I was wondering how do you and your group of SR players play shadowrun and how do you deal with distance in combat.

#1. Do you use grid/hex maps with walls and furniture and stuff or do you just describe things?

#2. If you just describe the layouts like, your team goes through the door and is now facing a 50m long hallway with doors going to the left and to the right at the far end, how do you handle the distance between targets??

Do you do something like initiative pass determines range? Pass 1 = long, pass 2 = medium, and pass 3-4 = short

I keep track of the distance between peoplein my head. When they move I adjust appropriatly. I'm considering getting a wipe clean hex map. It'll be easier on the old noggin.

I just tell the players where everything is. In larger combats we break out a whiteboard, and I draw up a map. Red is bad guys, Blue is PCs.

I don't use a grid/hex map for SR. Too much effort to go to for a system that isn't really designed for it.

Gridpaper and whiteboards. Failing that, lots and lots of scrap paper.

-Tir

I run online, so grids and the like are impractical. I do use blue prints when it's a complex layout. Generally I just rely on good description and mostly blur over distances (especially distances and travel). Distance has no impact on initiative (although I am thinking of bringing in the SR4 rule that a take aim action must be used before scope bonuses come into play).

We use a square grid battlemat for pretty much every RPG we play.

The last major fight scene we used a wipe clean hexmap. It got cumbersome counting hexes and such so we used a tape measure for distance. Turns out it worked well for line of sight too.

I don't play online, but I usually do what nezumi does, and only draw out a little map when things get complicated and several people need to weigh their tactical options at once. I always give people with active rangefinders a made up number to 3 decimal places when describing an area they just entered, though.
I find that mapping tends to make efficient supersoldiers out of every player, and so use it sparingly.

I keep track of everything in my head. Combats usually don't last too horribly long, so I find maps for SR not needed.

so far i dont care. unless they specificaly want a long shot, its basicly close range anyways. ok, so its not realy realistic in that what is short range for a rifle is often medium or even long for a handgun, but how often are the runners outside and at ranges furthers then 10-15 meters away from the attacker anyways?

All the time in my games. I still only draw very basic, rough maps in complex tactical situations, just describing the surroundings in most cases.

open park grounds?

Snipers doing overwatch for a group entering a facility outside of urban terrain. Vehicle ambushes. Industrial areas (large halls, large parking areas). Being caught in the open when infiltrating a facility. Etc. etc.

A very common scenario for Seattle... docks. You can easily end up in trouble with both people on rootops and boats on the water, and at ranges your pistol won't handle.

A smart group of 'Runners would want to use the distance thing to their advantage. If you can take out a few guards or whoever from over a mile away (the effective range of a 50 cal sniper rifle in the real world) then why wouldn't you?

I attempt to keep the ranges fairly abstract in my game. I just try to keep a mental note of where everyone is and in larger fire fights just get a piece of paper and mark it up. If I'm expecting some major battles, I'll get a dry erase marker (a small one I can keep hidden; I might let the players see it if they use battle tac now and then). Just make up a scale and POOF, instant combat map

One thing I do is when people ask the distance in combat, I first ask if they have a range finder. whether through adept power (if there is one, I don't recall), cyberware, or even good old binoculars. THEN I'll give them the precise distance.

Without those, I require an intelligence check IF they ask to estimate it. The better the roll, the better the estimate. If they get nothing higher than a four, then I'll say "He's not next to you, that's all you guess" but if they get something like an eight or a nine, I'll give them a real distance with a margin of a few meters. If the target's well within the range band, it's a non-issue. If it's on the edge between range bands, I'll throw which ever one seems more appropriate.

If they don't ask the range, I just give them the target number to hit. It creates a little legwork for the GM, but I've got no complaints. An advantage to this system as well is if you have multiple people on the same team, they have a good idea of how far away they are as well. Sure, it's a little meta-gamey, but I don't mind honestly. Besides, they all know what happens if EACH of them asks the distance...

So you wouldn't give them a "he's at least 30 feet away" if they got no fours on the test?

And what happens if they all ask the distance? I would assume they'd get to roll and come up with a fairly good approximation between them, but your post sounds much more ominous than that.

ok, i guess i wasnt detailed enough in my reply.

i will apply range and stuff like that when someone is doing the sniping bit. but when you have your avarage "both sides aware" gunfight i dont realy care, so many other things are going on that it just adds to the amount of data needed to track...

a boat situation will most likely be something like a chase, and there range is integrated in the distance bands between vehicles.

rooftops to rooftops depends. are the people shooting from the far end of one rooftop to the far end of another? at that distance one is more likely that someone will slip over the side and try a flanking movement anyways...

to James:
my tone was ominious in that if they genuinely ask wanting to know, I'll oblige them. and i was just throwing out figures. basically, the better the roll the more accurate the estimate. But the ominous tone was if they decide to create more work for me out of spite (and I know when they do it). That's when stuff gets thrown at them. But we keep it generally good-hearted.

to X-Kalibur:
actually, I think that smartlinks don't come with range finders. You have to get that built in if I recall. Besides, only two people in my group have smartlinks (out of eight), and it doesn't come up very often. But I've been wrong before, and I'm the first to admit it!

I don't know your group's dynamic, but I know that in my group asking how far away someone is would never be out of spite, but out of a need to know what the world around them looks like. If they've been told in the past "he looks about 20 feet away" and then found out that he was actually 50 feet away they'd start asking and rolling every time because there's a huge difference between those two in terms of who can get where and when.

I was asking mainly out of concern for weapon ranges. I think I would do something very similar to vehicles. Both sides roll a test and who ever win gets to add or subtract the range they are fighting at by 1. So you could go from long to medium but you couldnt go from long to short.

This is assuming everybody in a group is moving together though which would be kinda dumb realistically. but it sounds like it would work fine.

Two things ...

Are you talking sr4? Never read that or found that in sr2 or sr3. any page references?

If you hit the TN you hit the TN ... flip a switch ... black and white.

No, I'm talking SR3. IIRC Stealth is an example of an open test.