Magic is something that was not touched upon much in my campaigns. Dirty deeds have been done dirt cheap without our group never considering that a spirit or someone projecting could have been watching.
So, we now have a Hermetic in the party. I am now jumped into a whole new realm in SR. After looking into some of the rules and watching the mage work I realize that we have been playing 1/2 of SR for years. What a waste.
I want to make up for it, but I am still reading things. I need your help.
Let's say I cast a Manabolt.
Do I decide the damage?
Or does it start by default at Light?
Can I start it at Deadly?
Is it staged up by my sorcery test?
What is my TN?
Full Version: Magic
Whoa...
Do I decide the damage?
Yes - L, M, S or D
Or does it start by default at Light?
Not really a "Default" as such... just, I dunno, whatever you want, really.
Can I start it at Deadly?
Yep
Is it staged up by my sorcery test?
It can be, IIRC - magic ain't my strong suit either
What is my TN?
The spell lists have a "target" section. I believe for Manabolt it's "W" which means the target's Willpower rating. Other examples would be OR (Object Resistance), B (Body), "10-Essence" (the target's essence, that is - mostly for health spells) and the like.
Do I decide the damage?
Yes - L, M, S or D
Or does it start by default at Light?
Not really a "Default" as such... just, I dunno, whatever you want, really.
Can I start it at Deadly?
Yep
Is it staged up by my sorcery test?
It can be, IIRC - magic ain't my strong suit either
What is my TN?
The spell lists have a "target" section. I believe for Manabolt it's "W" which means the target's Willpower rating. Other examples would be OR (Object Resistance), B (Body), "10-Essence" (the target's essence, that is - mostly for health spells) and the like.
So, in my example...
I roll my sorcery based off of their Willpower.
I get 2 successes staging the damage (which I chose as Light) up to Moderate.
I then make a Drain Test based off of the Moderate damage to the target, which equals (Damage Level). So, I make a Willpower roll, against a 3M (Force of spell, 3) Right?
I roll my sorcery based off of their Willpower.
I get 2 successes staging the damage (which I chose as Light) up to Moderate.
I then make a Drain Test based off of the Moderate damage to the target, which equals (Damage Level). So, I make a Willpower roll, against a 3M (Force of spell, 3) Right?
| QUOTE (Nindaru) |
| Let's say I cast a Manabolt. Do I decide the damage? Or does it start by default at Light? Can I start it at Deadly? Is it staged up by my sorcery test? What is my TN? |
"I cast Manabolt." There, I said it. Nyuck nyuck.
Anyway...
You decide the force of the spell and the damage code. Basically, the deadlier and harder to resiter you make it for them, the deadlier and harder to resist you make the drain for youself.
With physical spells, typically the drain is either the body of the target if it's alive or the number listed on the Object resistance chart. With mana spells, it's usually Willpower. (I don't believe mana spells work on non-living object, but then, what good is chaos spell to a wooden chair?)
Damaging spells are staged up as normal, but don't forget to have the target resist the spell if the target is alive. I think my group and I years ago forgot to have target resist spells, so when we cast 6L powerbolts and got 8 successes, there was a lot of gangers going splat and very little drain.
Just in case you're still confused, let me run this example by you.
There's a brute of a guard sitting outside that squat, and two mages, Tree-D and Red Ron need to get past him. Tree-D goes first and casts a powerbolt at the ganger. He casts the powerbolt at force 4 and chooses damage code of S. His target number is the ganger's body (a whopping 8! Damn orks!) And the ork is going to resister 4(because that's the force) S (because that's what Tree-D chose to cast the spell at). Once that's all said and done, Tree-D then has to ressit 3S (the drain code of powerbolt is +1[Damager level] because 4 divided by 2 is 2 plus 1 is 3)
Red Ron, however, casts Manabolt. He casts it at force 4 as well, but only at M. The ganger is tough, but not very bright and used to taken orders (he has a willpower of 2) So Red Ron's TN is 2 (since Manabolt is a mana spell), the guard has to resist 4M with his 2 Willpower. As far as drain goes, Red Ron only has to resist 2M (manabolt's drain is Damage Level, so force 4 divided by 2 is 2M; not very difficult to resist)
Got it?
