So my Seattle-based team is about to head a little east to the Cascade Mountain range, we're looking for a Dragon Lair (and hoping she's not home). My character is a rigger/hacker, and he's got his GM-Nissan Doberman with him. The text describes the Dobie as a "crawler", which I assume means legs, and therefore is an anthroform. The GM wasn't so sure the Dobie could make it over rocks and whatnot, so I had the mage levitate it along.
Our true rigger is meeting us there after he does some more recon, and he has a Steel Lynx with him. Does anyone have any idea if the Lynx has legs big enough to walk over rocky terrain, or if it has useless wheels or semi-useful caterpillar treads or what?
Full Version: Anthroform v. Groundcraft Drones
I don't think "crawler" means it has legs. I'm not positive, but I think R3 defined that term as having wheels or treads. I don't know, I don't remember exactly, but I think "walker" was the term they defined as having legs. And legs do not an anthroform make. For a drone to be an anthroform, it must not only have legs but be roughly human shaped. That's, uh, what the word means.
Regarding the Lynx, I remember the picture of that distinctly and I would think it could get over rocks, but not very quickly.
Regarding the Lynx, I remember the picture of that distinctly and I would think it could get over rocks, but not very quickly.
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Thread
Thread
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| I don't think "crawler" means it has legs. I'm not positive, but I think R3 defined that term as having wheels or treads. I don't know, I don't remember exactly, but I think "walker" was the term they defined as having legs. And legs do not an anthroform make. For a drone to be an anthroform, it must not only have legs but be roughly human shaped. That's, uh, what the word means. Regarding the Lynx, I remember the picture of that distinctly and I would think it could get over rocks, but not very quickly. |
Maybe they changed the defintion of Anthroform since SR3. On page 126, in the skill section, Pilot Anthroform:
"This skill is used to operate any vehicle that walks on legs."
And Pilot Groundcraft:
"Characters use Pilot Ground Craft to control ground vehicles without legs, whether remotely or in person."
Struck me as really weird, too. I guess a Shiawase Kanmushi bug is an anthroform.
What about the MCT FlySpy? Anthroform on the ground and Aircraft when flying?
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| This recent thread has a picture: Thread |
Dagnabbit, that pic has legs with wheels on the end! WTF? Anthro or not?
| QUOTE (Glayvin34 @ Jun 8 2006, 11:18 AM) |
| Maybe they changed the defintion of Anthroform since SR3. On page 126, in the skill section, Pilot Anthroform: "This skill is used to operate any vehicle that walks on legs." And Pilot Groundcraft: "Characters use Pilot Ground Craft to control ground vehicles without legs, whether remotely or in person." Struck me as really weird, too. I guess a Shiawase Kanmushi bug is an anthroform. |
I will submit to the word of the holy scripture, but if anything with legs uses the Pilot Anthroform skill, then the skill is poorly named. The word "Anthroform" means human-shaped.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| I will submit to the word of the holy scripture, but if anything with legs uses the Pilot Anthroform skill, then the skill is poorly named. The word "Anthroform" means human-shaped. |
I agree whole-heartedly. Should've called it "Arthroform", arthro- means joint. Or "pedaform" or simply "walker". They've got no excuse on this one. I mean, c'mon, Anthropology, Anthropomorphism, you'd think the SR folk would be better steeped in latin prefixes.
It doesn't walk, it doesn't have "legs." The Steel Lynx has some funky-ass suspension, but I don't see any knees or ankles on that thing. Looks kind of inspired by Tachikomas, but it doesn't have the amount of articulation required to actually walk. All it can do is adjust the height and placement of it's wheels. Be kinda handy for rough terrain, but I don't think it could do stairs. Doesn't look like there's enough range of motion in the suspension to ascend a staircase.
true, by the images the "legs" more tilt at the base, nothing more. now if it could extend and rectract the length, like say with another joint or some other system then maybe.
step by step:
- raise the whole construction on 3 wheels (i hope its balanced enough for that). two in the back, one in front.
