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Okay, if you guys don't mind I've a few questions about vehicles in SR4. There are several things which don't seem clear as a new player, and I'd like to put a rigger together. I've lurked on the boards here watching some of the games, and read plenty of fan fiction so I have an idea of the SR world already... But these things just aren't defined in SR4.

First sensors. Cameras especially, although to a lesser significance directional mics, laser mics/rangefinders, motion sensors and other sensors you usually have to point somewhere. How are they mounted? I mean would a camera on a van or drone be in a fixed mount always looking in the same direction? In a mounting that allows it to pan and tilt? Or (importantly for vans) would it represent a network of cameras that can look in just about any direction you need, but possibly with limited view in the tilt range?

Similarly with weapon mounts... Can they alter their aim, or would you have to turn the whole vehicle or drone to aim it? And are they obvious or hidden?

I'm asking because you guys have experience of SR, and you might either have useful views on what the community as a whole uses for these... Or maybe there's something in a previous edition that can be used as a benchmark. It looks like a lot of vehicle modifications were left out of the SR4 core rules, with only the rigger adaptation and ambiguous weapon mount. I'm planning on giving my rigger a van (naturally), but want more than a simple fixed forward view from the cameras, if only another camera or two facing to the rear and a motion sensor on either side to cover the doors.
Kanada Ten
Well, weapons mounted on a vehicle without a turret probably have the old 60 degree firing arc and are obvious.

The sensor issue is more difficult because it stands to reason that a van would have 360 + 180 degree camera, but you wouldn't say the same for a camera mounted on an RFID tag. Laser mics seem like they would be mounted similar to a weapon, maybe even on a weapon like rangefinders (but a mini turret on the roof seems so reasonable for them...). Motion sensors would be all around, IMO.
James McMurray
We've just always run weapons and sensors as 360 degree coverage because it's easier that way. A sensor ratin of 1 doesn't necessarily mean just one camera, it could mean that the entire perimeter is viewed, but only via camera. Gun mounts, since there are no rules to make them hidden, we've always assumed were on a 360 mount.

The best thing to do is to remember that the vehicle rules in SR4 are very skeletal, and were meant to be that way. They'll likely take up an entire book once they fully hit print, and the cost vs. reward to try and add truly comprehensive vehicle rules to the main book just wasn't worth it.

You'll probably get a lot more responses by posting this on the SR4 boards as well. I'm not sure how many of the SR4 folks read here a lot.
Thanks. I'm not sure whether you mean specific SR4 boards on here or somewhere else, but I'll have a look.

I utterly understand that there can't be full rules for vehicles in SR4... but it would have been nice to say something like "The weapon mount can mount any weapon up to LMG and 250 rounds of ammo with a 60 degree arc of fire, and is easily visible to anyone looking at the vehicle" or something like that. Looks like having a gun on my van would be a bad idea then.

Thanks again.
Try to get your hands on a copy of Rigger 3 or even Rigger 2. I know these are SR3 sourcebooks, but they'll give you information that should be easy to transfer into SR4.

You can say something like:
...SR3 fixed firmpoints, pintle mounts, and micro-turrets require one SR4 weapon mount...
...SR3 fixed hardpoints, mini-turrets, and ring mounts require two SR4 weapon mounts...
...fixed mounts can be internal (protected by armor, take up some space inside the vehicle) or external (no armor protection, obvious)...

Don't bother with creating hard SR4 rules for these mounts, use simple logic and imagination - ring mount is likely to have 360 degree coverage, pintle mount about 60 degree one, fixed mounts 0 to 5 degrees based on your preferences.

And yes, there are specific SR4 boards here.
Wouldn't a pintle mount allow 360 degree rotation, but limited to a 60 degree elevation and about a 30 degree depression?
Austere Emancipator
The pintle mount probably refers to mounts like these two. How much elevation and depression a pintle mount allows depends on the exact application: on top of a ground vehicle, you could quite a bit of elevation but little depression, while on a helo like the examples above you can get 75+ degrees of depression but little elevation (in R3, it's 30 degrees up or down, 60 degrees left or right).
Actually, this is going to sound odd, but R3r calls that (the heli door gunner spot) a ring mount, though I suppose only so you can mount heavy weapons (HMG) on it.
Austere Emancipator
Oh, right you are. Didn't bother to read their descriptions in R3. Funny that the Ring Mount section does not give an exception to the 360 degree rotation, +/- 30 degree elevation of a basic Ring Mount for helo door guns. Not one of the worse flaws in R3, but funny nevertheless.

A pintle mount on a land vehicle will generally have a similarly limited horizontal field of fire, though, like here.
QUOTE (ronin3338)
Wouldn't a pintle mount allow 360 degree rotation, but limited to a 60 degree elevation and about a 30 degree depression?

nope, pintle would be mounting it on a post basically, so while you CAN swivel it 360, you can't do that without getting out of where you're sitting and standing on the roof of the vehicle. your call.

a ring gives you 360, however. the rules for weapon mounts in R3 are kinda wonky.

but then, what isn't?
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