have a no-name shadowrun team extract the main character or better yet, someone close to him and he hunts them down ... you may or may not want to avoid this cliché "He then joins the rebels, because they really the good guys" angle.
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My goal (and Eralstons I think) is to write a screen play that is good enough that WK… |
As long as you are a realist with what you do, I fully support it.
Eralstion
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One thought would be we could center it narrowly pre-2060 |
Again isn’t' WK against pre2070 material? Just make sure you are not shooting yourselves in the foot before you start.
emo samurai
| QUOTE |
DRAGONS! MOTHERFUCKING DRAGONS!! |
It isn't a bad idea. Although I would only show a dragon during the prologue as you explain the basic nature of SR ... i.e. show the silhouette of a Great Dragon awakening. No words should direct your attention to the dragon, you just see it. No words are needed.
Shadow
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Or perhaps a voice on the com. |
Or better yet in the background of a scene you see the "Wyrm Talk Show" a tri video
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When done right, a prologue is awesome, like you said. But that is only one way of introducing it. I hesitate to do something like that. |
Unless you want to let the audience learn as you go, which could work. You need a good prologue.
Personally I think a prologue is the way to go.
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For one it takes time away from your main characters. |
This isn't a bad thing if it helps the audience get into the world ... which then makes introducing the main characters more effective.
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Serenity had Firefly, Starwars has hada bazillion movies, LotR had best selling books. |
I think you are showing your geek traits too strong here. Not everyone who went to see these movies saw/read early material.
For example
Serenity: I work with a LOT of sci geeks and a good number of them weren't familiar with Firefly at all.
Starwars: There are plenty of younger people who haven't seen the older films. How many people have actaully read the books?
LotR: This means jack to a movie audience. I personally love LOTRS, but never read the books.
On the other hand I already know all about the stories from audio books ... I bet you most of the people that saw the films, Never read the books.
The books don't matter, but they gave Peter Jackson a phenomenal material to work with.
Keep in mind that a LOT of people saw these films. A lot of people means you have a fairly generic audience.
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They (the audience) learn things as she learns things. |
This certainly worked for the Matrix movie, but I am not confidence that it would work for SR without a prologue. SR would be a far more difficult film to make comprehendible.
The Matrix film had ONE overall idea. SR could go in a lot more directions.
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However, either way could be very cool. Any ideas for an opening scene (no more than two minutes) |
Again don’t weigh yourself down with "proven methods" The prologue to Fellowship of the Ring was suppose to only be two minutes ... it is closer to 7 mins in the final cut. Imagine what would have happen if there wasn't a prologue...
SR may not be as rich as LOTRS, but to someone that doesn't know SR; it might as well be.
Again do what is best for the film and don't follow standards. The art dictates what needs to be done. This will help make the film feel fresh.
If you really study films I bet you will agree that many of the bad films, follow story telling standards that castrated the film. The really good films bend or even break move standards.
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there would be no point in mentioning it (Immortal Elves) |
I completely agree. There is no good way to do immortal elves and isn’t worth mentioning in a SR. If nothing else you run the risk of confusing people.
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Its not about weird, it is about a tight story. You don't mention any thing that is not relavent to the story. |
I completely agreed! However I still think a silhouette of a dragon in the prologue while talking about the past, is a great way to show magic in the word. The dragon wouldn’t be a character at all, just device to reinforced the fantastical element ... it of course needs to be done in a real way.
Tangent
All in all I think the movie should be about a guy who becomes a shadowrunner. At the beginning is a person we, as an 21 century audience can relate to. However through the course of the film, we like the main character become use to the shadows as our new life.
Much like FanGirl wrote about.
emo samurai
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Maybe you could involve Humanis in it? |
As much as like this idea, it would be wise to avoid a story with Racism elements. While you should elude to the fact that metahuman are the new minorites, don't dwell on it. Nothing makes people more uncomfortable then racism. Some flims make this their center point and still don't get it right.
It would be better not even to go there, because you will muddle with the final product. Remeber the soup analogy. Trust me on this one
You guys have some good ideas let us know if you want more opinions.