Just as a note: The drain is based on the power level the mage chooses, not the power level the victim suffers at the end.
| QUOTE |
| divided by 2 |
Um, where is that from?
thats how it always worked
That's how what works? (Not trying to be sarcastic. I am really stumped by the magic...)
Yes, Force/2 is how drain is calculated. I'll try and get an exact page referance later, but if you look in your BBB under the Sorcery Tests and Resisting Drain headers of text it should be in there. Page 191 actually, under the Drain in bold on the top right column.
To expand upon the former examples:
Relevant Stats of Juliet: Magic 6, Sorcery 6, and Willpower 6, Spell pool 6
Relevant Stats of Target: Willpower 3
Juliet is a Hermetic Tradition Full Mage. Her spell selection is quite varied but she's typically non-lethal in her methods. Therefore her primary choice of attack spell is generally a stunbolt. She has learned Stunbolt to a force of 6.
She is currently in a situation with an neighbor whose taking offense at the yapping of her shitzu throughout the night. He's getting rather ugly and has got a baseball bat and is threatening her. She decides that isn't appropriate behaviour and chooses to Chastise him.
Juliet casts a Force 6 Stunbolt, choosing to do a base of Severe Stun. She has 6 dice from sorcery to cast this spell, and may use any spell pool she wishes to augment the test. Her target number is the neighbor's Willpower, thus a 3. She chooses just to roll straight sorcery dice and gets 3 successes. It is now the neighbors turn to resist the spell. For resistance he gets 3 dice for his willpower, plus any applicable spell pool. The neighbor is mundane however and has no spell pool, thus only rolling 3 dice. His TN is 6, the force of the spell. He rolls only one success. This leaves two successes which is enough to stage the spell from Serious to Deadly Stun damage.
Now, Juliet has to resist the drain. Drain on a Stunbolt is -1(Damage Level) thus her TN is worked out as this: (Force/2) - 1 S which is (6/2)=3 - 1 = 2S. She resists drain with her willpower. She can also add any applicable Spellpool Dice to help resist the drain, and chooses to use all 6 in this instance. She gets a grand total of 9 successes, which is well over the 6 needed to stage Serious down to none.
Now Juliet just has to decide what to do with the unconcious neighbor....
To expand upon the former examples:
Relevant Stats of Juliet: Magic 6, Sorcery 6, and Willpower 6, Spell pool 6
Relevant Stats of Target: Willpower 3
Juliet is a Hermetic Tradition Full Mage. Her spell selection is quite varied but she's typically non-lethal in her methods. Therefore her primary choice of attack spell is generally a stunbolt. She has learned Stunbolt to a force of 6.
She is currently in a situation with an neighbor whose taking offense at the yapping of her shitzu throughout the night. He's getting rather ugly and has got a baseball bat and is threatening her. She decides that isn't appropriate behaviour and chooses to Chastise him.
Juliet casts a Force 6 Stunbolt, choosing to do a base of Severe Stun. She has 6 dice from sorcery to cast this spell, and may use any spell pool she wishes to augment the test. Her target number is the neighbor's Willpower, thus a 3. She chooses just to roll straight sorcery dice and gets 3 successes. It is now the neighbors turn to resist the spell. For resistance he gets 3 dice for his willpower, plus any applicable spell pool. The neighbor is mundane however and has no spell pool, thus only rolling 3 dice. His TN is 6, the force of the spell. He rolls only one success. This leaves two successes which is enough to stage the spell from Serious to Deadly Stun damage.