- put 4th wheel onto step
- lift the body with the 4th wheel
- place the other front wheel onto same step.
- here is where you get into trouble unless the stairs are so flat that it can swing one of the front wheels up without hitting the step.
now, it could try to "pop" up its front if the "legs" can be moved fast enough. but that will take some precicion timing...
step by step:
- raise the whole construction on 3 wheels (i hope its balanced enough for that). two in the back, one in front.
- put 4th wheel onto step
- lift the body with the 4th wheel
- place the other front wheel onto same step.
- here is where you get into trouble unless the stairs are so flat that it can swing one of the front wheels up without hitting the step.
now, it could try to "pop" up its front if the "legs" can be moved fast enough. but that will take some precicion timing...
It looks like it was either:
Designed for an episode of "Pimp my Drone"
or more likely
Designed to pop up to fire from a hidden position, such as behind a low wall or berm. Imagine if you had these thing patroling in low profile mode behind a 1 meter high concrete wall tompped with another two meters of chainlink fence or concertina wire or something else that you can fire through with little difficulty, and once a motion sensor or camera or security rigger spots indruders they can pop these things up to confront them.
Designed for an episode of "Pimp my Drone"
or more likely
Designed to pop up to fire from a hidden position, such as behind a low wall or berm. Imagine if you had these thing patroling in low profile mode behind a 1 meter high concrete wall tompped with another two meters of chainlink fence or concertina wire or something else that you can fire through with little difficulty, and once a motion sensor or camera or security rigger spots indruders they can pop these things up to confront them.
Crawler means caterpillar tracks. This is what a Doberman has, they are good for uneven and unstable ground but large rocks will stop them
The steal lynx is wheeled abut it has its wheals on eth end of legs, this allows it to climb stares, and presumably rocky ground, all be it slowly. I believe the design intent was to be able to move in moderately confined spaces (inside buildings) while having the stability of a wide base
Both would use the pilot ground craft skill.
The steal lynx is wheeled abut it has its wheals on eth end of legs, this allows it to climb stares, and presumably rocky ground, all be it slowly. I believe the design intent was to be able to move in moderately confined spaces (inside buildings) while having the stability of a wide base
Both would use the pilot ground craft skill.
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| Crawler means caterpillar tracks. This is what a Doberman has, they are good for uneven and unstable ground but large rocks will stop them |
Well, at least having the Mage levitate the dobie was the right idea, even if we went about it for the wrong reasons.
In looking at the pic of the Lynx I couldn't tell if those accordian-looking spots allowed the legs to rise very far up, if so the Lynx could "step" over larger rocks and what not. If that accordian joint area is just suspension, it looks like the Lynx does a good job on concrete or a lawn, but not in the woods and rocks east of Seattle. Guess the mage is going to have to hike his ass over to the Lynx and levitate it over the rocks, too.
Honestly having done a bit of hiking in the Cascades, your runners would have been better off bringing airborne drones. The terrain just isn't very friendly to ground vehicles period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail
A good starting point for some Cascades research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail
A good starting point for some Cascades research.
| QUOTE (stevebugge) |
| Honestly having done a bit of hiking in the Cascades, your runners would have been better off bringing airborne drones. The terrain just isn't very friendly to ground vehicles period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail A good starting point for some Cascades research. |
Holy shit, that's gorgeous. I need to get outta the desert.
The pictures on that link of the Mt Hood Wilderness and North Cascades National Park are good samples of what a lot of the Seattle-area wilderness looks like.
Up in the mountains, ground drones are not your best choice. The ground is rough and vegetation-heavy, and the hills can be very steep (as the whole mountain range was carved by glacial flow). If the mountain is tall enough to have snow at the peaks year round (as many of them are), their sides will be criss-crossed with little rivers, which cut across trails and leave muddy or very rocky swathes of rough terrain. Even the trails can have sudden vertical climbs steep and rough enough that a wheeled drone, leggy suspension or no, is going to have a rough go of it... the Mount Si trail, despite heavy switchbacking, climbs 3500 feet in a little over 3 miles, with some of those bits involving climbing hand-and-foot up messes of roots and set logs for 3-6 feet.
