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Stormdrake
The below is something a character wants to create for himself because he is getting paranoid about the other shoe dropping. I like the concept and in RL have seen "some" examples of refitted trawlers. Not cheap by any means but then what is in this game?

Fishing trawler

Description:

The “Laughing Nymph” is a Mahasagar's 52' Combination/Outrigger Trawler of 16-21 day fishing voyage capability. The outward appearance of the vessel bespeaks a lifetime spent on the high sea. This “appears” to be a working trawler from the last century that has been scroupesly maintained. In other words it looks like any other small, family fishing vessel in the harbor from the outside. On the inside its a different matter. Both the Fishhold and crew accommodations have been removed and remodeled. The Fishhold and crew accommodations have been replaced with the equivalence of a medium sized apartment designed for 2 or possibly three inhabitants. All electronics have been upgraded and a computer system has been installed.

Statistics:

Basic Specifications:

Length: 52'
Beam: 17'
Displacement: 34 m.tons(empty), 58 m.tons(fully loaded)
Fuel oil cap: 16 KL
Freshwater cap: 8 KL
Winch: Triple drum mechanical/hydraulic drive

Crew accommodation:
for two to three (Medium life style size and accommodations)

Electronic equipment:
includes Radar, Sonar, Satellite uplink-phone/communication, GPS and weather doppler. The vessel is fully automated so that one person can safely crew it for extended trips (16 to 21 days duration)

Computer:
Green - 5 Barrier - 4, Matrix access only when in port. Systems primary tasks are navigation and security.

Engine:
Twin 250hp marine diesel

Security:
Re-enforced Doors and walls with Maglocks that operate off of thumbpad verification (Rating eight), location violation alarm system linked to non-lethal intrusion counter measures. Video surveillance camera’s linked to on board computer system. There is also a safe in the master bedroom with a maglock outfitted with retinal and thumbpad scanner (rating ten) Integral bug detector and white noise generator.

Obviously this is going to cost the player a lot but if I let him do it then I don't feel so bad when his primary home gets blown to drek by the teams latest enemy. What do you all think?



Deacon
QUOTE
Electronic equipment:
includes Radar, Sonar, Satellite uplink-phone/communication, GPS and weather doppler. The vessel is fully automated so that one person can safely crew it for extended trips (16 to 21 days duration)

Yep, I can see the anti-radiation missiles coming in now. Has this guy figured out that normal fishing trawlers don't have this stuff, but corporate spy planes do?

If he wants this sort of thing, tell him to get a yacht. Then all the electronics become a symptom of the eccentricities of the rich, and he'll attract less attention than having a fishing trawler with a radar dish and full active sonar equipment.

Deacon
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Deacon)
QUOTE
Electronic equipment:
includes Radar, Sonar, Satellite uplink-phone/communication, GPS and weather doppler. The vessel is fully automated so that one person can safely crew it for extended trips (16 to 21 days duration)

Has this guy figured out that normal fishing trawlers don't have this stuff, but corporate spy planes do?

I would hope most fishing trawlers would have these things by 2060.

They would need them to compete due to over fishing, hostile SR critters, and pritates. YMMV.

Radar is just part of a sensor package, IIRC.
Stormdrake
The funny thing is that if you look up fishing trawlers for purchase from manufactures on goggle they can have almost all of the electronic stuff he listed including the sonar and satellite communication. Obviously some of it was upgraded by him in deference to the advances in tech that shadowrun has. No the source he used as the blue print did not have bug detecters or white noise generators but I believe those are rather mild additions.
Stormdrake
In building such a vessel would Rigger 3 be of any use? The character is a hermetic mage with no cyber at all. So setting it up for a rigger seems pointless. Keeping this in mind would the book still be useful for building the design? If you have not guessed I don't have the book.
Nephyte
The book despite it's name lends itself towards making mundane vehicles just as well as rigged ones.
danbot37
What book covers 'awakened' vehicles? lol
Nephyte
I was simply referring to the post above mine which implied the postee thought Rigger 3 might only be for riggers.


I was pointing out that it works well for non-rigged vehicles as well, or mundane vehicles. You could in a certain light I suppose suggest a rigged vehicle is the mechanical equivalent of being somewhat awakened compared to a non-rigged vehicle nyahnyah.gif
danbot37
oh, I understood what ya meant, but an awakened vehicle was the first thing that popped in my head when I read your post. Hey, if the matrix can have technoshaman otaku, why not awakened vehicles? A vehicle spirit or something
Nephyte
Shaman of the Spirit of Car.


