Hi all,

I got to thinking about the differences between a real face-to-face meeting with a MRJ and a virtual one.

In the real-world, you can start running a search as MRJ is yammering away and unless you are using AR gloves MRJ probably won't have a clue since you'd be using mental commands. So does the same thing happen in VR as AR or are your VR actions obvious to those present with you?

I suppose I am thinking that issuing commands and launching programs would require some "physical" VR action like reaching for your utility belt, opening a briefcase, etc. (Pika-SearchBot I choose you!) to start using programs or issuing commands.

But is this really what is required or can all this be happening "behind" your VR presence mentally as my AR example?

Any thoughts are welcome.

Thanks,

~GTT

it depends on the analyze app that MRJ is running i guess.

sure, you can make it totaly obvious and broadcast your every action with graphics and all.

but if you want to do it quiet, it should not be to hard, unless the analyze that MRJ is using picks up the datatraffic, that your persona is now generating, and trows up some graphics of its own to get MRJ's attention.

allso, data search isnt a single action that then goes quiet of into the VR night. its a ongoing action with a treshold to meet.

therefor i would say that it needs atleast part of your attention, so a smart MRJ may pick the signals that your slighty distracted.

now, if you use a search equiped agent instead...

... if you use an agent instead, you better hope MRJ's Analyze REALLY sucks, or he might just take offense when he sees the little thing scuttle away on his data trail ... just enough to get you geeked.

It's usually a bad idea to do something like this WHILE meeting - before or after is fine, and everyone expects it anyway

But for concealing what you (or your agent) is doing, it would be his Analyze vs. your (or your Agent's) Stealth.

Remember that the Persona is only a projection of the Comlinks processing power. Furthermore, you can access multiple matrix sites at once.

SO the Johnson has only the usual measures (by keeping his stuff secure) to find out that you are checking him. Of course, you shouldnt make the mistake to launch an agent right in the node you are in with the Johnson . . .

As Serbitar hints, it depends on which of your persona copies does the searching - if it's the one in the node with the J, it's quite obvious if you don't use your stealth program ... if you VR into another of your persona copies, just patching through audio and video fronm the J-meet, that icon might seem a little distracted in the worst case, but he could not see you doing anything.

If it's only Searching Data you want, there should be no problem with MRJ seeing you do so though - except you wanted to "research" him and his data trail instead, which unfortunately, also would have to be done from the node you're meeting with him ... though you could always try to sneak in another copy of your persona, twice the fun

As a rule of thumb I would say: Once can only see actions that take place in the same node. I f you are searching the matrix, your datatrail from comlink to the matrix does not affect the node you are in and can not be seen. If you are interacting with something in the node, your data trail goes from comlink to this node and it can be observed in this node.

Note that if your persona is in a node, you are not. Its only a projection of you that is relaying all the information it gets to you. There is absolutley no need to send any information about waht you are doing from your brain to your comlink, to your persona which is in the node with the Johnson, soit can be observed tehre, and tehn to the desired location (database, whatever). You simply send the instructions from your brain, to your comlink, to the place where you want the to take effect (data base, whatever).

Just in case, an example :

You're chatting with MRJ in whatever note you met, and want to start a search in a way he doesn't notice.
You could do this using the same persona copy that you use to talk with him, but he would notice unless your Stealth won against his Analyze, and if you wanted to get to the data, he'd obviously notice your leaving the node. Not a good idea.

So, you start a new persona copy in your homenode (inside your commlink), patch through audio and video signal from the MRJ meet (as you don't want to miss up on things) and start your data search from there. Nobody notices.


Now say, you wanted to take risks and be a little more curious than you should, wanting a shot at the J's data trail.
As above you just could try to fool him and try from your meet persona ... wrong move, chummer.

So, again, you start a new persona copy and use that to hack into the node you're already meeting MRJ in. While still chatting wigh him nicely through your original persona, your second persona, stealthed and happy, starts trailing the J home.
Hell, you could even use a whole different icon on each of the personas, and spoof their datatrail so nobody ever has a chance to know they all belong to you.


For Matrix visibility in general : you can see any Action of any Matrix Icon in the same Node that you can see, that is, that you won an Analyze vs. Stealth test against (well, if it's not stealthed, you can usualy see it). You can even tell what it does as winning the test means your Analyze noting any interaction of the Icon with the Node or other Icons and shows them to you using whatever iconography you prefer ... or is forced on it (by Reality Filters or Sculpted Systems or other Icon's Stealth program )

Ok I think I've found the answer I am looking for on SR4.228 in the "Virtual Reality" section in the last paragraph: "VR users can access multiple nodes simultaneously just like AR users (see Pg.218)."

Basically, you can open multiple connections without disrupting your other connections and since your Persona is present in each new connection, each is independant of the others.

So, I can chat with MRJ, open another connection and start my search running there. The simplest analogy I can think of is like taking on the phone and doing something else, since the other end can't really "see" the real you or what you're doing.

Well, no, I'm pretty sure a new connection starts you back in your home node, you can't just have it spawn whereever you want. If you have some Hyperlink-equivalent then you can go there as soon as you spawn in your homenode, provided you can log on to that node as a normal (registered) user. As a Hacker/TM, you'll have to re-hack into anywhere you want to go normally, so it's not quite as easy for Joe Shadowrunner and his applications for the Matrix as it his for Jimmy Wageslave.
Think of your home node as a customized version of your prefered Internet Portal site, with whatever links, news, search engines and entertainment offers you want directly at your Fingertips, just one Log-on-to-host-Action away.

Of course, all of your persona copies share a single damage track ('didn't think I'd have to mention that) and program load (as programs are not part of the persona but run on the commlink), but everything else like data trail and iconography can change (rather, be changed) between different persona copies.

But, yes, you're right, much depends on the GM for the moment, as the matrix rules contain just enough meat so they can be used at all, and much is speculation until Matrix 4. In fact, the best despription of using the matrix in SR4 I've seen yet wasn't in any official product, but in Serbitar's Guide to the Matrix ... (btw, big thanks to you, Serbitar !)

and i avoid said guide as i think some of the ideas serbitar have presented here on the forum is just silly...

diffrent games, diffrent styles.

If you have any comments, please send them to me, I am always interested in constructive input. Especially to the parts that could be silly and need improvement.

@Phobos
Thanks for the props.

well from what i see here on the forum, a full on rethink would be in order...

but thats just opinion. your game, your rules.

Well, I was talking about constructive criticism . . .

You know, the thing with "what, why, and how to make it better".

let me put it this way then, my view of SR4 matrix and your view of SR4 matrix are like cats and dogs...

or atleast thats the impression i have. and yes, this time i have even looked at your pdf...

for me, being constructive would be to toss said pdf out the window...

Ah well, have fun writing your own stuff then.

im sorry that i was as totaly offensive as i was.

its not that i dont see the work you have put into the pdf.

im just worried that people seems to lately pass it of as a kind of canon, when its just one persons interpetation of the rules. a interpetation that can off target compared to any info that will later on show up in either a faq on srrpg.com or unwired whenever it gets released.