Honestly, if you're trying to get around outside of developed structures or urban areas, wheels and even treads are not the greatest choice out here, between the mud, loose rocks, and heavy mat of ground cover (that often has places where, if you put your weight while you're climbing over it, you might suddenly break through the branch you're standing on and drop a couple of feet). Flying drones, even if they just hover nearby, would be much better, and could be used to pop up from behind downed trees, or to skim below the canopy of the forest to mark targets downrange (as the woods and brush can be quite heavy).
Up in the mountains, ground drones are not your best choice. The ground is rough and vegetation-heavy, and the hills can be very steep (as the whole mountain range was carved by glacial flow). If the mountain is tall enough to have snow at the peaks year round (as many of them are), their sides will be criss-crossed with little rivers, which cut across trails and leave muddy or very rocky swathes of rough terrain. Even the trails can have sudden vertical climbs steep and rough enough that a wheeled drone, leggy suspension or no, is going to have a rough go of it... the Mount Si trail, despite heavy switchbacking, climbs 3500 feet in a little over 3 miles, with some of those bits involving climbing hand-and-foot up messes of roots and set logs for 3-6 feet.
Honestly, if you're trying to get around outside of developed structures or urban areas, wheels and even treads are not the greatest choice out here, between the mud, loose rocks, and heavy mat of ground cover (that often has places where, if you put your weight while you're climbing over it, you might suddenly break through the branch you're standing on and drop a couple of feet). Flying drones, even if they just hover nearby, would be much better, and could be used to pop up from behind downed trees, or to skim below the canopy of the forest to mark targets downrange (as the woods and brush can be quite heavy).
Some of the park and area links have links to topographic maps too. Lots of good wilderness run resources and links in the wiki articles, make sure your players have the appropriate survival skills 
I'll just return my drones to Costco and exchange them for flying ones, then. Oh, dammit! I got them from that one-legged dwarf in the back of that alley in the barrens, not Costco... Wonder if he'll give me store credit?
I'm hoping the gear book changes Pilot:Ground(anthroform) to Pilot:Biomorphic (biped, quadruped, piscine, avian, insectoid) and includes some drones based on larger animal forms. I could use a drone built like a devil rat, maybe a stealthed pigeon drone, and a snake drone.
| QUOTE (Glayvin34) |
| I'll just return my drones to Costco and exchange them for flying ones, then. Oh, dammit! I got them from that one-legged dwarf in the back of that alley in the barrens, not Costco... Wonder if he'll give me store credit? |
Mmm. Twelve packs of steel lynxes.
Speaking of drones, now that Deus is long kicked out of the arcology, where are all the drones based on Spiders, Medusae and Gorgons? Something like that would be ideal for running around the Cascades.
The Cascades are beautiful, but not at all drone friendly. Pretty much Choppers LAV's and maybe Blimps would be your only worthwhile air support.
If you're on trails some of the ground drones in the book would be okay, but the second you step off the trail you'd need a far more Deusesque drone. It's mostly temperate jungle with everything that the word 'jungle' implies about how easy it is(n't) to travel cross country. There are places where it could easily take an hour for a group to travel a quarter of a mile.
My advice?
Buy a big-ass blimp with vector-thrust control. And by big-ass, I mean "big as a house in the occupiable space, able to lift several metric tonnes."
Then you use it to air-drop your drones for recon. Explore the mountains from the warmth and safety of your very own turbo-powered jetblimp.
Buy a big-ass blimp with vector-thrust control. And by big-ass, I mean "big as a house in the occupiable space, able to lift several metric tonnes."
Then you use it to air-drop your drones for recon. Explore the mountains from the warmth and safety of your very own turbo-powered jetblimp.
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