Now, Juliet has to resist the drain. Drain on a Stunbolt is -1(Damage Level) thus her TN is worked out as this: (Force/2) - 1 S which is (6/2)=3 - 1 = 2S. She resists drain with her willpower. She can also add any applicable Spellpool Dice to help resist the drain, and chooses to use all 6 in this instance. She gets a grand total of 9 successes, which is well over the 6 needed to stage Serious down to none.
Now Juliet just has to decide what to do with the unconcious neighbor....
| QUOTE (Nephyte) |
| Now Juliet just has to decide what to do with the unconcious neighbor.... |
Pah! That's what woodchippers or fire elementals are for. Hhmm, barbecue. Anyone for ribs?
| QUOTE |
| Pah! That's what woodchippers or fire elementals are for. Hhmm, barbecue. Anyone for ribs? |
Hey now, I said Juliet was interested in non-lethal methods. This doesn't mean she doesn't have a vindictive streak, and she does live in the Barrens. Large Ork populations around .... *paints I Hate Fragging Trogs on his now naked chest and drags him out on the street .... *
Just remember the difference in resisting between combat spells and damaging manipulation spells.
Lets use Juliet again as an example.
If she uses a combat spell (like stunbolt) it works like this:
This time Juliet has really bad luck. Despite her low TN and her high sorcery skill she only manages to get three successes on her sorcery test. The target manages with the impossible and also gets three successes. His three cancels out her and he takes no damage at all.
If she instead had used something like Acid Stream things work a bit differently.
To start with her TN is no longer the scrags willpower, but a base TN of 4. This is because the spell counts as a ranged attack. She still choses serious as her base damage and only gets three successes. The scrag is pretty good and also manages to get three successes on his DODGE test. (Just a regular dodge test like any ranged attack). Since he didn't get more successes than Juliet her spell still hits and he has to do a damage resistance test. His TN is the force of the spell (lets say she chose a force 6) and he gets three more successes. This means that despite him getting a whopping total of 6 successes compared to her 3 he still takes a Moderate physical.
Lets use Juliet again as an example.
If she uses a combat spell (like stunbolt) it works like this:
This time Juliet has really bad luck. Despite her low TN and her high sorcery skill she only manages to get three successes on her sorcery test. The target manages with the impossible and also gets three successes. His three cancels out her and he takes no damage at all.
If she instead had used something like Acid Stream things work a bit differently.
To start with her TN is no longer the scrags willpower, but a base TN of 4. This is because the spell counts as a ranged attack. She still choses serious as her base damage and only gets three successes. The scrag is pretty good and also manages to get three successes on his DODGE test. (Just a regular dodge test like any ranged attack). Since he didn't get more successes than Juliet her spell still hits and he has to do a damage resistance test. His TN is the force of the spell (lets say she chose a force 6) and he gets three more successes. This means that despite him getting a whopping total of 6 successes compared to her 3 he still takes a Moderate physical.
And remember for combat spells (NOT damageing manipulations) the target's armor is counbted NOT AT ALL. it is wholly and completely ignored.
Wow, I hadn't thought about the armor angle.
So, what protection can a mundane get against the surge of magic in the world? How can a chump like me protect myself?
So, what protection can a mundane get against the surge of magic in the world? How can a chump like me protect myself?
Without a mage to help by loaning you spell defence dice or other magical doohickey, you pretty much are screwed versus combat spells.
Three options for mundane defense against magic:
A) High Willpower and Body.
B) Friends with a mage who is willing to extend you spell protection (from his sorcery dice)
C) Anchored, Quickened or Sustained Magical Defense Spell.
A) High Willpower and Body.
B) Friends with a mage who is willing to extend you spell protection (from his sorcery dice)
C) Anchored, Quickened or Sustained Magical Defense Spell.
LD, are you sure that's how it works?
In the first example, it seems to me that the spell hould still have taken effect, but she simply cannot stage up past her base damage rating. I may be wrong here.
