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Zolhex
Ok I am working on a project for SR4 and being that the world is reliant on computers I started reading the wireless world section. However I am not nor have I been big on decking/hacking so I need some help here.

I have looked at the material but I don't see and examples of systems. older edtions had some stuff like 7/6/5/5/6/5/7/8 or something like that that told you what your system had for I guess attributes.

So as I sit here trying to figure out what a small corps system is and what I guess would be the stats for said system I figured I'd pop in and ask can anyone help understand what I need to know to run a system in SR4 against my players?
BishopMcQ
Casa--

The ACIFS that you are used to are now gone. Instead every device is made up of either a Device rating or Matrix Attributes.

Device rating is generally used for standard pieces of gear or computers that may not be plot sensitive. You pick a device rating in line with the table on p. 214 SR4. A device raitng gives the device matrix attributes and all associated programs that it requires at a rating equal to device rating. (If you want to hack an off the shelf coffee maker, it has a device rating of 1 and therefore any test it needs to make it will substitute one for each program or attribute. Generally that means it will roll 2 dice.)

Now for custom nodes and devices, they will have a fully layed out set of matrix attributes.

These attributes are Firewall, Response, Signal and System. In general these will be limited at Rating 6 but some experimental designs have shown higher ratings (READ: GM caveat).

A home system for a hacker might read 5/4/4/5, which would be a fairly customized system for a high-end hacker. On the other hand, a script kiddy might have a system that is 3/3/2/3. It is all dependant upon what you give it.

Note that it has been the general decision of the people on Dumpshock, that large "hosts" are built up of a mesh network of several smaller devices and thus are not limited by their subscription lists and the number of programs that can be run at a given time. The rating of the programs however is still limited per normal.
Zolhex
So then a top level system now would be 6/6/6/6 in theory?

Thus if I want to make a system for a couple of small corp locations it is a good bet they are running systems of around 3/3/3/3 or 4/4/4/4?

What about IC? I mean the stats as is are as you say for Firewall, Response, Signal and System.

As I am the gm say my players want to hack a system more than likely via on the fly method they roll hacking and exploit to get in target number for them is my firewall only?

Please excuse me as I am just now really looking at the matrix as I said with past issues I did little to nothing with the matrix.
GrinderTheTroll
General system design is left up to the GM, aside from the basic definitions of the different objects, the architecture is of your own design mostly.

Here's an example system:

[ Spoiler ]
Zolhex
Ok so lets see if I have this right.

The corps computer is this:

System 3
Firewall 4
Response 3
Signal 3

The hacker rolls Hacking + Exploit vs. the systems Firewall of 4 each test is 1 int. pass. The system rolls Analyze + Firewall vs. the hackers Stealth of say 4. each rolls till one or the other meets or beats the target number. If the system wins an alert goes off if the hackers wins s/he gets in unnoticed. add +3 or +6 to the target number if the hacker is going for security or admin rights.

If an alert goes off the IC is this:

Pilot 4
Analyze 3
Track 3
Attack 3

at which point the system begins tracking the source of the hacker using Pilot + Track target number 10 each test is 1 int. pass if successful know where the hacker is or at least general area. At I guess the same time the program attacks uesing Pilot + Attack vs.responsee + Stealth doing damage of 3 to the hacker if successful. Repeat as necessary.
GrinderTheTroll
You've got the gist of it.

Extended Test to Brute Hack, each time you roll, you make an Opposed Test vs. the System. If the System wins, an alert is trigged.

Hacking a Personal (+0), Secuirty (+3) or Admin (+6) account but add the +# to your Threshold for the Extended Test.

Probing takes longer but the system only gets one roll once auto-infiltrate.
The Jopp
If a commlink is a computer system for the average joe and they have the same attributes and rules as high-end corporate systems then we have a slight problem. The corporation either buy a stationary commlink for 0,001% of their total funds (letís say the corporation has a capital of 6000000Y and the commlink cost is 6000, thatís 0,001%)

Now, if we edit the upgrade cost of the commlink slightly to even things out the average price for upgrading a commlink 1 level (rating 5 to rating 6 for example) we have a price cost of +100%. With this in mind we can calculate the cost for buying a higher grade system by just upping the price by 100% for each rating.

Response 1: 250
Response 2: 500
Response 3: 1 000
Response 4: 2 000
Response 5: 4 000
Response 6: 8 000
Response 7: 16 000
Response 8: 32 000
Response 9: 64 000
Response 10: 128 000
..
Response 20: 131 072 000,00

Now, the rating 20 is a bit extreme but not impossible at all for larger corporations. I feel that the response is a non issue since it is just processing power and memory and that shouldnít be very hard to manage for corporations that can take huge loans in order to afford the system they need, or write off the cost of the system within a few years.


If we do something similar to system & firewall we can see a cost trend there too.

Rating 1-3: 200Y / lvl
Rating 4-6: 500Y / lvl

Now, if we go with this assumption we just up the price +60% for every three levels.

Rating 7-9: 800Y / lvl
Rating 10-13: 1280Y / lvl
Rating 14-16: 2048Y / lvl
Rating 17-20: 3276,8Y / lvl

Round up if you have to or just even out the cost a bit.

Oh, and letís check another way for corporations to have a lot of more powerful systems.

-Bulk Price : Suddenly they get 20-50% reduction in price since they order computer systems for ALL their offices in North America so they are even cheaper.

-Manufacture: They build their own (nuff said)

BishopMcQ
Casa--the big difference which I don't think you are realizing is that the TN never changes. The TN is always 5 or 6, only the number of successes required (ie. Threshold) changes.

