OK so it clearly states in the book under the hacking and computer skills yes for defaulting. If this is true why would any hack take skills when he can Max is logic to 7 and take cerebral enhancer at 2 and wherefore have an effective skill 8
(-1 default) in all computer and hacking skills except EW and costing 75 bp.

Because you roll skill + linked att?

With a lot of the actual hacking stuff, the roll is skill + program rating. So, defaulting to the attribute (if you can max it out in a frightening way) would actually be an effective strategy, assuming your GM doesn't set you on fire for doing it.

Of course, you lose out some on the stat + skill combos that are possible, but a big chunk of the core uses of hacking doesn't use stat + skill.

If they didn't have the skill, I wouldn't let them do some of the more complicated hacking actions. If they don't have the skill, they have an average level of knowledge, which for hacking would extend not much farther than brute force password entry.

You'd lose out on all direct interface. So, if that Mainframe is hardwired, it is Att+Skill.

If you say a hack who is default has average knowledge and thus limit him don't you need to work all default in the same

Even with direct interface you can still default to logic and have 8 dice which about what you would if you had skill at 4 and programs at 4 and logic at 4. It still seems like you would be better off defaulting on logic.

If you say a hacker who is defaulting has average knowledge and thus limit him don't you need to work all default in the same

Even with direct interface you can still default to logic and have 8 dice which about what you would if you had skill at 4 and programs at 4 and logic at 4. It still seems like you would be better off defaulting on logic.

If you say a hacker who is defaulting has average knowledge then limit him don't you need to work all default in the same

Even with direct interface you can still default to logic and have 8 dice which about what you would if you had skill at 4 and programs at 4 and logic at 4. It still seems like you would be better off defaulting on logic.

If you say a hacker who is defaulting has average knowledge then limit him don't you need to work all default the same

Even with direct interface you can still default to logic and have 8 dice which about what you would if you had skill at 4 and programs at 4 and logic at 4. It still seems like you would be better off defaulting on logic.

If you say a hacker who is defaulting has average knowledge then limit him don't you need to work all default the same for all skills

Even with direct interface you can still default to logic and have 8 dice which about what you would if you had skill at 4 and programs at 4 and logic at 4. It still seems like you would be better off defaulting on logic.

Sorry, user error

House rule:

Logic+Skill limited by programme, Defaulting is logic+skill limit determined by gamemaster (usually 1)

Lets take your example.

We'll call your Hacker Logisto
He has Logic of 9, augmented.
He has no actual computer skill, but he does think like a computer.
He bought exploit 5.

We'll call mine Homogeneous
He has a Logic of 5
He has a Hacking of 5. He may not think like a computer, but he understands them.
Because specializations are cheaper than grass, we'll say he has one in Exploit.
He bought Exploit 5.

They both try to hack the same node.
Logisto rolls 8(Log-1)+Exploit 5. This results in 13 dice
Homogeneous rolls 7(Hacking 5+2 Spec) + Exploit 5. This results in 12 dice.
This would result in 10 dice with no specialization.

Then they both try to hack the same wired mainframe by exploiting access.
Logisto rolls 8(Log-1). This results in 8 dice.
Homogeneous rolls 7(Hacking 5+2Spec) + 5 Logic. This results in 12 dice
This would result in 10 dice with no specialization.

Now, I am not saying that the idea of a Logic machine holds no merit. But I think I would prefer the balanced guy.

I have an additional house rule that further restricts the number of hits to "skill+1" on certain skills (all logic based skills, knowledge skills . . , skills where skill is critical, not shooting, dodging and so on)
Furthermore: Attributes are 5 x new grade grade.

Serbitar, keep writing those house rules of yours, and you'll just be writing a new edition for your group.

The thread asked for my solution . . . and it really isnt a huge change are makes things much more complicated. And by the way: SHP 1.8 is pretty much it. No huge changes in the future.

Shadowmeet if your going to talk about balance you have to include the other computer and hacking skills not just hacking.

For complicated things like Hacking I'd say it might have a larger penalty than the normal defaulting -1 DP. Hacking isn't one of those things you just pick up and can be good at. Even for a genius its going to require some back knowledge and experience.

serbitars houserule is extremely valid in this case, it doesn't make any kind of sense that a slackjawed logic one char is an equal hacker when compared to a leading MENSA member with logic 8...


I'm using it as well.

I say in general the defaulting rule are a little to easy.

I also use the logic + skill houserule. the canon rules are asinine.

As wierd as seribitar's house rules can be (no offense serb), this one really does make way more sense than the way they're written in the main book. Where the program limits the number of successes that can be rolled on a logic+skill roll.

I still like the Program+Skill.
But we use Logic*2 to determine the number of rerolls on continuing tests.

That a nice spin, definitely bring logic back into use.

I was thinking about the whole default to logic when you don't have the hacking or computing skill and had a look in my book.

The way I read it you couldn't default to logic when using a program. The dice pool is your skill and the program rating and I don't think substituting your logic for your skill is in the spirit of the defaulting rules.

For those people that complain I'm using a different set of rules for defaulting in this circumstance I'd like to point out that in all other defaulting situations you're rolling attribute+skill, while when hacking using programs you're using program rating+skill. so you're already using a different system. Consequently I think that if someone tries to use a computer or hack without the skill they just get the program rating dice.

The only other way to resolve it is to completely change the rules and use logic+skill+program rating. I wouldn't personally do this as a dedicated hacker starting character would be rolling something like 13 or 14 dice on every matrix test, more if they specialised in one particular area.

The weird thing about defaulting generally is that the way it's written, when you default on a skill, you roll its linked attribute minus 1. Regardless of what attribute was called for in the roll originally. So, by that rule, defaulting to Logic when hacking would mean that your program has no bearing on the roll.

That's the rule as written, as I understand it.

I don't play it that way.

Now, because I don't have a lock of hacking going on in my game, it's not too big a deal what I choose to do with this. But I decided that it made more sense to default to the program rating. Hell, I default to whatever attribute is being rolled, normally, rather than always the linked attribute.

It certain makes sense to default program+skill but the att+skill unifies the game mechanics better. It would have been nice for them to add that simple sentence.

Thanks for the input.