However, your second example is whack. Elemental manipulation spells are ranged attacks with sorcery being used as a ranged attack skill, so it seems that like all ranged attacks, if the number of successes on a dodge test equal the successes on the attack test, then the attack is dodged and does no damage.
In other words, I think you mixed them up. In the first example, despite Juliet getting no net successes, the spell should still take effect, but without any staging up (just like a normal damage resistance test). In the second example, if the scag dodges the acid strem, it misses and does no damage.
In the first example, it seems to me that the spell hould still have taken effect, but she simply cannot stage up past her base damage rating. I may be wrong here.
However, your second example is whack. Elemental manipulation spells are ranged attacks with sorcery being used as a ranged attack skill, so it seems that like all ranged attacks, if the number of successes on a dodge test equal the successes on the attack test, then the attack is dodged and does no damage.
In other words, I think you mixed them up. In the first example, despite Juliet getting no net successes, the spell should still take effect, but without any staging up (just like a normal damage resistance test). In the second example, if the scag dodges the acid strem, it misses and does no damage.
| QUOTE (GunnerJ) |
| However, your second example is whack. Elemental manipulation spells are ranged attacks with sorcery being used as a ranged attack skill, so it seems that like all ranged attacks, if the number of successes on a dodge test equal the successes on the attack test, then the attack is dodged and does no damage. |
I've said it once today, so I'll say it again. You must get more successes on your dodge test than the shooter/caster on their "attack" test, a tie goes to the attacker.
Check out pg. 113 of the BBB.
@GunnerJ
CanvasBack beat me to the last question, but I get to answer the first! Yay me!
Page 183 BBB:
"If there is a Spell Resistance Test, the casters's successes are compared to the successes generated by the target. If the target generated the same number or more successes, the spell does not affect the target." (emphasis mine)
CanvasBack beat me to the last question, but I get to answer the first! Yay me!
Page 183 BBB:
"If there is a Spell Resistance Test, the casters's successes are compared to the successes generated by the target. If the target generated the same number or more successes, the spell does not affect the target." (emphasis mine)
That means for a combat spell to even take effect at all the spell needs one NET success after the resistance roll, or nothing happens. If there are no NET sucesses, IE a tie happens, then the spell does NOT go off.
Wow. So our group does EVERYTHING ass-backwards. We require net successes on a dodge roll for the ATTACKER. And if the caster gets one success on the sorcery roll, the target has to negate the caster's successes and stage down from the base damage level.
Don't forget, while the caster has to get a net success, the victim doesn't get any additional resistance tests. If the caster gets even one net success, the target is taking the full base damage.
Yep yep. It's impossible to get hit with a combat spell and take less than base damage, because there is no staging down at all. It is either getting hit and staging it up, or not getting hit at all.
I know this is getting redundent (just realize that his GM has once again been slipping to other game system rules. Oh well he is the GM, and they are his rules.)
Okay you resist a spell as the defender by getting same or more successes then the mage?
I'm still unsure about elemental manipulation spells (and other spells you can dodge, ummm I'm appling that I'm asking what type of spells you can dodge.) anyways dodge works like dodging bullets if defender equals successes of attackers, defender is untouched. If he doesn't fully dodge it still lowers.
Final question can the defender stage damage like you do with a bullet. Or is it just defender has not resisted he is screwed full whatever the mage generated for successes of damage (i.e. mage gabe deadly stun stunbolt, thus defender is unconscious)
I hope I'm not asking anything in a confusing way. (I thought I understoud magic ::slowly is re-reading magic section in BBB, and Magic in the Shadows, another time.:: I blame this on freaken FASA going under. I know I use to know this well. Aaggghhhh!
Okay you resist a spell as the defender by getting same or more successes then the mage?
I'm still unsure about elemental manipulation spells (and other spells you can dodge, ummm I'm appling that I'm asking what type of spells you can dodge.) anyways dodge works like dodging bullets if defender equals successes of attackers, defender is untouched. If he doesn't fully dodge it still lowers.
