Aaron
May 26 2006, 06:27 PM
In On the Run page 23, there's an Ork named G-Man. He's got a cyber arm:
| QUOTE (On the Run @ p. 23) |
Cyberware: Obvious Cyberarm (Left, Armor 4, BOD 7, STR 7, AGI 4, Machine Pistol)
|
It's the only cyberware or bioware he's got, and his Essence is 4.6.
Meanwhile, in the BBB, we have this:
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p.335) |
Cyberlimbs cannot hold any bioware, nor any cyberimplants that take up Essence rather than Capacity. [...] All cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes of 3. [...] Only characters with a cybertorso can have cyberlimb enhancements with a rating higher than 3.
|
So, on the surface, it appears that our chummer G-Man has purchased 4 points of armor, 4 points of BOD, 4 points of STR, and 1 point of AGI, and a machine pistol, for a total Capacity of 21, which is 6 more than a cyber-arm can handle.
Now, since an arm is only 1 essence, and G-Man has lost 1.4 essence, we could assume that the machine pistol is purchased in Essence, and as such doesn't count against the Capacity of the arm, which would mean that the total Capacity is 17, which is only 2 more than a cyber-arm can handle. However, the rules seem to state that cyber-arms cannot take implants that cost Essence, although there seems to be some room for argument.
Now, as for the attribute increases, the Agility is okay, but the Strength and Body could not be, as one cannot increase a cyberlimb's attribute more than 3 without a cybertorso. Now, if a cyberlimb's base attributes are automatically adjusted for race, this would work fine, but I haven't been able to find any text to that effect.
Has anybody seen any explanation for this, or is this merely a piece of errata on the part of On the Run?
Shrike30
May 26 2006, 07:05 PM
It sounds like they're breaking their own rules, or using rules that will be introduced in Arsenal (so that while it confuses us for a few months, it'll be in-line with the rules we will get soon). Of course, the book also says "Only requires the main book to play" somewhere in there, so that's just annoying.
An easy essence fix would be to assume the cybergun is in the other arm. Why is beyond me...
Who's doing continuity checking over there?
Moon-Hawk
May 26 2006, 07:09 PM
It definitely looks like an "ork cyberarm"
Base of: Bod 6, Agi 3, Str 5, capacity 15 essence 1
With 4 armor, +1 bod, +2 str, +1 agi (total 12/15 capacity used)
Plus the cyber machine pistol for zero capacity and 0.4 essence.
It works if you assume his "ork cyberarm" has stats of 3+ork modifiers, and if you assume he can get his gun to not use capacity. The first part of that makes perfect sense to me, and is how I've been running it. The second part confuses me, though.
mdynna
May 26 2006, 07:10 PM
Yup, sounds like a good-old-fashioned rules break in the adventure. Don't tell your players, they'll never know.
Shrike30
May 26 2006, 07:20 PM
It's just... raaagh. I go out, I get this adventure partially to use as examples of the rules in action, so that I can have more points of reference (as the rules are vaguer than I'd like, at points) and i find out that some of the rules that are pretty clearly written are either being ignored, or my reading of them is really skewed.
Tarantula
May 26 2006, 07:20 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
It definitely looks like an "ork cyberarm"
Base of: Bod 6, Agi 3, Str 5, capacity 15 essence 1
With 4 armor, +1 bod, +2 str, +1 agi (total 12/15 capacity used)
Plus the cyber machine pistol for zero capacity and 0.4 essence.
It works if you assume his "ork cyberarm" has stats of 3+ork modifiers, and if you assume he can get his gun to not use capacity. The first part of that makes perfect sense to me, and is how I've been running it. The second part confuses me, though. |
Sure... but the kicker is in SR4 where it says that "All cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes of 3." on pg 335.
Moon-Hawk
May 26 2006, 07:28 PM
I am perfectly aware of that, Tarantula. The rules are very clear. The rules are also, IMO, stupid.
Tarantula
May 26 2006, 07:56 PM
Agreed.
Moon-Hawk
May 26 2006, 08:33 PM
Haha, glad we agree on that.
Any idea what's up with the machine pistol, though? Even if we assume that Arsenal will be introducing metahuman cyberlimbs as many expect, I still can't make sense the pistol.
mdynna
May 26 2006, 08:37 PM
I may be possible that the author was working with an old version of the rules. Then didn't bother to back-check against the final version.
Moon-Hawk
May 26 2006, 09:32 PM
I hadn't thought of that.
Drat! How could cyberlimbs be so messed up again!?
Kanada Ten
May 26 2006, 10:16 PM
Well, let's read this line very loose:
"Cyberlimbs cannot hold any bioware, nor any cyberimplants that take up Essence rather than Capacity."
Well, all the ork's cyberlimb enhancements have a Capacity rating, and therefore can be added to a cyberlimb even when they exceed the Capacity rating - at which point they begin to take addition Essence. The rule is meant to prevent ware like Muscle Replacement, which have no Capacity option.
Is the Body and Strength a possible average of the Ork's natural Body and Strength and those of the cyberlimb? What about the Armor?
Aaron
May 27 2006, 12:03 AM
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| Is the Body and Strength a possible average of the Ork's natural Body and Strength and those of the cyberlimb? What about the Armor? |
Don't bring up cyberlimbs and armor. It's for your own good. Really. We've had a number of topics about it all ready, and some folks are rather insistent that their interpretation is correct. Ultimately, somebody says we should wait for Arsenal and the thread peters out.
But the real way to do cyberlimb armor is to add it to the armor rating, straight-up. =)
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