I am summoning a Euro Westwind Spirit, with the travelling power! Zoom Zooooooooooooom!!!!
danbot37
Would definitely have to have movement and accident powers
El_Machinae
He should have an escape route, out the bottom of the boat. With ready-to-use scuba gear. That way, if things hit the fan again, he can swim away.

Also, it might be a good idea to get other systems to help him travel. That way he can shut off his GPS and radar (thus making it harder to track him).

Hiding in plain sight always works - just be one of the innumerable boats!
Frag-o Delux
GPS doesn't broadcast it only recieves, the last time I checked, so it would be immune to being tracked by a hostile.

Not mention he should still have some sort of navigation skill if he was serious about running in his boat. Charts, and compasses are a good low tech item all ships should have. And a trawler is a ship, if I remember correctly so he may need another skill to take advantage of this escape vehicle. If he is just going to moar it at a dock and just live there then he really doesn't need all that. But if he really wants to find in a marina he should at least learn some nauticle knowledge so he doesn't stick out to the locals.
Kurukami
QUOTE (El_Machinae)
He should have an escape route, out the bottom of the boat. With ready-to-use scuba gear. That way, if things hit the fan again, he can swim away.

No offense, but usually a hole in the bottom of the boat means the craft is about to sink. smile.gif That sort of thing really only works on subs, where the water doesn't have anywhere to go because the air pressure keeps it out.
Drain Brain
Erm... Airlock?
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Kurukami)
That sort of thing really only works on subs, where the water doesn't have anywhere to go because the air pressure keeps it out.

Close, but not quite exact. An opening to the water has to be on the undeside of a vessile(or aquacology) and in a pressurized room. As long as there is no open path for air to flow out from that room to the atmosphere, it will be just as seaworthy. Such things have other drawbacks...

As mentioned, a traditional airlock (close door, other side opens, water enters) would be a valid interpretation of the concept, but a room with an airlock to enter would probably be faster (enter, door closes, other door opens, jump in hole).
Kagetenshi
It depends on how you do the hole. Moon pool anyone?

~J
Nephyte
Technically you're trying to escape the boat, do you really care if your airlock is pressurized or if you're boat is going to sink after you escape out the bottom....
Ed_209a
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
QUOTE (Deacon @ Oct 10 2003, 06:53 PM)
QUOTE
Electronic equipment:
includes Radar, Sonar, Satellite uplink-phone/communication, GPS and weather doppler. The vessel is fully automated so that one person can safely crew it for extended trips (16 to 21 days duration)

Has this guy figured out that normal fishing trawlers don't have this stuff, but corporate spy planes do?

I would hope most fishing trawlers would have these things by 2060.

The specific type would make a big difference also.

A 10 mile navigation radar would be completely ignored. A 50 mile military-grade surface-search imaging radar would not.
El_Machinae
Erm, just make sure the room with the escape hatch doesn't have a screen door!
Stormdrake
Comedians, gotta love em. The vessel as described by my player seems like it would just disappear amongst the other individually owned fishing vessels in Seattle harbor. As this is what he wants and the vessel serves as only a hide out and will only come into play should I frag his normal dwellings I say why not? By the way, the reason the character is so paranoid is he swiped a drake out from under the noses of not one but two Great Dragons. unfortunately it was not a "clean" extraction and enough clues were left behind for him to be found, should one or both dragons decide to extract a little vengeance.
Siege
A drake...from under the nose of two Great Dragons?

The character is dead. He is so dead, Jesus Christ said, "Holy shit, you're dead."

At this point, he should just forgo paranoia and embrace the liberating feeling of knowing he's dead and enjoy the rest of his brief life.

-Siege
TinkerGnome
Not necessarily dead... but I'd say he's going to find himself with a new employer. You know, one that doesn't really offer you cash but rather the right to continue breathing for your work. Task one being getting that Drake back. vegm.gif
Siege
Like I said, dead.

Or dragon bait, with barbcue sauce.

-Siege
Athenor
I think you are making this overly complex.

Simplest answer I can provide is just design it as a lifestyle, using the rules out of SSG. Because it is a system meant to represent roleplaying elements, not to mention being geared towards the paranoid, it should work fine. In fact, I would be willing to bet that there is a rule for having a "mobile" lifestyle (to represent mobile homes and such)... and if it doesn't, it wouldn't be too hard to add it as an edge.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that by doing it that way, as a lifestyle, it'd be cheaper in the long run than trying to buy a schooner. It's not technically in the "ship" size category yet (I don't believe), but it is pushing -really- close.. which would mean learning a whole new set of rules. In fact, I think your tub there is bigger than the naval-class yacht used in Brainscan.