-Mardegun from Black Bird Studio
Can I work on your movie?
? Thanks for the offer, but it is still to early. Why do you ask anyway?
Ok, it's time for a little recap of consensus. I hope for this to be the last tangent on quality assurance before actually sorting out story ideas. We have had a few moments of taking ideas and running with them, let's gear up for that
Do we all agree that...
1) Stories are organic
2) Demand of the organic story is the primary decision criteria on content (we should not be saying "we need a dragon" we should be asking if our "current story needs a dragon"). Any piecemeal suggestions are to be directed to the pitch your snippet thread
3) Demand of the organic story is primary decision criteria on characters
Thinking on those points, think on our current story idea
1) Do we need the extraction, is there another starting point? Justify the extraction
2) Concerning the "changeling" plot, are we trying to "cure" all metas or kill all metas? What is more terrible, what offers the most possibility, what offers the best possibility?
3) If we are telling the story from an outside viewpoint, how are we to handle the runners?
There is a lot more in this thread thus far, but try it in chunks
Do we all agree that...
1) Stories are organic
2) Demand of the organic story is the primary decision criteria on content (we should not be saying "we need a dragon" we should be asking if our "current story needs a dragon"). Any piecemeal suggestions are to be directed to the pitch your snippet thread
3) Demand of the organic story is primary decision criteria on characters
Thinking on those points, think on our current story idea
1) Do we need the extraction, is there another starting point? Justify the extraction
2) Concerning the "changeling" plot, are we trying to "cure" all metas or kill all metas? What is more terrible, what offers the most possibility, what offers the best possibility?
3) If we are telling the story from an outside viewpoint, how are we to handle the runners?
There is a lot more in this thread thus far, but try it in chunks
Wow I really liked your ideas Mard and I agree with most of them. The one thing I have to stress (again) is that we are not making a movie. We are writing a screen play. There is a huge difference.
I totally agree that we should keep it simple, and keep it as close to SR as possible. So the story will be about Shadowrunners, one team to be exact. A story centered around the extraction of an important scientist will be involved in the central theme of the story. The team will have the male protagonist, and the extractee will be the female protagonist. The lead character will be Human (possibly an Elf) and the female character will be human.
I just watched MI3 and I am really stoked about the way JJ used a Mcguffin (think Ronin and the case). I think that could really work here for what the scientist has researched.
I have been giving this a lot of thought since we started this thread and I am really excited about the possibility of what we could all accomplish. So let us keep it moving forward!!
I totally agree that we should keep it simple, and keep it as close to SR as possible. So the story will be about Shadowrunners, one team to be exact. A story centered around the extraction of an important scientist will be involved in the central theme of the story. The team will have the male protagonist, and the extractee will be the female protagonist. The lead character will be Human (possibly an Elf) and the female character will be human.
I just watched MI3 and I am really stoked about the way JJ used a Mcguffin (think Ronin and the case). I think that could really work here for what the scientist has researched.
I have been giving this a lot of thought since we started this thread and I am really excited about the possibility of what we could all accomplish. So let us keep it moving forward!!
Shadow
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| Wow I really liked your ideas Mard... |
Thanks for the complement.
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| We are writing a screen play. There is a huge difference. |
Agreed
<Tangent1>
As I wrote to Eralstion in an email I think a screenplay is not enough. I am a bit of a realist on this subject. I just have a gut feeling that even a great screenplay won’t mean anything to WK.
I doubt if they would even read it. This means you will have to promote the screenplay yourself … are you ready to do this? Do you know how to? Even if you do, what about licensing rights?
These kinds of questions are important if you don’t want to waste your time … unless the creative process is the reward.
</Tangent1>
<Tangent2>
For example the story and eventual screen play I am working on will not be grandiose at all or ideal. In fact this project will only be a promotional thing for the real project later. Because as you said none of us here can sponsor a “real” movie.
A screenplay is more or less an idea. Ideas are a dime a dozen, which is why you need to make something cool. I strongly believe that this the only way you are going to make this thing happen.
