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DgrenJ
QUOTE
Page 138 SR4
Twitch the elf samurai is chasing down an opponent.
Hes an elf, so his Running Rate is 25 meters per
Combat Turn. This particular Combat Turn is three
Initiative Passes long, so he moves (25 3) 8 meters
per pass. If Twitch stopped running for one pass to help
up somebody his opponent knocked over, then he would
only be moving 16 meters that Combat Turn.


Here is my question...

Not so much about running, but lets assume 2 humans, 1 with a single initiative pass, and 1 with 3 initiative passes.

By reading that exerpt above I understand that the human with multiple initiatve passes will only move 3 meters a turn, for a grand total of 9, where as the human with a single initiative pass will move his one full movement of 10 per pass.

Am I reading this wrong, because that makes no sense to me at all that a human with a single initiative pass could not only move more at once, but more total due to the division (rounding down) being a 9.

Any help?

- DgrenJ
Tarantula
add the remainder to the last pass. So, if you were to run for all 3 passes, you'd be running 3 meters + 3 meters + 4 meters.
DgrenJ
Thank you, but that still makes me a bit curious that the human with a single init pass moves his/her full 10 on one pass, and the human with 3 has to break theirs down.

Would this not occasionally benefit the human with a single init pass in that they could move from say one obstacle to another avoiding fire, where as the "wired up" Human with 3 might not be able to traverse the entire distance in one movement?

See where I am going with this?

- DgrenJ
HalloranElder
I play it so that every single person in a combat has the same number of initiative passes as whoever has the most (three in the case of your example) but you can't act on more than the number you are supposed to have.

So, in that example if Mr Normal decides all he wants to do is move, he moves his 3 meters the first initiative pass, then three the second and finally 4 on the last, while his friend Mr WiredUpTheKazoo decides to move in the first pass (and moves 3 meters) then he decides to move in the second pass (and again moves 3 meters) and finally decides to move again in the 3rd initiave pass (and moves the final 4 meters).

The difference is that Mr Normal doesn't get a choice on what to do in passes 2 and 3, while Mr WiredUpTheKazoo can chose to do other things in the 2nd and 3rd pass.

Make sense?
Jaid
the best way i have seen of handling this is to split up the movement for everyone by the highest number of IPs in the combat.

that is, if the person with the most IPs has 3, then everyone splits their movement (and only their movement) into 3 rounds.
DgrenJ
Awesome...

Thank you for the help.

- DgrenJ
ornot
That's not actually a situation I'd thought of, but I can see how it'd come up.

I like the solutions offered, so should the issue come up I'll have an answer now! Thanks guys!
James McMurray
Reread that example. It isn't saying that Twitch has 3 passes so he moves three times, it's saying that the turn has 3 passes so he moves 3 times. Everybody has an opportunity t move on every pass, at a rate eqqual to their base rate divided by the number of passes. No house rules or interpretations are necessary, as it's spelled out in the text.
Shinobi Killfist
I kind of miss SR2 where you got your full momement every pass and sams were running 60+kph. Because you know they built them stronger, faster and all that.

But hey this way at least the standard grenade isn't absurd in power just the airburst kind are. Run from the grenade everyone, run cause its doing 12p.
Jaid
grenades should be able to kill groups of tightly packed people in one shot. i fail to see how that makes them "overpowered" that getting hit directly with a grenade is really likely to be fatal.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Jaid)
grenades should be able to kill groups of tightly packed people in one shot. i fail to see how that makes them "overpowered" that getting hit directly with a grenade is really likely to be fatal.

1: its a game not real life, so anything that drops packs of people for 50 bucks can be a bit overpowered.

2: greandes generally don't kill packs of people in real life, sure they can in the right situations, but they generally don't. And besides my point is since you can move away from a grenade and reduce their damage considerably there not overpowered.

Airburst grenades which end up being instant death to someone maybe even to groups seem to be overpowered to me. Whether its realistic or not isn't the issue, the cost to kill with absurd ease is. I have trouble seeing why every grenade launcher doesn't have a range finder and doesn't fire air burst grenades.

Which would mean to me I have toruble seeing any SR team surviving any real oposition for more than 1 combat turn. And when I have to suspend my beleif and hav eveyone but the players run in dumb mode and not have airburst grenades so they can survive a CT and have some fun, the weapon becomes overpowered to me. To many basic equipment weapons like many assault rifles come with grenade launchers, its just too big of a stretch for me to not have any grenade launchers on the opposition. I can justify the lack of heavy weapons like the PAC, but a basic grenade launcher that comes standard on 1/2 the assault rifles I can't justify not bumping into semi regularly.

Grenades only give a damage resistance test, there isn't a opposed test and there damage starts out at the level of a really successful shot or a full burst. There should be a reflex check to see how many meters you can get away from the blast or something.
James McMurray
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist)
Grenades only give a damage resistance test, there isn't a opposed test and there damage starts out at the level of a really successful shot or a full burst. There should be a reflex check to see how many meters you can get away from the blast or something.

There are rules for dodging grenades, they just aren't in the grenades section. There's even a listed dice pool modifier for dodging grenades. Do a search for grenades and you should find a few threads discussing the various interpretations of the vague rules. Our group (to my chagrin) uses the interpreatation that if you get as many dodge successes as the attacker gets placement successes you avoid the grenade entirely.
Nim
Remember that lethal grenades are niche weapons. They're powerful in situations that play to their strengths, but they have many disadvantages that should be ruling out their use in a wide number of situations. For instance:

* They're obvious. If the runners start popping off air-burst explosive grenades, they've entirely given up on subtlety.
* They're indiscriminate. They don't care what's in the blast radius. They'll kill hostages. They'll injure allies. They'll do serious damage to the surrounding real-estate, which is a problem if the fight is taking place in a room full of (for instance) equipment that your hacker is supposed to extract data from next.
* They're military-grade weapons, and they signal to the other side that you're not drawing any lines about the level of violence you're willing to commit. They'll draw a proportional response from security. Runners who open up with grenade launchers w/ lethal payloads should expect the reinforcements who come after them to be armed to fight a war...full reinforced armor, military-grade vehicles, heavy weapons.

I keep saying 'lethal grenades', etc etc to distinguish from things like smoke and gas grenades, which are a different story.

In general, if you're using grenades, you've decided that you're going to go for the full-on, brute-force, blow-them-to-hell-and-scram approach. Either your mission went pear-shaped and you're trying to blast your way out, or you're going in guns-blazing (and are probably going to get yourself killed).
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (James McMurray)
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Jun 19 2006, 11:52 AM)
Grenades only give a damage resistance test, there isn't a opposed test and there damage starts out at the level of a really successful shot or a full burst.  There should be a reflex check to see how many meters you can get away from the blast or something.

There are rules for dodging grenades, they just aren't in the grenades section. There's even a listed dice pool modifier for dodging grenades. Do a search for grenades and you should find a few threads discussing the various interpretations of the vague rules. Our group (to my chagrin) uses the interpreatation that if you get as many dodge successes as the attacker gets placement successes you avoid the grenade entirely.

Thanks, I'll try to track that down. My interpretation of the airburst grenades led to the overkill death of 1/2 the party in one initiative pass while they where doing the smart things like hide behind cover, in some level of darkness.
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