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GrinderTheTroll
I've been thinking about the last thread discussion about this and I convinced myself that Agents = IC and IC = Agents. Not from anything explicitly stating the fact, although that's been the subject of my argument in the past what's convinced me was looking at an example of when you're own commlink comes under attack and your own defenses come into play.

If I had my own Commlink-5 loaded with programs and Agents, they indeed count againt my own Sysx2 Reponse limit. If I have IC or Agents offline that come online, they begin to count against my node's Sysx2 Reponse limit. In all respects, Agents and IC are the same. They both count against node load and function the same. If an invading Agent or IC came into my node, it too would inccur load and count against my own Sysx2 limit. Just because it's not mine, doesn't mean I don't pay for it's bandwidth. The fact is, it's running on my machine and not on another Persona.

Turning the table on my example and infiltrating my own node, I can see how my outside Agent would inccur load on the Commlink as would it's own Agent or IC response to the alert (the latter is noted explicitly on SR4.228).

Regarding DOS attacks, there is no mention of Reponse < 1, so the worst that can happen is IC and other programs ratings are effectively 1 giving you a bonus (-4 to their dice rolls in most cases) but not limiting your own local programs. Interestingly, if you trip an alarm (+4 Firewall) and DOS a Rating 5 node (-4 rating), these would offset each other making it no easier to brute-force hack the node without an alert.

With this in mind as well as my prior bouts about this, I'll conclude that, yes, IC=Agent and Agent=IC.

Thanks all for contributions to this topic.

Regards,

~GTT
stevebugge
That's been my understanding too, which in a way makes IC potentially even more dnagerous then it was before, now it's easy to customize. Just wait until Unwired comes out, at the very least it will have a bunch of new utilities, at best it may have program design rules.
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (stevebugge)
That's been my understanding too, which in a way makes IC potentially even more dnagerous then it was before, now it's easy to customize.  Just wait until Unwired comes out, at the very least it will have a bunch of new utilities, at best it may have program design rules.

Yeah that means a single IC-5 could have (9) Rating-5 programs loaded before the IC itself suffered a local Reponse limit beyond what it inherits from the node it's on.
mdynna
An important thing to note is that for an Agent to start running on a target Node you must spend a Complex Action to load it there. Just because the Agent is running on your Commlink doesn't mean it automatically enters the target Node when your Persona does.
stevebugge
Here's an ugly idea:

Hacker breaks in to system, but trips an alarm.

A Rating 5 IC agent loads:
It's loaded with Track, Exploit, Stealth, Edit, Analyze, and a Big Nasty Data Bomb.

Rather than engage the Hacker, it evades him and tries to follow the data trail back to the Hackers commlink where it starts trashing and databombing his local files.
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (stevebugge)
Here's an ugly idea:

Hacker breaks in to system, but trips an alarm.

A Rating 5 IC agent loads:
It's loaded with Track, Exploit, Stealth, Edit, Analyze, and a Big Nasty Data Bomb.

Rather than engage the Hacker, it evades him and tries to follow the data trail back to the Hackers commlink where it starts trashing and databombing his local files.

I don't know if data bomb works on unwilling files or just targets specific ones.

Another neat trick would be to erase the Commlinks subscription list or as you mentioned, start erasing all offline files.

2070 virus code is fun!
hobgoblin
QUOTE (mdynna @ Jun 1 2006, 12:40 AM)
An important thing to note is that for an Agent to start running on a target Node you must spend a Complex Action to load it there.  Just because the Agent is running on your Commlink doesn't mean it automatically enters the target Node when your Persona does.

oh but they do follow your persona over. its just when you want them to operate outside of your comlink that you have to spend a complex action to upload them.

thats why you can in theory pack weapon platform agents and similar and do the whole "pokemon" thing with them wink.gif

ie, as long as your connected/activly subscribed to a node, the agents can operate on said node without being uploaded there...

hell, thinking about it im starting to wonder if not future joe wageslave home software will be more in the area of agents loaded with the proper utilitys rather then just the utilitys. ie, they become a kind of personal secretary.

joe to comlink: hey, find me the news vid about the lastes urban brawl matches!

agent with search on comlink: yet sir.
DarkCrisis
IC and Agents can have a certian amount of programs in them, but do these programs count against the limit the node or commlink has?

Say you have a Rating 3 Agent with Analyze, Attack, & Exploit in it. Well assuming you could the Agent thats 4 programs! Or is it considered just 1? If so why?
hobgoblin
in my view yes, the agent counts as only one program. but to be honest i dont see it realy spelled out that way in the book, anywhere...
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (DarkCrisis @ Jun 1 2006, 06:46 AM)
IC and Agents can have  a certian amount of programs in them, but do these programs count against the limit the node or commlink has?

Say you have a Rating 3 Agent with Analyze, Attack, & Exploit in it.  Well assuming you could the Agent thats 4 programs!  Or is it considered just 1?  If so why?

The book mentions that the Agent/IC can overload it payload but will suffers it own Sysx2 penalties.

I'd argue that it only counts as one program since it doesn't really start working until you launch it and then starts using the Reponse of the node it's on. While loaded in your Persona it's more just "packed away" until you need it. Someone said it best with the Pokemon reference, lol.
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