Final question can the defender stage damage like you do with a bullet. Or is it just defender has not resisted he is screwed full whatever the mage generated for successes of damage (i.e. mage gabe deadly stun stunbolt, thus defender is unconscious)
I hope I'm not asking anything in a confusing way. (I thought I understoud magic ::slowly is re-reading magic section in BBB, and Magic in the Shadows, another time.:: I blame this on freaken FASA going under. I know I use to know this well. Aaggghhhh!
I thank everything holy that this thread has not touched conjuring yet... And I fear for the metamagic. 
252:
Using spell resistance dice (usually the target of the spell, with potential aid from a spellslinger's sorcery dice), if you get equal to or more successes, the spell fizzles, caster takes drain. If the caster gets 1 net success, the spell succeeds. on some spells, staging occurs.. and I forget off the top of my head if the victim gets to make a damage resistance test, but I assume so. Think of it like a form of melee combat, as the rules are similar (except the defender cannot attack back).
Elemental Manip spells are treated just like ranged attacks (including that they cannot go through transparent barriers, unless they beat the barrier's rating).. Except they have those nasty secondary effects, as well as the whole drain thing. You resist them just like dodging a bullet -- if you score more successes than the caster did, you dodge, otherwise you add those successful dodge dice to your damage resistance test. As dodging is standard 4 TN, compared to whatever the heck power the spell may be, I see that as a plus. It is in this case that I am flipped, however, for I do not know if sorcery dice can be added as spell resistance to EMS's (I would assume so, but assumptions = bad).
This, of course, only pertains to combat and EM spells. The other spells have their own quirks and interests.. and when you go about memorizing them, you get to see why most totems prod you towards specializations.
Foci are your friends.
Athenor
252:
Using spell resistance dice (usually the target of the spell, with potential aid from a spellslinger's sorcery dice), if you get equal to or more successes, the spell fizzles, caster takes drain. If the caster gets 1 net success, the spell succeeds. on some spells, staging occurs.. and I forget off the top of my head if the victim gets to make a damage resistance test, but I assume so. Think of it like a form of melee combat, as the rules are similar (except the defender cannot attack back).
Elemental Manip spells are treated just like ranged attacks (including that they cannot go through transparent barriers, unless they beat the barrier's rating).. Except they have those nasty secondary effects, as well as the whole drain thing. You resist them just like dodging a bullet -- if you score more successes than the caster did, you dodge, otherwise you add those successful dodge dice to your damage resistance test. As dodging is standard 4 TN, compared to whatever the heck power the spell may be, I see that as a plus. It is in this case that I am flipped, however, for I do not know if sorcery dice can be added as spell resistance to EMS's (I would assume so, but assumptions = bad).
This, of course, only pertains to combat and EM spells. The other spells have their own quirks and interests.. and when you go about memorizing them, you get to see why most totems prod you towards specializations.
Foci are your friends.
Athenor
| QUOTE |
| nd I forget off the top of my head if the victim gets to make a damage resistance test, but I assume so. |
No. The spell resistance test is all you get to reduce the damage. If a D stunball hits you and gets one net success you are unconcious. nighty night. that's it. No body roll to resist damage further.
Are you -absolutely- sure about this, Bit? It seems overkill, but I trust this has been discussed to death. being my anal self, I'm prolly going to double-check it for myself, but to have no levels of fragged between "Brain explodes" and "not a scratch" seems kinda an antithesis of what Shadowrun is built on.
Athenor
Athenor
Yep, that's the way it is and that's why Combat spells are so nasty.
I am positive that is correct.
This is why you want to cast spells at high force to make them hard to resist, and then those high force spells have hard to resist drain. Remember, everything I stated applies only to Combat Spells, not Elemental Manipulations or other types.
This is why you want to cast spells at high force to make them hard to resist, and then those high force spells have hard to resist drain. Remember, everything I stated applies only to Combat Spells, not Elemental Manipulations or other types.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.