While this first movie won’t be a “real” movie, it will be a low budget one. My partner has the experience, contacts and some equipment to make this happen. I am also lucky in that I have co-workers who are great artists and animators. I could probably convince them to do some probono work … which will give us the ability to do some CG work …maybe <fingers crossed>.
In any case while this may not be ideal, it will be a stepping stone to something real later. We also have to be extremely realistic and take in considerations our resources.
For example we need to look at our available actors and craft a story that will suit their strengths and none of their weakness. We need to do this for every aspect of the process . While our limitations will not completely dictated the spirit of the story, you need to be aware of it so you don’t screw yourself … believe me it is really easy to craft a story that you didn’t realized relied on a critical element. It turns out that you have no way to do this element in a realist way with quality.
Another example if we can’t rent enough lights. If this happens which it probably will, we can’t simulate daytime scenes … which will be a pain, because our only available time will be at night. We both have full time jobs that need us right now.
Even though we are only doing a low budget film, we can’t use a screen play from someone else.
I bet this has similarities to real movies. Even the blockbuster films like Spiderman or LOTRS had real world constraints that affected the film. Although in this case the decisions for real films as more to do with self imposed limitations, than RL ones, on the creative direction.
</Tangent2>
<Tangent Last one promise>
Here is a GREAT video that shows the stupidly of Hollywood … assuming you believe Kevin Smiths Story.
Kevin Smith about talk Superman
</Shut the F@#$ up already …>
In any case I have also talked to Eralstion about this kind of stuff, so if you want more of my opinions just ask him.
All in all I will be there if you want more opinions … like you need more.
Yeah, anyone reading this would appreciate some of the stuff in that Kevin Smith clip
This thread may end soon, I think we're going to move into a sprint developing an outline. We'll start another thread to intro that and pull it apart
This thread may end soon, I think we're going to move into a sprint developing an outline. We'll start another thread to intro that and pull it apart
Well I disagree about a screen play just being an idea. As for trying to get the rights to an SR movie... it would probably be in a the 100 grand range to secure. And no production company will even talk to you if you don't have the rights.
Writing the best screen play possible, with the best story and compelling characters is the way I chose to go. If WK never reads it, fine. But I have written it. I said in the beginning, we are not making a movie, we're writing a screen play.
Writing the best screen play possible, with the best story and compelling characters is the way I chose to go. If WK never reads it, fine. But I have written it. I said in the beginning, we are not making a movie, we're writing a screen play.
There's one example of a dumbass with a bunch of executives to ball-less to stand up to him, rather than "everyone in Hollywood is stupid." Which sounds like the mean for Hollywood.
This movie definitely needs a giant spider.
The fiercest predator in the Awakened kingdom.
And is Hollywood full of crazy/stupid people, or is it just full of a bunch of executives and artists afraid of a few powerful crazy, stupid people?
And is Hollywood full of crazy/stupid people, or is it just full of a bunch of executives and artists afraid of a few powerful crazy, stupid people?
The entire world is full of crazy/stupid people. The ones that make it big in Hollywood are the ones that get a chance to show the world that their craziness/stupidity is the same as everyone else's.
For example: we all (at least us crazy/stupids) know that robots and spiders are amazingly awesome (to steal from your vocabulary, and mine as a kid). Therefor, anyone with the stones to put a giant robotic spider in a movie about the Wild Wild West is obviously a creative genius.
For example: we all (at least us crazy/stupids) know that robots and spiders are amazingly awesome (to steal from your vocabulary, and mine as a kid). Therefor, anyone with the stones to put a giant robotic spider in a movie about the Wild Wild West is obviously a creative genius.
My apologies Shadow for minimizing the role of a screenplay. I come from a different media that has some basic similarities. In my experience while the initial design is crucial, it changes completely by the time all is done.
I am just looking ahead from my own POV, which ultimately has nothing to do with you.
I am just looking ahead from my own POV, which ultimately has nothing to do with you.
Well you are probably used to working ona project from the beginign to the end. Screen writing is different. The writers have control of only the screenplay (there are rare exceptions). Once it is purchased it is in the domain of the director. There are a few writer/directors but they are rare.
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