So your hacker throws his dice (let's assume Hacking 3 + Exploit 3) and will score on average 2 successes per test. With a firewall of 4, unless the hacker is lucky (using edge etc.) it is going to take him 2-3 passes to break into the system. During each of those passes, the system will throw Analyze + Firewall (let's use your ratings of 3/4/3/3) which means it will throw 7 dice looking for a number of successes equal to the hacker's stealth program rating.

RE: IC attacks--the IC does a base damage of 3 + Net Successes. That means if the IC rolls well and our poor hacker flubs it is possible for the IC to do more damage.

This means that unless the hacker has invested in a good rating stealth program, the system will generally find him at the same time he breaks in. (Even more often if the hacker is going for a higher security level...)
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (The Jopp)
If a commlink is a computer system for the average joe and they have the same attributes and rules as high-end corporate systems then we have a slight problem. The corporation either buy a stationary commlink for 0,001% of their total funds (letís say the corporation has a capital of 6000000Y and the commlink cost is 6000, thatís 0,001%)

Now, if we edit the upgrade cost of the commlink slightly to even things out the average price for upgrading a commlink 1 level (rating 5 to rating 6 for example) we have a price cost of +100%. With this in mind we can calculate the cost for buying a higher grade system by just upping the price by 100% for each rating.

Response 1: 250
Response 2: 500
Response 3: 1 000
Response 4: 2 000
Response 5: 4 000
Response 6: 8 000
Response 7: 16 000
Response 8: 32 000
Response 9: 64 000
Response 10: 128 000
..
Response 20: 131 072 000,00

Now, the rating 20 is a bit extreme but not impossible at all for larger corporations. I feel that the response is a non issue since it is just processing power and memory and that shouldnít be very hard to manage for corporations that can take huge loans in order to afford the system they need, or write off the cost of the system within a few years.


If we do something similar to system & firewall we can see a cost trend there too.

Rating 1-3: 200Y / lvl
Rating 4-6: 500Y / lvl

Now, if we go with this assumption we just up the price +60% for every three levels.

Rating 7-9: 800Y / lvl
Rating 10-13: 1280Y / lvl
Rating 14-16: 2048Y / lvl
Rating 17-20: 3276,8Y / lvl

Round up if you have to or just even out the cost a bit.

Oh, and letís check another way for corporations to have a lot of more powerful systems.

-Bulk Price : Suddenly they get 20-50% reduction in price since they order computer systems for ALL their offices in North America so they are even cheaper.

-Manufacture: They build their own (nuff said)

Don't confuse the poor guy with House rules, he want's to know how to hack a system in SR4. wink.gif

The difference between SR4 Commlink and Terminal devices is understated:
Commlink can only access Sysx2 nodes at a time, Systems have unlimited node acccess capabilities.

We'll see more with the SR4:Matrix book once it makes an appearance.
mdynna
Grinder, I think we're finally bringing people around to see the "difference between a Host and a Commlink/Device" issue. I was getting sick of reading "but there's not difference between a corporate Node and my Commlink now..."
Teulisch
hardware, you have signal and response.

Response (and system) limits the highest program rating you can run, and how many programs you can run. run too many and you slow down the system, thus reducing effective rating of every program. the real limit is that response => system => highest program rating (=> equal or greater than).

Signal, is how far away you can send a signal. you need to use the range of the WEAKER signal to do much of anything. so if i want to hack a signal 1 box, i need to get close to it- or hack a higher signal device which is close enough to it.

Software, you have system and firewall.

your firewall, is you best line of defense against a hostile world. you want this to be 6, if at all possible. firewall makes your node harder to see, it acts as threshold vs hacking in, defends against a crash, and affects your defense in cybercombat.

a hacker wants the highest Response he can get. Response 5 is availibility 12. Agents are avilibility 12 at rating 4, but everything else you can get at up to rathing 6. It better to start with system 6, so you save money when you upgrade response later.

So, a corp is going to save money, and only have 1 or 2 devices ith a high signal rating. the rest only need enough to comunicate inside the building. some may be wired with no signal at all for security reasons.

I would expect there to be one node connecting to the matrix, acting as a chokepoint on entry from outside. next you have a node for each department (sales, marketing, IT, accounting, ect). each such node will have several sub-nodes in that department. so you hack into the chokepoint, hack into the department node, and then hack into the sub-node. then find the file, disarm a databomb, decrypt it, and grab your paydata.

due to various signal strengths, some nodes only connect to a few others (weaker signal, and physical proximity, and soem walls blocking signal).
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (Teulisch)
I would expect there to be one node connecting to the matrix, acting as a chokepoint on entry from outside. next you have a node for each department (sales, marketing, IT, accounting, ect).  each such node will have several sub-nodes in that department. so you hack into the chokepoint, hack into the department node, and then hack into the sub-node. then find the file, disarm a databomb, decrypt it, and grab your paydata.

Casazil, as you can see here, you can make your system as complex or simple as you'd like but there are no hard requirements in SR4.
Zolhex
QUOTE (McQuillan)
Casa--the big difference which I don't think you are realizing is that the TN never changes. The TN is always 5 or 6, only the number of successes required (ie. Threshold) changes.

RE: IC attacks--the IC does a base damage of 3 + Net Successes. That means if the IC rolls well and our poor hacker flubs it is possible for the IC to do more damage.

Have no fear McQuillan I have the target numbers down np. As to the more damage that makes sense I just was not thinking so that is something i'll need to keep in mind when the groups decker does combat.
BishopMcQ
Casa--got it. The way I read your post, it looked like you were rolling a TN 3 on occassion and things like that, so I wanted to make sure so you had everything down.

How did the game go?
Zolhex
Have not played the game yet. I was just writing the adventure up and needed to figure out ouw to set up the computer systems for each location.
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