So in the end, I'd say weigh your options, with consideration (as a GM) towards whether or not you are going to actually -need- the rules for the fuel, armor, speed, weapon mounting points, and so on. Also consider how long he will spend at sea, as opposed to being on land -- if it were a sea-based game, like a pirate game, then of course go with the naval rules. But if this is a backup safehouse, or even just some place to get some side cred, go with a lifestyle.

Athenor

PS: Hadn't seen the drake comment. Yup. get out the marshmellows now, man. just give him the boat -- after all, dragons love their crunchies in tin foil, keeps 'em warm and from going stale.
Kagetenshi
There are rules for mobile lifestyles, and they're all in Rigger 3.

~J
TinkerGnome
For mobile lifestyles, you generally buy the vehicle you're going to be living in and then pay a percentage charge based on the parts of town you're in during the month and what lifestyle equivalent it provides. Originally, it was something like 10%-20% from Rigger 3 (check in the living amenities design option) and SSG keeps a similar theme while adding in the area modifiers to the cost, etc.
Athenor
I had a feeling that there were things such as that in Rigger 3, due to the pirates/military vessels thing. But again, I'd say don't make this too complex on the lost soul. SSG's lifestyle rules should have been written with Rigger 3's naval lifestyles in mind, so... *shrugs*

Athenor
Stormdrake
lol, the group left behind some rather unique equipment that could be tracked back to them. They are usually very good about this, going as far as sterilizing rooms thru spells after doing things and using exposable equipment. basically buying weapons and vehicles for each run then burning them afterwards. This time however they "needed" a "magically active" key to slice thru the defences around the drake, which they did. However in the insueing struggle to subdue the reluctant drake the key was lost when a pc was thrown out a 2nd story window (which he survived) but the satchel with the key in it was dropped. So the key , if it is found, is magically linked to the mage and it is rather unique so probably easy to trace. Really bad dice rolling on their part and really good on mine, sigh.
Athenor
Heh. Let's not even think about the astral ripples a drake gives off, especially to dragons... wink.gif

Athenor
Stormdrake
Well I should mention they delivered the Drake to their fixer as the job required. So the ripples attached to him are now away from the group. A future problem for the group is that the Mr. Johnson that hired them thru their fixer was the Draco Corp. So even if the Dragons don't decide to come after them a trained Drake may at a later point.

What kind of domain would a ship be? I mean for summoning a spirit?
Grey
Depends, if it is used as an apartment a lot, then it would be a Hearth. But if not, then it would be Sea.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Stormdrake)
What kind of domain would a ship be? I mean for summoning a spirit?

Sea, sky, and possibly hearth (if it's generally lived on)
Athenor
It is specificially said that on the Japanese and American supercarriers, enough people have gathered and live in a community that spirits of man can be summoned.. and usually are, as they make great flak cannons... assuming they don't go against a highly techie jet's OR, and rather the pilot inside. wink.gif

Athenor
Mr. Man
If one of my characters was on the run from a dragon they probably wouldn't be putting large amounts of money into hideouts that they would have to destroy anyway if (when?) they were discovered. Instead they would set up decoys all over the place and (most importantly) keep moving and changing identities.

Sure it would be expensive, but it worked for Saddam Hussain...
Kanada Ten
Having made a "Trawler" using Rigger 3, can I say ouch.
A sail powered trawler costs 2.7 million nuyen.gif (unlimited range)
A diesel powered trawler costs 2.25 nuyen.gif (1000 kilometer range)

Sail Trawler
2,795,000 nuyen.gif
Hand : 4
Body : 2 (hull)
Armor : 0
Speed : 10 (10 cavitation)
Accel : 2
Sig : 3/2
Auto/Piolt : 4/0
Sensor/Sonar : 1/1
CF : 500
Load : 5,000
Seat : 15
Entry : 4d + 1h (cargo door)
Crane (5) : 5,000 kg
TinkerGnome
That's a high price tag, but don't ships have an opearational lifespan much longer than cars? It's reasonable to give most trawlers the "used" quality factor, knocking the price down 60% smile.gif
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
TinkerGnomeThat's a high price tag, but don't ships have an opearational lifespan much longer than cars?  It's reasonable to give most trawlers the "used" quality factor, knocking the price down 60% smile.gif

Sure, but it suddenly dawned on me why most fishers are in debt to the mob or run out by mega-fishing farms.

Hell in SR, the only fishers left might be speciality fishing; those searching for the right slab of Kraken meat and such.

And what is up with turrets not standard on ships? What about pirates? What about Krakens? IMO, fishing licenses grant LMG privileges (requiring a mounted weapon, entry in a ballistics database, and routine inspections).

But what you really need is to put an LMG and a laser designator on a turret and then a missile rack hooked in. If a megaladon surfaces near, bomb it to hell and get out of there!
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